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Old
02-11-2012, 08:07 PM
  #101
BringBackStevens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Upgrading your blueline depth isn't like flushing dollars down the toilet. You aren't being rational.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Your analogy doesn't fit because that's not what I'm suggesting. There is nothing to be gained from flushing a dollar.

Hal Gill SHOULD be better than MAB or Gus. Therefore he SHOULD improve this team. That is what you'd be buying. That is why I don't want to pay much for it.

The rash, irresponsible, reckless, and wasteful move would be trading major assets and go "all-in"; because it certainly doesn't seem like we can take NYR or Boston in our current state. But it's not like we're sitting in the 8th seed right now with a bunch of grinders that happen to be having career years. We're in 4th for god's sake. We have offensive talent coming out of our butts. We have talent at goaltender if it ever decides it wants to show up. We have 4 defenseman who we've all seen play very well at times, but right now they are all lost (except for Kimmo). We are a good team, we just have a few holes. So I say, go ahead, make the minor move.

Hell, I'm not even one of the people clamoring to get MULTIPLE rentals. I am saying make ONE, minor move, for next to nothing, to improve this team.



Exactly.
It's flushing it down the toilet because whats the point of improving the team a tiny little bit when its still going to end up in the same end state as if we didnt get him. If you really think somebody like Gill is going to make some significant change in our chances to win a cup then I dont know what to tell you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
With these hindsight trades I feel you should list the actual players drafted.

Don't get me wrong Modry sucked but they got Geordie Wudrick. A player who will likely neven even skate on NHL ice.

The Gauthier trade was a little worse for us but still Shawn Matthias isn't looking like anything special. Cory Emmerton isn't much of a prospect. When you look at the picks around those guys the only player that was worth while was Lucic everyone else is pretty bad looking and there was nothing to imply we would have taken Lucic. We drafted Nodl shortly before Lucic and Bodrov a defender shortly after.

Occasionally the Flyers gave up a pick that ended up being a good player or at least close to a good player but a lot of those draft picks never panned out anyway.

Most of the time those mid to late round pick trades don't hurt a team because those rounds are so watered down and erratic.
Totally irrelevant. Who other teams picked is not important and the Flyers almost certainly would not have made the same picks

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02-11-2012, 08:13 PM
  #102
SolidSnakeUS
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This is my short list:

Methot
Grossman
Gill
Souray
Sbisa
Smid
Weber (pipe dream)
Suter (pipe dream)

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Old
02-11-2012, 08:20 PM
  #103
Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
It's flushing it down the toilet because whats the point of improving the team a tiny little bit when its still going to end up in the same end state as if we didnt get him. If you really think somebody like Gill is going to make some significant change in our chances to win a cup then I dont know what to tell you



Totally irrelevant. Who other teams picked is not important and the Flyers almost certainly would not have made the same picks
You aren't allowing for the possibility that trading for a deadline upgrade could have any positive impact this season or down the road. That's why I can't take your line of reasoning seriously.

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02-11-2012, 08:23 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
It's flushing it down the toilet because whats the point of improving the team a tiny little bit when its still going to end up in the same end state as if we didnt get him. If you really think somebody like Gill is going to make some significant change in our chances to win a cup then I dont know what to tell you
So that's the difference here. You have essentially quit on the season. I have not. I do not know that the team will "end up in the same end state". I do not think we will win the cup, but we are still a good team and could make a run. We made it into the playoffs on a SO 2 years ago. I don't think making a marginal improvement is a waste.

2 years ago we were trotting out Krajicek and Parent on the 3rd pairing and getting beat bad. So the top 4 had to play insane minutes. They would have killed for a Hal Gill 2 years ago. This year we're gonna be trotting out MAB and Gus and we could very well experience the same thing.

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02-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Totally irrelevant. Who other teams picked is not important and the Flyers almost certainly would not have made the same picks
Like I stated with the Gauthier thing when you look at some of these drafts a lot of the players taken around those picks are busts. Plus you can't look at the Flyers history and say they are better then other teams at picking. The Flyers have a laundry list of busts in the 2nd round and beyond.

Some kinda recent Flyers 2nd Round Picks.

- Pat Kavanagh
- Jean-Marc Pelletier
- Andreas Nodl
- Kevin Marshall
- Mike Ratchuk
- Denis Bodrov
- Ian Forbes
- Jason Beckett


I'm just saying you are really swinging blindly saying we would get top prospects with these picks... lol. I think 1990 was the last time we drafted successfully in the 2nd round.

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02-11-2012, 09:31 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
This is my short list:

Methot
Grossman
Gill
Souray
Sbisa
Smid
Weber (pipe dream)
Suter (pipe dream)
I've never seen anything impressive from Methot. Anyone from CBJ would be at the bottom of my list. I was actually pretty disturbed that Howson was in town today, and moreso that he and Holmgren apparently conversed...

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Old
02-11-2012, 09:37 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I've never seen anything impressive from Methot. Anyone from CBJ would be at the bottom of my list. I was actually pretty disturbed that Howson was in town today, and moreso that he and Holmgren apparently conversed...
Carle and a 1st for Carter

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02-11-2012, 09:43 PM
  #108
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At this point, I think I'd welcome Carter back with open arms. At least he gives you some two way presence down the middle. As it stands, Couturier is the only guy who gives you that. Giroux, Schenn, Talbot don't give that consistently, whereas Briere doesn't do it at all...

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02-11-2012, 09:47 PM
  #109
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Well, word is from several people I talk to (and Frank Sevralli also reported this), Carle is definitely in play. There's an impasse in contract negotiations and it's expected that Holmgren will deal Carle rather than lose him for nothing. From what I've heard, Minnesota and believe it or not, Chicago are greatly interested in Carle.

As well, Andrej Meszaros is expected to be moved this off season and that Winnipeg GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has recently contacted Holmgren and expressed interest in acquiring him when the off season rolls around (due to budgetary concerns in Winnipeg). Winnipeg is apparently offering up Mark Stuart in the off season.

Looks like Holmgren is going to retool the defense this off season and that depending on what he gets from the Carle deal and a possible Meszaros deal, the only guys who might be left next season to start will be Timonen and Coburn.

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02-11-2012, 09:49 PM
  #110
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If Mez and Carle are gone, prepare to see some crazy contracts for either Suter or Weber.

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02-11-2012, 09:52 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, word is from several people I talk to (and Frank Sevralli also reported this), Carle is definitely in play. There's an impasse in contract negotiations and it's expected that Holmgren will deal Carle rather than lose him for nothing. From what I've heard, Minnesota and believe it or not, Chicago are greatly interested in Carle.

As well, Andrej Meszaros is expected to be moved this off season and that Winnipeg GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has recently contacted Holmgren and expressed interest in acquiring him when the off season rolls around (due to budgetary concerns in Winnipeg). Winnipeg is apparently offering up Mark Stuart in the off season.

Looks like Holmgren is going to retool the defense this off season and that depending on what he gets from the Carle deal and a possible Meszaros deal, the only guys who might be left next season to start will be Timonen and Coburn.
I'd honestly be very surprised if either happen. I'd be very interested if it did though.

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02-11-2012, 09:53 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I've never seen anything impressive from Methot. Anyone from CBJ would be at the bottom of my list. I was actually pretty disturbed that Howson was in town today, and moreso that he and Holmgren apparently conversed...
Two words: Sami Pahlsson.

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02-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I'd honestly be very surprised if either happen. I'd be very interested if it did though.
It would definitely make a new and interesting turn for the team.

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02-11-2012, 10:52 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
If Mez and Carle are gone, prepare to see some crazy contracts for either Suter or Weber.
most likely the reason although i wouldnt be suprised if carle get's moved for a defensemen and for mez as well at the deadline, it will probably for lower cap vet defensemen or a rental and sign webber or sutter, it wont hurt us because if he helps us win a cup and wants too much they can spend it on webber or sutter, they have to cut cap space because they know pronger isnt comming back.

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Old
02-11-2012, 11:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Chicago are greatly interested in Carle.

.


HAHAHA @ Chicago...


HAHAHAAA !!!!


oh wait maybe i shouldnt laff till its a done deal.

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Old
02-11-2012, 11:41 PM
  #116
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Nick Kypreos @RealKyper Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Scratch another D off #NHL trading block. Hearing #Oilers Andy Sutton closing in on a new 1 year deal. Its believed to be in 1.75M range.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:00 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, word is from several people I talk to (and Frank Sevralli also reported this), Carle is definitely in play. There's an impasse in contract negotiations and it's expected that Holmgren will deal Carle rather than lose him for nothing. From what I've heard, Minnesota and believe it or not, Chicago are greatly interested in Carle.

As well, Andrej Meszaros is expected to be moved this off season and that Winnipeg GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has recently contacted Holmgren and expressed interest in acquiring him when the off season rolls around (due to budgetary concerns in Winnipeg). Winnipeg is apparently offering up Mark Stuart in the off season.

Looks like Holmgren is going to retool the defense this off season and that depending on what he gets from the Carle deal and a possible Meszaros deal, the only guys who might be left next season to start will be Timonen and Coburn.
Load the catapult and point it at Illinois.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:14 AM
  #118
Tim Tebow
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
HAHAHA @ Chicago...


HAHAHAAA !!!!


oh wait maybe i shouldnt laff till its a done deal.
I am probably in the minority since Flyers fans are in full Carle hate mode but I actually think Carle would work out fine for Chicago.

Philadelphia is trying to use Carle as a #1 defenseman. He is even getting more ice time then Timonen. That isn't him though and he is struggling. With Chicago they already have a top pair with Keith and Seabrook. Carle would just be depth likely taking the role of rookie Nick Leddy who despite impressing offensively does look very much like a rookie defensively.

Carle would have less ice time, play with a defense first partner in Hjalmarsson, and wouldn't have to worry about constantly facing other teams top scoring line. I think he would handle that role very well.

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02-12-2012, 01:08 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, word is from several people I talk to (and Frank Sevralli also reported this), Carle is definitely in play. There's an impasse in contract negotiations and it's expected that Holmgren will deal Carle rather than lose him for nothing. From what I've heard, Minnesota and believe it or not, Chicago are greatly interested in Carle.

As well, Andrej Meszaros is expected to be moved this off season and that Winnipeg GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has recently contacted Holmgren and expressed interest in acquiring him when the off season rolls around (due to budgetary concerns in Winnipeg). Winnipeg is apparently offering up Mark Stuart in the off season.

Looks like Holmgren is going to retool the defense this off season and that depending on what he gets from the Carle deal and a possible Meszaros deal, the only guys who might be left next season to start will be Timonen and Coburn.
If this was the truth and i'm not doubting you I would be a happy happy man. Not so much about the Mez thing for mark stuart but Carle to Chicago(Eh maybe I wouldn't mind Mark Stuart). Maybe for a 1st or something?? He would be the best available dman if he was on the block I believe right?

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02-12-2012, 05:25 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
I am probably in the minority since Flyers fans are in full Carle hate mode but I actually think Carle would work out fine for Chicago.

Philadelphia is trying to use Carle as a #1 defenseman. He is even getting more ice time then Timonen. That isn't him though and he is struggling. With Chicago they already have a top pair with Keith and Seabrook. Carle would just be depth likely taking the role of rookie Nick Leddy who despite impressing offensively does look very much like a rookie defensively.

Carle would have less ice time, play with a defense first partner in Hjalmarsson, and wouldn't have to worry about constantly facing other teams top scoring line. I think he would handle that role very well.

Man that would be an expensive coupling if all Chicago expected them to do was be a break even d pair. I think they could really work well though and wouldn't mind seeing that happen. I happen the think pretty highly of Hjalmarsson's game too though.

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02-12-2012, 05:40 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Man that would be an expensive coupling if all Chicago expected them to do was be a break even d pair. I think they could really work well though and wouldn't mind seeing that happen. I happen the think pretty highly of Hjalmarsson's game too though.
Carle for Olsen+?

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02-12-2012, 06:04 AM
  #122
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Methot is done for the season, I think with a broken jaw.

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02-12-2012, 06:17 AM
  #123
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If the Flyers get any defender around the deadline it will be some BS player and no one top tier.

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02-12-2012, 07:13 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
So that's the difference here. You have essentially quit on the season. I have not. I do not know that the team will "end up in the same end state". I do not think we will win the cup, but we are still a good team and could make a run. We made it into the playoffs on a SO 2 years ago. I don't think making a marginal improvement is a waste.

2 years ago we were trotting out Krajicek and Parent on the 3rd pairing and getting beat bad. So the top 4 had to play insane minutes. They would have killed for a Hal Gill 2 years ago. This year we're gonna be trotting out MAB and Gus and we could very well experience the same thing.
I am with you (except, I think we can do better than Gill... he's somehow gotten even slower this season... he knows what it takes to win though). I would be very surprised if we ended up with the cup this season, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve our team. We're not that far away from being legitimate cup contenders, and most teams have a go or two at the cup before winning it. Not just the rookies, but also Simmonds and Voracek would gain some valuable experience from going past at least the first round in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Two words: Sami Pahlsson.
While a 4th line center would be nice to add as well, I'm in the same position with Påhlsson as I am with Gill. He's gotten old the past couple of seasons. I'd prefer if we could get someone better. I would love to get Jay McClement from the Avs. If we can't land McClement, then Påhlsson might be the next best thing among available 4th line centers though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
I am probably in the minority since Flyers fans are in full Carle hate mode but I actually think Carle would work out fine for Chicago.

Philadelphia is trying to use Carle as a #1 defenseman. He is even getting more ice time then Timonen. That isn't him though and he is struggling. With Chicago they already have a top pair with Keith and Seabrook. Carle would just be depth likely taking the role of rookie Nick Leddy who despite impressing offensively does look very much like a rookie defensively.

Carle would have less ice time, play with a defense first partner in Hjalmarsson, and wouldn't have to worry about constantly facing other teams top scoring line. I think he would handle that role very well.
Carle is seeing more minutes than Timonen, but they are pretty sheltered as well. Timonen-Coburn pairing are almost always out against the other teams top line, they are the first pairing out on the pk etc. That said, if we do trade Carle and still intend to compete this season, we would need to add a top 4 guy to replace him.



I think I would look to Oduya if we're adding a defender. He's not a great crease clearer, but he can log some minutes if needed. Kubina has apparently turned his season around somewhat after an abysmal start, he might be an option. Grossman would be a bit interesting if we want to re-sign him in the summer. Maybe Hannan from the Flames if they decide to sell after all.

None of these players should cost more than a pick (not 1st) and perhaps some mid-level prospect.

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02-12-2012, 08:47 AM
  #125
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Yes, because Briere just decides that he doesnt want to try all season and then all of a sudden decides he cares and turns into Thor. Just like last playoffs where he threw the team on his back. Oh wait.
Well, I think it's pretty defendable that Briere is one of the bests playoffs performers we have at the moment, if not the best one. Briere needs to find chemistry with a new line, which is why he's producing a bit less this season than before, but if he does, it will be lethal in the playoffs. His locker room presence is also very important, remember what the team said about his speech last year against Buffalo, game 6? Add that to the fact that he lives with Couturier, and used to live with Giroux. I'm telling you, his presence is a big + in the playoffs.

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