HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Dallas/Washington proposal:

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-08-2003, 08:35 AM
  #1
Ajacied
Remember #9
 
Ajacied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 23,190
vCash: 500
Dallas/Washington proposal:

Since the Stars have openly stated to be interested in Jaromir Jagr just a few weeks ago (I can't find the link so excuse me) and have repeatedly tried to persue him in the past, unfortunatly with no succes, I was wondering how much he would cost the Stars right now? Now with Jagr struggling, with him not fitting into the Caps organistion neither physicly nor financially and where he simply has no real future with and his tradevalue has reached an ultimate low point. Add that are maybe like 3 teams that can afford him and the Caps can't expect to land much in return.

Assuming the Stars are willing to eat and insert his salary into their payroll (obviously, they have some space left or else you wouldn't be interested, that, and they also managed to offer Derian Hatcher a $30 million deal so seems to me they have some kind of extra fund no one ever hears about).

To Washington:
- Vojtach Polak
- John Erskine
- Dallas Stars 1st round pick

To Dallas:
- Jaromir Jagr (35% paid for the next 2 seasons)
- Future considerations*

*: The Caps owe the Stars a 3rd round pick for every year he failes to reach ppg figures during the remainder of his contract years.

Why would the Caps do this? Well for starters, they lose Jagr and his fat contract which could already prove out to be a bonus and get an interesting package of youth in return.

John Erskine: Rugged and young blueliner is a poor man's Derian Hatcher, same cons, same pro's. Currently he is a 3rd pairing defenseman but can and should develop into a solid #4 when he hits his eventual upside.

Vojtack Polak: Stars top offensive prospect. Boom (Milan Hedjuk) or bust (the Czerkawski of 2002). Supreme sniping skills and has all the skills to be a star, his ego central attitude should mature over the years.

First round pick: Could become anywhere from 15th to 30th.

Why would the Stars do it? To add that winger they lack, a skilled forward that can keep up with Modano and takes a lot of pressure of his back.

Steve Ott - Mike Modano - Jaromir Jagr
Stu Barnes - Pierre Turgeon - Scott Young
Brenden Morrow - Jason Arnott - Bill Guerin
Antti Miettinen - Niko Kapanen - Jere Lehtinen

It's hard judging Jagr's current value..

Ajacied is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 08:41 AM
  #2
kacz
Registered User
 
kacz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,589
vCash: 500
If I was Washington I would take it and run, the Caps would dump a huge contract and get some cheap young talent in return. Plus the 1st rounder and Polak could turn out to be great players...

kacz is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 08:48 AM
  #3
Ozy_Flame
Registered User
 
Ozy_Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,173
vCash: 500
If I'm Washington, I say no dice. Jagr may not be the force he's been in the past, but I would certainly want a roster player forward if I'm to deal my first line right winger. The pick is nice, but that would leave the forward ranks much thinner. And with Semin in the lineup right now, I see no use for Vojtach Polak on the Caps.

Ozy_Flame is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 08:54 AM
  #4
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
If I'm Washington, I say no dice. Jagr may not be the force he's been in the past, but I would certainly want a roster player forward if I'm to deal my first line right winger. The pick is nice, but that would leave the forward ranks much thinner. And with Semin in the lineup right now, I see no use for Vojtach Polak on the Caps.
Yeah but they have to think of whether or not it is worth it to keep a 11 million dollar man for the next 5 years, who is atm distracted and a cancer for the team. *Maybe I'm offbase on the cancer comment but it is certainly the impression that I have been getting*.

Washington IMO takes this and laughs with glee. M=G I hope those futures are high.

Also, would that not put Dallas right behind Detroit in payroll. Around 76-77 mil? This puts Dallas in a bad finacial situation especially if a salary cap is put in place next year. Guerin 9 mil a year for how many more years? Modano 9.5 mil. for another year. Lehtinen at I believe 3.5., Jagr at 11 million for 5 years, Turgeon is high priced, Turco is at the 4.0 mil range for the next 3 years . I think it is just to much money, and the Stars can't feasibly do it, and still consider themselves fiscally responsible.

Enoch is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 09:18 AM
  #5
Ozy_Flame
Registered User
 
Ozy_Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,173
vCash: 500
Salary-wise, it only makes sense for one time. If we're going by dollar figures, then sure it's the most feasible choice for Washington.

However, the competitive side of the game cannot be neglected. Unless you're Marius Czerkawski, I see no GM simply dishing away their premier player for a handful of spare parts, which is what I see here. The only benefit is the first round pick, and even then that's in the bottom rung, closer to the 2nd rounders.

I understand the monetary concerns, but you can't simply disregard the considerable offensive power he brings to the team.

I liked the Lindros for Jagr rumors in the summer more. It just seemed to work for both teams.

Ozy_Flame is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 07:39 PM
  #6
bigeasy
Registered User
 
bigeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Yankee in South Ga.
Country: United States
Posts: 550
vCash: 500
then why has jagr been moved?

Dallas had/has any interest in Jagr they should offer a 2nd round pick in the 2006 entry draft and... nothing else. Washington is relieved of the obligation to pay Jagr is assinine salary, nothing more. I bet Washington would jump at the chance. Addition by subtraction.



if this were tha case ahy wasn't jagr traded along time ago. the caps don't want to keep jagr but they can. ted has the money(just added 2 new partners on top) just wants to make more.

bigeasy is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 07:45 PM
  #7
Ensane
EL GUAPO
 
Ensane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 15,404
vCash: 500
If I were the Caps, the thing that would kill it would be the whole eating 4 mil for the next two years while getting no proven commodities in return. I think if you're gonna ask Washington to pick up such a substantial amount of the tab, a guy like Morrow must be included in trade talks.

Polak and Erksine are both midlevel prospects (if you consider Erksine a prospect still), and the 1st rounder will prove to be a low one in all likelihood.

Add that with the fact that the Caps could potentially lose out on a few 3rd rounders here and there, and I say the Caps get burned a bit too much to allow them to accept this. I could see this being a starting offer, but one easily matched and upped by another team who might be in the hunt for Jagr.

Ensane is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 09:41 PM
  #8
The Hamburglar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,480
vCash: 500
The Caps would take it easily. Polak is a great prospect I think. If it wasn't for his attitude (inserted in his head by his agent), he would've went in the 1st round. Erskine is a tough d-man who can play in the NHL, and Washington is weak on D. Erskine would be their 4th d-man. The 1st (prolly 24-30th) is always good. And the Caps lose a gigantic headache. McPhee doesn't even have to think twice for this deal. 35% for two years is nothing considering Jagr is signed till 2011.

On the other hand, I don't know if Dallas would do this. Does it really make them that much better? They gain a headache and another huge long term salary. I think they improve the team on paper (obviously) but there are other factors where the Stars lose big on.

The Hamburglar is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 10:06 PM
  #9
I_r_1337
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 496
vCash: 500
as a caps fan...PLEAAAASE

I_r_1337 is offline  
Old
11-10-2003, 03:37 AM
  #10
Starsdude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,531
vCash: 500
Probably more like Jagr for Turgeon . Salary dump for salary dump.

Starsdude is offline  
Old
11-10-2003, 04:03 AM
  #11
btmarshall
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
As is well known, the Caps would trade Jagr for any deal offered right now.

- Jaromir Jagr (35% paid for the next 2 seasons)

That's the key element, though. If you can shave that percentage down, the Caps need no great players coming back. If a team insists on Washington eating a lot of contract, then I suspect the return in player value goes up.

Ideally, the Caps would like to trade Jagr and have to pay as little of the remaining contract as possible (player return is secondary), and 35% of the contract may be too high, I'm not sure. It could be that Leonsis would eat that. Maybe not. Hard to read the prevailing thoughts of both he and McPhee right now.

 
Old
11-10-2003, 04:13 AM
  #12
Ironchef Chris Wok*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Red Sox Nation
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Ironchef Chris Wok*
I have to agree w/ the previous poster.

The more salary Washington eats, the more valuable Jagr becomes.

Ironchef Chris Wok* is offline  
Old
11-10-2003, 05:17 AM
  #13
btmarshall
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
You know what, I rushed through that. I read it initailly as 35% for each year, not 35% for just the next two seasons.

For 35% over just the next two seasons, I think that Leonsis would definitely green light that deal. You might not even need to give up that much.

 
Old
11-10-2003, 07:09 AM
  #14
Frenzy1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
Salary-wise, it only makes sense for one time. If we're going by dollar figures, then sure it's the most feasible choice for Washington.

However, the competitive side of the game cannot be neglected. Unless you're Marius Czerkawski, I see no GM simply dishing away their premier player for a handful of spare parts, which is what I see here. The only benefit is the first round pick, and even then that's in the bottom rung, closer to the 2nd rounders.
This will make the Caps competitive BECAUSE, it would allow them to keep players like Gonchar and Kolzig and Lang. Then again, I am assuming that the Caps would have to trade one of these guys for financial reasons.

IMO, trading anyone of those players hurts far more then dropping that monkey Jagr.

Frenzy1 is offline  
Old
11-10-2003, 08:32 AM
  #15
txpd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,031
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG
The Caps would take it easily. Polak is a great prospect I think. If it wasn't for his attitude (inserted in his head by his agent), he would've went in the 1st round. Erskine is a tough d-man who can play in the NHL, and Washington is weak on D. Erskine would be their 4th d-man. The 1st (prolly 24-30th) is always good. And the Caps lose a gigantic headache. McPhee doesn't even have to think twice for this deal. 35% for two years is nothing considering Jagr is signed till 2011.

On the other hand, I don't know if Dallas would do this. Does it really make them that much better? They gain a headache and another huge long term salary. I think they improve the team on paper (obviously) but there are other factors where the Stars lose big on.
Washington's defense IS weak because have 3 or 4 Erskine's in the lineup every night. He plays 12:00 a night, 0 pts, 38 PIM's, -5 rating.
Is he really better than Jason Doig's 16:00 a night, 4 pts, 39 PIM's and a
0 rating. or Joel Kwiatkowski's 19:00 a night, 2 pts and a 0 plus minus rating....or John Gruden 13:00 a night, 1 goal, -2 rating?? It would appear that Erskine is playing on a better team and is at minimum no better than than those 3 guys are are just like Erskine. He has never played a full NHL season, like Doig, Kwiatkowski or Gruden. He is marginal, like Doig, Kwiatkowski, or Gruden. For the Caps defense to get better than weak they need someone good on defense. Erskine is no better than what the Caps have....just more of the same.

txpd is online now  
Old
11-10-2003, 07:19 PM
  #16
The Hamburglar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Washington's defense IS weak because have 3 or 4 Erskine's in the lineup every night. He plays 12:00 a night, 0 pts, 38 PIM's, -5 rating.
Is he really better than Jason Doig's 16:00 a night, 4 pts, 39 PIM's and a
0 rating. or Joel Kwiatkowski's 19:00 a night, 2 pts and a 0 plus minus rating....or John Gruden 13:00 a night, 1 goal, -2 rating?? It would appear that Erskine is playing on a better team and is at minimum no better than than those 3 guys are are just like Erskine. He has never played a full NHL season, like Doig, Kwiatkowski or Gruden. He is marginal, like Doig, Kwiatkowski, or Gruden. For the Caps defense to get better than weak they need someone good on defense. Erskine is no better than what the Caps have....just more of the same.
Those guys you listed are career minor leaguers. Heck, a couple of seasons ago Ottawa owned all those 3 and they were the #8,9 and 10th d-men. They have no upside and are liabilities.

On the other hand, Erskine has some upside and is younger than all those guys. He has some NHL experience and good size. I think he'd definately upgrade the Washington blueline.

The Hamburglar is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.