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Ft. Wayne?

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Old
02-07-2012, 05:44 PM
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Ft. Wayne?

http://www.juniorhockey.com/news/new...?news_id=74892

Quote:
I think it is fair to say that the AHL's Oklahoma experiment has been a serious failure. Was it the loss of their biggest Central Hockey League rivals in Wichita and Tulsa or the NBA? Either way, what was once the jewel of minor professional hockey may turn into something else entirely? We are hearing rumors of a possible Edmonton Oilers partnership with the owners of the CHL's Ft Wayne Komets to bring the AHL to Indiana.

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02-07-2012, 05:55 PM
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If the oilers were smart they would sell the franchise to the Frankes and get out of the AHL business.

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02-07-2012, 06:57 PM
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Ft Wayne has a good fan base and a right sized arena at 10,500.

Can they afford AHL prices? Would the Frankes go for a union league? Would the team be better off in Indy?

Ft Wayne is 3 hours east of Chicago, 3 hours west of Cleveland and 3 hours south of Grand Rapids. That is good or bad, depending on your point of view. If they join the AHL, maybe Rochester changes conferences or Charlotte changes divisions.

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02-07-2012, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
Ft Wayne has a good fan base and a right sized arena at 10,500.

Can they afford AHL prices? Would the Frankes go for a union league? Would the team be better off in Indy?

Ft Wayne is 3 hours east of Chicago, 3 hours west of Cleveland and 3 hours south of Grand Rapids. That is good or bad, depending on your point of view. If they join the AHL, maybe Rochester changes conferences or Charlotte changes divisions.
CHL is a union league.

Ft. Wayne was in the old IHL for awhile. I think they could afford the prices but I think Michael Franke isn't sure if he could make money, or so people claim.

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02-07-2012, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
CHL is a union league.

Ft. Wayne was in the old IHL for awhile. I think they could afford the prices but I think Michael Franke isn't sure if he could make money, or so people claim.
Yeah, like 1952 to 1999. I didn't look it up, but you get the idea.

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02-07-2012, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
Yeah, like 1952 to 1999. I didn't look it up, but you get the idea.
I forget why they bailed before the league ceased operations.

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02-08-2012, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post

Then why doesn't he remark that the AHL experiments in Albany, Springfield, Abbotsford, and Binghamton are failures and those teams need to move? They all have lower attendance than OKC. And not far ahead are Rockford, a former UHL success story, and Worcester, who is in the second incarnation in the AHL and drawing no better than before.

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02-08-2012, 08:55 AM
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Binghamton is not a failure. Their attendance figure may be low, but the arena holds under 5000 per game. I wouldn't call an AHL team that averages above 70% capacity a failure.

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02-08-2012, 12:10 PM
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Seems like we have another Hutch on our hands in a different thread.

This individual claims that the Oilers do not own their AHL affiliate and when the Oilers moved their AHL franchise to OKC that "they moved their AHL affiliation to the Barons, who are owned by Prodigal (Bob Funk Jr and company)".

I have tried to explain that the Oilers own the franchise, moved it to OKC and Prodigal Hockey LLC operates the business operations of the franchise. The Oilers receive a fee from Prodigal in exchange for Prodigal receiving any ticket, merchandise, advertising, etc revenue. However, this individual doesn't see it that way and is indignant that Prodigal Hockey LLC owns the Barons.

But, this raises an interesting point. If Prodigal is paying a fee to the Oilers and the Oilers don't make a dime (or lose a dime in this case) on the business side, why would the Oilers consider moving the franchise? The only reason to consider moving would be if they were losing money in OKC.

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02-08-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Seems like we have another Hutch on our hands in a different thread.

This individual claims that the Oilers do not own their AHL affiliate and when the Oilers moved their AHL franchise to OKC that "they moved their AHL affiliation to the Barons, who are owned by Prodigal (Bob Funk Jr and company)".

I have tried to explain that the Oilers own the franchise, moved it to OKC and Prodigal Hockey LLC operates the business operations of the franchise. The Oilers receive a fee from Prodigal in exchange for Prodigal receiving any ticket, merchandise, advertising, etc revenue. However, this individual doesn't see it that way and is indignant that Prodigal Hockey LLC owns the Barons.

But, this raises an interesting point. If Prodigal is paying a fee to the Oilers and the Oilers don't make a dime (or lose a dime in this case) on the business side, why would the Oilers consider moving the franchise? The only reason to consider moving would be if they were losing money in OKC.
Or if the Oilers are losing less than what they were in their other affiliations (Springfield). Since we do not see the NHL teams financials, nor the AHL teams either, both could be making money (or losing less money) than they were prior to the arrangement. Attendance figures do not necessarily equate to if a team is profitable or not. I have heard the Wolves lose money even though they draw quite well. Why is this? High arena rent, they own their own practice facility, and they get zero from the concessions and parking at the arena.

A team drawing half as many fans can make more if they get. lets say, half the parking and 25% of the concessions and pay $50,000 a year for arena rent.

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02-08-2012, 01:43 PM
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So what you are saying is affiliation fee could be < than expenses related to hockey operations ?

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02-08-2012, 01:54 PM
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I am just saying we have no idea what the arrangement is. For all we know, Edmonton pays a fee to Prodigal to run the operations and they take on everything else.

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02-08-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
I am just saying we have no idea what the arrangement is. For all we know, Edmonton pays a fee to Prodigal to run the operations and they take on everything else.
It's certainly possible, but doesn't change the fact that the Oilers own the franchise.

BTW, I see you are selling some jerseys. $600 for a one game wonder of Garrett Burnett?

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02-08-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
It's certainly possible, but doesn't change the fact that the Oilers own the franchise.

BTW, I see you are selling some jerseys. $600 for a one game wonder of Garrett Burnett?
Try finding any of those things anywhere anymore!!!

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02-08-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
Try finding any of those things anywhere anymore!!!
With how soft the jersey market is, I don't think you will find much demand for a one game wonder of a player like Bambi.

The question is, how badly do you want to move it.

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02-08-2012, 02:34 PM
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I think they should add a game worn forum here!!!!

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02-08-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
I forget why they bailed before the league ceased operations.
The Komets were below the IHL average in attendance, even though they were drawing 6K+ a game. They were getting their brains bashed in by Detroit, Grand Rapids etc on and off the ice. The IHL payrolls were pretty high. You can only get so many dollars out of 8K seats.

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02-09-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
Then why doesn't he remark that the AHL experiments in Albany, Springfield, Abbotsford, and Binghamton are failures and those teams need to move? They all have lower attendance than OKC. And not far ahead are Rockford, a former UHL success story, and Worcester, who is in the second incarnation in the AHL and drawing no better than before.
Albany has been in the AHL for 21 seasons, Binghamton for 30, and Springfield for over 70. These are AHL experiments?

Who cares about absolute attendance when business model is what makes a franchise sustainable?

Anyway, if you are worried about the Barons I would not take this article too seriously...it is riddled with holes. A few I can mention:

1) Phoenix is not rumored to be moving to Portland. Seattle and Quebec are the oft-mentioned destinations. See the Business of Hockey forum on this site.

2) Balsillie has been out of the hunt for an NHL team for over two years now. And it is not likely the Sabres who would object now that Golisano is gone, but rather the Leafs.

3) Fort Wayne (along with several other CHL teams) was reported to be looking at the ECHL, not the AHL. See the ECHL forum on this site. In any event, the author does not have a specific reason why he thinks the Barons are a failure...he just says so.

4) Wheeling is not rumored to be in flux...they are in flux. The Brooks Brothers put them up for sale recently. Again, check the ECHL forum.

So, in general, the article is pretty dodgy. I think OKC will be fine. No reason to lash out at the eastern teams anyway...

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02-09-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Albany has been in the AHL for 21 seasons, Binghamton for 30, and Springfield for over 70. These are AHL experiments?

Who cares about absolute attendance when business model is what makes a franchise sustainable?

Anyway, if you are worried about the Barons I would not take this article too seriously...it is riddled with holes. A few I can mention:

1) Phoenix is not rumored to be moving to Portland. Seattle and Quebec are the oft-mentioned destinations. See the Business of Hockey forum on this site.

2) Balsillie has been out of the hunt for an NHL team for over two years now. And it is not likely the Sabres who would object now that Golisano is gone, but rather the Leafs.

3) Fort Wayne (along with several other CHL teams) was reported to be looking at the ECHL, not the AHL. See the ECHL forum on this site. In any event, the author does not have a specific reason why he thinks the Barons are a failure...he just says so.

4) Wheeling is not rumored to be in flux...they are in flux. The Brooks Brothers put them up for sale recently. Again, check the ECHL forum.

So, in general, the article is pretty dodgy. I think OKC will be fine. No reason to lash out at the eastern teams anyway...
No team will be in Seatle by next October though, which PHX won't be around next yr I bet.

True about FW but that size of their arena and all makes them special. The AHL would like to have them I bet if they could.

True but wheeling COULD be bought.

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02-09-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Albany has been in the AHL for 21 seasons, Binghamton for 30, and Springfield for over 70. These are AHL experiments?

Who cares about absolute attendance when business model is what makes a franchise sustainable?
First of all, none of those cities have had the AHL continuously through that time. That's like saying Ottawa has had an NHL team since the turn of the century.

The second thing is those cities have worse attendance than the Barons, which he indicates is a reason they are a failure. Third, if you read my posts, we have no idea what the arrangement is so we do not know if he is making money with the current attendance or arrangement. Lastly, attendance does matter regardless of the business model. The business model only changes the level needed to make a profit.

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02-10-2012, 02:07 AM
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The source of the article was a enough for me to dismiss it.

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02-10-2012, 04:57 AM
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Same source, New article about OKC and Ft. Wayne (HERE)

the key paragraph:


"Oklahoma City fans, team management, city officials, and the Barons' mascot want to believe that everything is okie-dokie with the Edmonton Oilers, and maybe that is the case. Sources within the National Hockey League are saying that the Ft. Wayne market would be interesting to just about everyone and that the Oilers' management have an extremely tight grasp on what is happening on the minor professional hockey landscape. If the Oilers are able to make a deal with Ft Wayne and the Frankes that makes sense for both groups, say good-bye to the Barons."

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02-10-2012, 07:57 AM
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Fort Wayne is the 2nd most successful minor league hockey market in the US?

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02-10-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Fort Wayne is the 2nd most successful minor league hockey market in the US?
Depends. Are you talking in like attendance or on the ice? For most of their championships they were a BIG FISH on a SMALL POND

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02-10-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arlingtonway View Post
Same source, New article about OKC and Ft. Wayne (HERE)

the key paragraph:


"Oklahoma City fans, team management, city officials, and the Barons' mascot want to believe that everything is okie-dokie with the Edmonton Oilers, and maybe that is the case. Sources within the National Hockey League are saying that the Ft. Wayne market would be interesting to just about everyone and that the Oilers' management have an extremely tight grasp on what is happening on the minor professional hockey landscape. If the Oilers are able to make a deal with Ft Wayne and the Frankes that makes sense for both groups, say good-bye to the Barons."
you're forgetting 2 major points here

Fort Wayne had their opportunity back when our league bought out the IHL, arlington, they chose not to and imho, are still an outlaw franchise, just for that reason, why would the Oilers be duped by Lyle Abraham, see the fiasco involving Toronto's Ricoh Coliseum, the abrupt move of the franchise in August of '04, the year of the lockout in the NHL, After the master schedule was released, mind you, and then the whole issue w/ Prodigal shutting down its successful franchise in the CHL, one of the strongest model franchises in that league.

both articles are misinformed and should be dismissed on merit....

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