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2012 WHL Bantam Draft Thread

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Old
02-11-2012, 09:25 AM
  #26
PokeCheck101
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I watched about 17 min of the Ronning video. Thanks for adding that Western.

- Perimeter player, not uncommon for smaller players
- Several drive by's the puck carrying player from other team; Without even getting a piece of the player or puck... I've seen several small players be effective at that
- Giveaway at defensive blue line
- Gets bumped off puck easy
- Out of position on wing, they had him on both wings and at centre... Give him a home
- Out of position on PK, down below hash marks in slot as a frwd (?)
- Forced puck during PP
- Not alot of gumption on the back check but doesn't have to be when they play a one and sometimes TWO wing high system
- Got caught by back pressure in NZ... Possibly near end of shift though (?)

Flip side

- Always moving and engaged
- Finds the quiet zones well
- Good shot, quick release
- Set up nice goal on PP with a saucer; smart

Just my observations folks, on a partial clip of one game. He can have all the training he wants but so do about a 100 other kids just in BC. Never mind Alta, SK, Man. The other team started well positionally then seemed to fall apart. I know nothing about them though but look out of condition.

Pretty easy to be a decent to above average team when you play a two wing high system religiously the whole game. Gives your D men time/space, stretches out their D and viola it's back in the opposition end. Also promotes lazy back checking. One other subtle note that I see, and I see it alot. If you're last 5 strides of your shift is of you sauntering to the box for a line change, that's what I'm going to remember. Personal pet peeve.

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02-11-2012, 01:33 PM
  #27
WesternHockeyScout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopScoutingDepo View Post
Hey western hockey scout.what do you think of a goalie like Alex kong who left bwc to be no1 for burnaby minor.He is a great goalie but has maybe the worst defence
In tier1.does he shine more as #1 on burnaby minor or as Mcbrides backup on bwc
Get the ice time. Have some fun. See the shots. In my mind it's a no brainer.

On the other hand, Burnaby gets a ton of exposure and plays a schedule that will challenge any goalie. Good things to have in a draft year.

I guess it really depends on what is involved being McBride's backup. Is it a platoon 50/50 arrangement? Does Kong get strictly the soft starts? How deep in the shadows are you? It can be a big negative in a draft year if you don't have the confidence of your coaches.

If his role on Burnaby was unclear, or iif he was a clear #2 then I would think Alex and his family made the right choice. Goaltenders mature later than skaters and are notoriously diffuclt to assess at this age. Also, playing on a winning team is less important to a goaltender. In fact, it's more beneficial to be peppered. Patrick Roy didn't play on a winning team till Juniors.

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02-11-2012, 01:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Pretty easy to be a decent to above average team when you play a two wing high system religiously the whole game. Gives your D men time/space, stretches out their D and viola it's back in the opposition end. Also promotes lazy back checking.
That's a great point Poke. Getting back to the Musil conversation. His sauntering backcheck could absolutely be a result of the team system, so it's importnat not to jump to conclusions on his work ethic ... especially when his upside in other areas is so tremendous.

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02-11-2012, 01:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
All for moving the WHL draft back a year and then the players that are good enough can play immediately as well.
Could take it a step further and offer a WHL sponsored Western Canadian Wide Midget Minor single birth year category after bantams, so they can be scouted in their draft year playing each other exclusively.

That would bbe a challenge for sparsely populated areas, but at that age many rural kids are billetting for Midget AAA anyways.

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02-11-2012, 02:45 PM
  #30
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Yes, but when he moves to the next level will he have the will to back check when they are playing other systems? Teams will not change to a two wing high system just for one player.

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02-11-2012, 02:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Oilersfan21 View Post
Yes, but when he moves to the next level will he have the will to back check when they are playing other systems? Teams will not change to a two wing high system just for one player.
What I am saying is, he might be a FANTASTIC backcheker, and we just aren't seeing it becuase of the system they are playing. He may be being asked to stay high

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02-11-2012, 06:50 PM
  #32
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Fair enough

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Old
02-11-2012, 09:44 PM
  #33
timekeep
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Alberta has the 15 year old AAA division but it is not that strong as best players are in Major Midget. It is a good league for someone to jump up from AA to AAA and get seen if they have a great year though.

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02-11-2012, 09:52 PM
  #34
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WHL is behind the times with this. It should be a midget draft, not bantam. I think scouts will be able to better gauge a player in his first year of Major Midget as opposed to his last year of bantam.

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02-11-2012, 10:33 PM
  #35
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WHLs draft is 14

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Old
02-11-2012, 11:16 PM
  #36
timekeep
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Maybe the OP should have said first year midget than 15 year old. Majority of players are 15 by the time they are drafted. But they are drafted in their 15 year old year. Don't go by hockey season. We can make an argument either way.

The point is that the majority of people think that the WHL needs to move it back a year and be the same as the other two leagues.

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02-12-2012, 09:20 AM
  #37
PokeCheck101
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To me, from watching the Ronning video I believe he is a victim of his own teams system. He obviously is a good skater but I'm just not seeing it enough. 21 min should be long enough to make that assessment. I believe the 2 wing promotes lazy play. Not just from him either, there are others guilty of it too.

Western, it is a very fair question to ask: Is the player lazy, a-motivational or is he/she a victim of their system. If one recognizes they are a victim of their system then focus has to shift to other game situations AWAY from the puck because after all back check is a matter of will AWAY from the puck. Good coaching can influence play away from the puck. So other things I would consider, just an opinion, are: PK awareness (is he engaging and winning key battles in his area of responsibility, while on the wing is he supportive on the defensive side of the puck in his own end (how much effort is he putting into not leaving line mates high and dry), driving by a puck carrying opponent (rather than stopping dead, engaging, hustling back into play). As I mentioned before too, it may sound silly but that coasting for the last 15-20 feet before line change (particularly in a situation where a potential attack is mounting) really bothers me.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:22 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternHockeyScout View Post
What I am saying is, he might be a FANTASTIC backcheker, and we just aren't seeing it becuase of the system they are playing. He may be being asked to stay high
I totally agree. So as I mentioned before, I believe any scout worth his/her salt can look for other areas to make a fair assessment on work ethic. That's all back check is, good ol fashion work ethic.

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02-12-2012, 09:09 PM
  #39
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On top of letting the players mature another year to try to help assure that you are not just draft early bloomers, a 16 year old draft allows you to scout a season of the players playing against older, bigger, stronger players in midget. This allows the scout the ability to more accurately project if that player will be able to play as a 17 or 18 year old against 19 and 20 year olds in the Whl. So often some kids who grow early dominate in bantam mostly based on their size and strength advantage. Take that away by waiting a year and things get a whole lot clearer.

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02-12-2012, 09:38 PM
  #40
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Leave it Alone

I keep reading comments of a better way for the WHL to conduct it's draft. I hear many reasons but really wonder about the motives of those making these comments. Did your kid get overloooked, did the scouts slight your team, are the scouts rating kids differently than you would, did some undrafted kids make it, what could it be that outsiders are telling the insiders how to run their business. SO WHAT IF MISTAKES ARE MADE, who cares. If no mistakes were made then the kids could just pack it in after their draft as the die would be cast. The WHL teams should be left to run THEIR business as they see fit.

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02-13-2012, 12:45 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCub View Post
I keep reading comments of a better way for the WHL to conduct it's draft. I hear many reasons but really wonder about the motives of those making these comments. Did your kid get overloooked, did the scouts slight your team, are the scouts rating kids differently than you would, did some undrafted kids make it, what could it be that outsiders are telling the insiders how to run their business. SO WHAT IF MISTAKES ARE MADE, who cares. If no mistakes were made then the kids could just pack it in after their draft as the die would be cast. The WHL teams should be left to run THEIR business as they see fit.
The only advantage for the WHL with this draft age group is that the teams can lock up players a year earlier and eliminating their NCAA status if a kid plays or signs with a team. Why wouldn't a team want to know more about a kid a year older and have him play immediately if good enough?

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02-13-2012, 10:00 AM
  #42
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Why wouldn't a team want to know more about a kid a year older and have him play immediately if good enough?

Teams don't gain any drafting advantage over other teams by waiting a year. Sounds like STATS CAN, give me more info and I can make a better decision.

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02-13-2012, 01:11 PM
  #43
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All this talk and not one mention of Estephan from SSAC? Kid has 100pts! On 199 total team goals.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:35 PM
  #44
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Alberta Goalies

What the thinking on top AMBHL goalies ?
I've heard Sawcheko, Brody, Brewin, Sharp but haven't seen many northern games....

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:37 PM
  #45
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WHL scouts don't make anywhere near what Stats Can employees do (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/employment-...mplois-eng.htm)
so why not make their jobs a little easier? Most would rather spend most of their time watching midget hockey, and obviously have to do juggling act right now because scouting midget IS as important as scouting bantams right now. Most do it for love (of the game) not money, that seperates them from most Stats Can employees (and most of society for that matter).

It just doesn't make sense to draft bantams when these kids are all going to have to play midget hockey anyway. A policy that started just because the league was losing a few kids to the NCAA strikes me as some sort of inferiority complex, the O and the Q don't draft bantams and they're dealing with exactly the same scenario. It's not like the dub has stopped losing kids to the NCAA based on this policy, they probably should have given up on it as a failed plan the year after Toews went to UND.

And what about the kids? Just because the NCAA is a hypocritical org. who recruit kids at 14 and will declare any rival a pro league if at all possible doesn't mean you should compete with them. If anything more reason not to, it doesn't really do the WHL any good at all to have a bunch of kids out there who signed after a great bantam season and then find (at 17/18) they aren't good enough for the dub, but also can't sign that free ride to a Div 2 NCAA school either.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:58 PM
  #46
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Andy, you are missing the point, the STATS CAN comment refers to people, which seems to include you, that never have enough information to make a decision. Give me more info, give me another year to do my evaluation, on and on and on.

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Old
02-13-2012, 05:19 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCub View Post
Why wouldn't a team want to know more about a kid a year older and have him play immediately if good enough?

Teams don't gain any drafting advantage over other teams by waiting a year. Sounds like STATS CAN, give me more info and I can make a better decision.
exactly more info better draft results . We aren't saying anyone gets an advantage. OHL & QMHL have better results with their top picks turning out unlike the WHL where at least 50% of 1st rounders in the last 10 years don't live up to their bantam stats that got them drafted.When you invest your time and money into something do you not try to find out as much as possible first. If not I have some land to sell you lol

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Old
02-13-2012, 11:16 PM
  #48
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Yes my point exactly, when I invest time and money into something I do try to find out as much as I reasonably can. Unless you are an owner of a WHL club, which I doubt, it seems to me that you are more than willing to tell those who have money tied up in the WHL how to do their business. I think they are big boys and can spend their time and money as they see fit.

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02-13-2012, 11:56 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Calamus View Post
All this talk and not one mention of Estephan from SSAC? Kid has 100pts! On 199 total team goals.
Great player obviuosly. As time moves on, skating & size I believe will become extremy problematic.

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Old
02-14-2012, 07:40 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Alybaba View Post
Great player obviuosly. As time moves on, skating & size I believe will become extremy problematic.
5'10" and 140lbs is not bad for a 15 year old kid.

If skating is an issue then that could hinder but based on points totals I'd like to know who his line mates are... He's not amassing all those points on his own (especially if you say skating is an issue). Do they have a few natural set up guys helping him? Start looking at those type players.

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