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RC "getting it" the way JM never did... OR NOT

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Old
02-11-2012, 11:57 PM
  #1
Miller Time
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RC "getting it" the way JM never did... OR NOT

ok, I know it's "just" a 4-game winning streak, and we've had our fair share of luck in the process...


but I would like to point out that, with the team on it's biggest winning streak of the season, 2 highly paid/ineffective vets are getting the kind of minutes their play warrants, as opposed to their age/experience/salary.


Aside from the Pitt overtime game (where Kaberle got 17min), both Gomez and Kaberle have seen their minutes kept under 15min (kaberle)/12min(gomez) in all 4 wins...


RC seems to "get it" in a way that Martin stubbornly never did.

It's one thing to play the guys you trust, or the guys you "think" give you the best chance to win, its another thing to simply default to experience/salary as a rational for ice time.

Gomez and Kaberle, by virtue of their level of performance, are getting the kind of minutes they deserve, yet were Martin still in place, very good chance we'd be seeing both with a lot more minutes.



and yes, I do realize that Martin's record/win% with the team this year was better than RC's... but will be interesting to see how that looks by the end of the year.

RC isn't without his issues as a coach, but given the way he was brought in (and thrown under the bus), and given that this is is first stint as an NHL coach, it only makes sense to give him some time to actually put his "stamp" on the team.

This may just be a small upswing, and this team may remain a sub-500 team the rest of the season, but right now, how they are competing and more importantly, how what their body language & comments suggest about their level of "buy-in" with the team/coach/program, looks way better than it was under Martin... and as some like to point out, at the time of his firing, the team had been having a pretty good month, results-wise, without any noticeable positive reflection from the players.


Guys "get it"... when a coach plays people based on effectiveness/effort, everyone feels better (and those that don't, are exactly the kind of guys you don't win with).

both Gomez & Kaberle, to their credit, don't seem to be pouting about being used sparsely, which says a lot about their character... just hope PG can find a way to get rid of both before next season.


Last edited by Miller Time: 02-25-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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02-11-2012, 11:59 PM
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But I like Kaberle

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02-11-2012, 11:59 PM
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Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach

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02-12-2012, 12:06 AM
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OneSharpMarble
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Kaberle wasn't ineffective, he was doing exactly what he has always done and that is make good passes. Just because we have no shooters doesn't degrade Kaberle. I know this is just another sad attempt to take a shot at Gauthier though.

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02-12-2012, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
Brilliant strategies such as.. Halak, go to the net.

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02-12-2012, 12:15 AM
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Big meh.

Winning streak can just as easily be attributed to Pacioretty's explosion, Subban's dominance and Price's light's out play rather than the coach "getting it".

All 3 catalysts are independent of Gomez and Kaberle's icetime so color me unconvinced.

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02-12-2012, 12:17 AM
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Kaberle is doing fine and is playing the same role Jacques Martin expected of him when he came in.

You can go watch the interview the day Kaberle was acquired. JM said that Kaberle was a disappointment for other teams because their expectations were to high for him. He said that they(the habs) see him and a PP guy and an offensive contributor on the back end. When asked for his role 5 on 5, Martin said "we'll find a place for him."

Kaberle has been playing around 16 minutes a game since his arrival.

Kaberle was brought in as an offensive defender. He's been producing quite well offensively. His role hasn't changed, he was immediately used on the bottom pairing upon his arrival, which was what Martin had intended. His role hasn't changed under Cunneyworth.

Whether he is worth 4.25 to be an offensive bottom pairing D man is another story.

Since his arrival Kaberle has only played 7 games where he was used more than 17 minutes.

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02-12-2012, 12:17 AM
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Except that Campoli is still playing (I don't care if he's shopped. He's ****), Kaberle plays in the top 4 and Darche is in the top 6.

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02-12-2012, 12:24 AM
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Jack Bourdain
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Brilliant strategies such as.. Halak, go to the net.
And we will ignore the defensive juggernaut of a system that blocked 50% of the shots and only let the low percentage ones get past them.

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02-12-2012, 12:24 AM
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Brilliant strategies such as.. Halak, go to the net.
Martin figured out that Gill would shot down Crosby, thats pretty good

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02-12-2012, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Brilliant strategies such as.. Halak, go to the net.
lol please, if you were watching those series, Martin was seriously out coaching everyone like a boss, without taking away any credit to Halak, and Cammy and also Gill for the PK's and Georges for being a sick hero.

Anyways, i don't usually see it this way MT, for me it's more if the players "get it" or not. Just like the players were not "getting it" when RC came in and looked like he had no plan/no vision. i'm sure he had already "got it" which is why he was hired and probably reason why he's coaching hockey professionally. When he took over it took some time for the panic that was reigning the habs organization and it's fan base to to disappear, befor the players went back to "getting it". Which is just really another way of saying confidence and trust. At the end of the day, you can have 13 darches and they can all "get it" and youll be losing all your games, even under prime scotty bowman.

The reason we are winning, is because of the development of players like Patches, UFA in Cole, signing Emelin and general chemistry and confidence that is building.


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02-12-2012, 12:29 AM
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Every coachs have players they prefer from other guys and they keep playing them. RC it's Plek and Darche. Martin it was Darche and Gomez.

From what i've seen of the match against TO it felt like a Martin-style tight system.

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02-12-2012, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
yeah yeah... we snuck into the playoffs in his first year (despite a supposedly "upgraded" roster), then went 8-6 in the first 2 rounds largely on the back of a goaltender playing out of his mind, and a sniper going on a ridiculous 21% shooting clip...

give any coach that combination and his "strategies" will look pretty good. wonder if you see any coincidence that as soon as both players came back down to earth, the team got spanked in the next round

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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Kaberle wasn't ineffective, he was doing exactly what he has always done and that is make good passes. Just because we have no shooters doesn't degrade Kaberle. I know this is just another sad attempt to take a shot at Gauthier though.
? are we talking about MAB or about Tomas Kaberle... he who used to be a 20-25min/night player?

Kaberle, at one point, was a very effective defensemen. Now he's a bottom pairing player who makes nice passes and has good offensive instincts, allowing him to collect a solid amount of points as a result.

My point in this thread wasn't to degrade Kaberle, it was to applaud RC for playing the guys who deserve to play based on their effort and effectiveness.

Martin has his strengths as a coach, but a weakness that many observed for a long time was a stubborn propensity to dish out minutes based on the name of a player, and not on how he was playing.

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Kaberle is doing fine and is playing the same role Jacques Martin expected of him when he came in.

You can go watch the interview the day Kaberle was acquired. JM said that Kaberle was a disappointment for other teams because their expectations were to high for him. He said that they(the habs) see him and a PP guy and an offensive contributor on the back end. When asked for his role 5 on 5, Martin said "we'll find a place for him."

Kaberle has been playing around 16 minutes a game since his arrival.

Kaberle was brought in as an offensive defender. He's been producing quite well offensively. His role hasn't changed, he was immediately used on the bottom pairing upon his arrival, which was what Martin had intended. His role hasn't changed under Cunneyworth.

Whether he is worth 4.25 to be an offensive bottom pairing D man is another story.

Since his arrival Kaberle has only played 7 games where he was used more than 17 minutes.
again, my apologies if i wasn't clear enough.

Kaberle's role/value/effectiveness has been debated enough in other threads.

I wanted to talk about RC's approach to dishing out minutes, and specifically, how he seems (and really, it's such a small sample of his role as HC, that perhaps it's a mistake on my part to view his decision making of late as emblematic of his overall approach) far more willing to give out minutes based on merit (both effort/effectiveness) than on age/experience/salary...

Martin, imo, most clearly defaulted to vets as often as possible and despite what the actual play on the ice looked like.
that's a welcome change in my books.

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02-12-2012, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
If memory serves, didn't it take Muller stepping up in the Washington series to light the spark that carried us past the Caps and pens?

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02-12-2012, 12:41 AM
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Andy
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I wanted to talk about RC's approach to dishing out minutes, and specifically, how he seems (and really, it's such a small sample of his role as HC, that perhaps it's a mistake on my part to view his decision making of late as emblematic of his overall approach) far more willing to give out minutes based on merit (both effort/effectiveness) than on age/experience/salary...

Martin, imo, most clearly defaulted to vets as often as possible and despite what the actual play on the ice looked like.
that's a welcome change in my books.
He had Darche and Bluden playing signficant minutes they hadn't earned early on. Darche has played well the last few games, but a lot of the time he was getting minutes he didn't earn.

I haven't seen much of a shift in Kaberle's role between the small sample size with Martin and Cunneyworth's use of him. Kaberle's diminished minutes in the past few games can largly be attributed to the fact that the habs have(i think) 4 powerplays in the last three games. That will affect in playing time. Aside from that, Cunneyworth has been using him in a similar role as Martin has.

I haven't see that much of a change at all other than the fact that the habs have been winning games. Kostitsyn has played extremely will in a few games yet hasn't recieved the supposed icetime based on merit that you are attributing to RC.

The habs are winning, for me that's the only thing that has changed. The game plan has been more or less the same.(aside from the fact that RC is actually starting to give Plekanec the top matchups again and not Eller).

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02-12-2012, 12:42 AM
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He's making rookie coach mistakes but I think being involved with a losing team has a lot to do with it.

He's running out of excuses here but JM DID destroy team morale and the lockerroom and it was absolutely unacceptable to lost 1-0 games at home like we did. We were playing not to lose for so long that a positive gameplan is going to be really hard to establish, especially with a rookie defensive corps.

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02-12-2012, 12:57 AM
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Miller Time
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lol please, if you were watching those series, Martin was seriously out coaching everyone like a boss, without taking away any credit to Halak, and Cammy and also Gill for the PK's and Georges for being a sick hero..
wow, pretty solid strategy:

In 4 wins vs Washington, Halak saves:
47, 38, 54, 42

In 3 losses vs Washington, Halak saves:
37(OTL), 13/21(split with price), 32(price)

In 4 wins vs Pitt, Halak saves:
39, 35, 39, 35

In 3 loses vs Pitt, Halak saves:
20, 24, 25


yeah, fantastic "out coaching"... Ok guys, let them bombard us with shots, if our goalie makes 35+ saves/night, we'll have them right were we want them!"


Too bad Halak didn't get the memo in the philly series


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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Anyways, i don't usually see it this way MT, for me it's more if the players "get it" or not. Just like the players were not "getting it" when RC came in and looked like he had no plan/no vision. i'm sure he had already "got it" which is why he was hired and probably reason why he's coaching hockey professionally. When he took over it took some time for the panic that was reigning the habs organization and it's fan base to to disappear, befor the players went back to "getting it". Which is just really another way of saying confidence and trust. At the end of the day, you can have 13 darches and they can all "get it" and youll be losing all your games, even under prime scotty bowman.
you can believe what you want, but there is a reason some coaches have success "follow them"...

yes, reaching the NHL requires a great deal of skill/dedication as a professional coach.

No, all coaches who reach that level "get it" the same way.

and thank you for pointing out the "confidence & trust" factor. Part of the reason I've argued that being too critical of RC at this point is foolish, is b/c the way he was brought in (and thrown under the bus) put him in a very bad situation as far as earning/building confidence & trust with the players.

By all but assuring the entire world that they would hire a different coach in the offseason, they made RC's job of getting buy-in from his players far more difficult. this brief positive stretch doesn't mean that he's completely turned it around, or that he's a fantastic coach that deserves a long-term extention... but it does indicate that he had enough in him to "weather the storm" that Gauthier/Molson created, and that his methods are at least temporarily resonating in a positive way with the players.

we have another ~30 games to see what his system/strategies look like now that he's clearly got the players feeling good, confident and trusting (Price's comments after tonight could not have summed it up any better).



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The reason we are winning, is because of the development of players like Patches, UFA in Cole, signing Emelin and general chemistry and confidence that is building.
reasons we are winning are many, I'm just pointing out that our biggest win-streak of the year (and most positive we've seen the group as a whole, happens to coincide with the HC doing something others have, often very adamantly, argued a HC could not do (i.e not play expensive vets with a history of playing much larger roles).

may not have any correlation at all, may just be conincidence, but from personal experience, I'd argue that it's always better to play for a coach that, regardless of system/strategies, plays the guys who deserve it "now" as opposed to rewarding players for what they did once upon a time.

Martin was notorious for that, imo, and the way the team was playing and behaving (irrespective of results, which were actually on the whole, better than they have been under RC so far -at least in terms of win%) revealed the "cracks" that inevitably form from coaching with such double standards.

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Anyways this is more of an opinion thread with purpose to validate your prior opinions and speculations.
Yawn.
must be unfortunate to have so little stimulating going on to have to spend time replying in length to posts/threads you find boring.

i feel for ya dude.

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02-12-2012, 01:21 AM
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Miller Time
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He had Darche and Bluden playing signficant minutes they hadn't earned early on. Darche has played well the last few games, but a lot of the time he was getting minutes he didn't earn.
going out on a bit of limb here, but perhaps that was RC's way of making his point that playing "his way" would get you minutes, period.

Obviously neither Blunden nor Darche can lead your team to wins in big minute roles at the expense of more talented players, but is it not possible that this was RC's way of making his point... and that some of his skilled guys took the message in stride?

and I'll stress that I don't know, and I don't want to be justifying or making excuse for why RC & the habs struggle mightly in his first dozen games.

but again, given the **** storm he walked into, it would have been very very easy for this group to quit on him, or to drown out his message/approach to the game.

maybe this little positive streak is just a combination of good luck and mediocre opponents... but either way, not having to watch Gomez get his 18min/night just because is alone a reason to applaud him (and as hard as it is to believe, I don't say that as a "knock" on gomez, if he could give us more than other guys by playing those kinds of minutes, then great... but he wasn't, and under Martin he got those minutes regardless).


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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I haven't seen much of a shift in Kaberle's role between the small sample size with Martin and Cunneyworth's use of him. Kaberle's diminished minutes in the past few games can largly be attributed to the fact that the habs have(i think) 4 powerplays in the last three games. That will affect in playing time. Aside from that, Cunneyworth has been using him in a similar role as Martin has.
you are right there, that is more a speculative assumption on my part based on how Martin used his roster the previous 2 years.

and Kaberle hasn't seen his minutes diminished in just the past few games... right from the start RC's often had him below the 16min/game mark iirc.

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I haven't see that much of a change at all other than the fact that the habs have been winning games. Kostitsyn has played extremely will in a few games yet hasn't recieved the supposed icetime based on merit that you are attributing to RC.
yup... and Eller should be used more than ~15min/game (and should be on the PP)...

i'm not even saying I fully agree with how RC's using the entire roster.

Just as I argued with Martin's use of players, I'm never looking to critique just for the sake of critiquing, and ultimately results speak for themselves.

But I do think that, unlike under JM, there's a logic to RC's allocation of ice time (even if i don't agree with it entirely) that doesn't reside or reflect a double-standard based solely on age/experience, which consistently seemed to be the case under Martin (and was strongly reflected in the subtle commentary of several young players).

I'm trying to applaud RC for seeming to apply an approach to dishing out ice time that is merit based, on whatever guidelines of merit he adheres to (and which Kost & Eller apparently aren't fully meeting, or at least not as much as others).

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The habs are winning, for me that's the only thing that has changed. The game plan has been more or less the same.(aside from the fact that RC is actually starting to give Plekanec the top matchups again and not Eller).
but didn't you point out adnauseum that the Habs were playing well prior to Martin getting fired... emphasizing that we had gone 3-1-3 in december prior to his firing ("only 1 regular time loss in 7 games).

Winning is the point, to be sure, but I'd argue that the team has been showing a lot better confidence in the last ~3 weeks-month, which includes a 3 game losing streak.

The rest of the season, both how successful the team is in terms of wins, but ALSO, how confident/together the team remains, will say a lot about RC as a head coach, imo... right now, I'm really liking what I see/hear.

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02-12-2012, 01:27 AM
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you can believe what you want, but there is a reason some coaches have success "follow them"...

yes, reaching the NHL requires a great deal of skill/dedication as a professional coach.

No, all coaches who reach that level "get it" the same way.
Having success follow you requires you to be in top 5% of NHL coaching, elite + loads of external factors IMO
Lots of diferent coaches win cups though. All to say, most coaches "get it" to a certain degree, they have to make the players "get" the gameplan. Not all coaches adapt their gameplans to the game / assets they have. Probably your main criticism with martin.
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and thank you for pointing out the "confidence & trust" factor. Part of the reason I've argued that being too critical of RC at this point is foolish, is b/c the way he was brought in (and thrown under the bus) put him in a very bad situation as far as earning/building confidence & trust with the players.
Totally agree. Personally what i saw in his interviews was same as Martin; keeps his cool and talks mostly about the positives and what can be improved. He was put into the worst situation possible, and suprisingly is coming out winning, which IMO i would of never thought he'd have so much authority and confidence in the room and with the media. Impressive.
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By all but assuring the entire world that they would hire a different coach in the offseason, they made RC's job of getting buy-in from his players far more difficult. this brief positive stretch doesn't mean that he's completely turned it around, or that he's a fantastic coach that deserves a long-term extention... but it does indicate that he had enough in him to "weather the storm" that Gauthier/Molson created, and that his methods are at least temporarily resonating in a positive way with the players.

we have another ~30 games to see what his system/strategies look like now that he's clearly got the players feeling good, confident and trusting (Price's comments after tonight could not have summed it up any better).
Positive development for the group is whats needed, and it's working, alot of rooks buying into the game. Hopefully they keep it running, and hope for them and the fans that they get rewarded with PO experience. (Top12-15 overall pick < Top15-25 pick and PO's. in my mind IMO)
Have not seen price comments, will check it
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reasons we are winning are many, I'm just pointing out that our biggest win-streak of the year (and most positive we've seen the group as a whole, happens to coincide with the HC doing something others have, often very adamantly, argued a HC could not do (i.e not play expensive vets with a history of playing much larger roles).

may not have any correlation at all, may just be conincidence, but from personal experience, I'd argue that it's always better to play for a coach that, regardless of system/strategies, plays the guys who deserve it "now" as opposed to rewarding players for what they did once upon a time.

Martin was notorious for that, imo, and the way the team was playing and behaving (irrespective of results, which were actually on the whole, better than they have been under RC so far -at least in terms of win%) revealed the "cracks" that inevitably form from coaching with such double standards.
Different style, probably. Though i would disagree, without what i understand as overplaying vets over rookies. Different standards, probably, but how can we forget bringing up Patches? and Subban? and did he mishandle Price? Give it time and RC will pull some bad moves too, and it won't be a cute "he healthy scratched eller, how cute , RC putting his stamp on the team" (not saying that was a mistake, that turned out a o k)
Martin trusted his rookies alot. He praised them all the time, just that he would continuously have to explain why he did what he ahd to do to certain players (development process) and he did, he always said what the rookies needed to do better. In the end it was viewed as "Martin blames young guys for loss" when in fact he would point out what the mistakes were.
I'm sure our perspective of Martin is quite contradictory to each other.
For now, RC is doing a good job, but he got some criticism befor this streak, and he did some questionable moves, and he will probably do more in the future. And i'm sure he will handle them properly.
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must be unfortunate to have so little stimulating going on to have to spend time replying in length to posts/threads you find boring.

i feel for ya dude.
My bad, that was unwarranted opinion.


The best thing thats going to happen to RC is when Markov will be put in the line-up.


Last edited by uiCk: 02-12-2012 at 01:36 AM.
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02-12-2012, 01:37 AM
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? are we talking about MAB or about Tomas Kaberle... he who used to be a 20-25min/night player?

Kaberle, at one point, was a very effective defensemen. Now he's a bottom pairing player who makes nice passes and has good offensive instincts, allowing him to collect a solid amount of points as a result.

My point in this thread wasn't to degrade Kaberle, it was to applaud RC for playing the guys who deserve to play based on their effort and effectiveness.

Martin has his strengths as a coach, but a weakness that many observed for a long time was a stubborn propensity to dish out minutes based on the name of a player, and not on how he was playing.
No Kaberle is a top 4 dman, the only reason people rip o n him is because he doesn't get covered the way Subban does. If Kaberle had Gorges covering for his mistakes it wouldn't even be an issue.

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02-12-2012, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
No Kaberle is a top 4 dman, the only reason people rip o n him is because he doesn't get covered the way Subban does. If Kaberle had Gorges covering for his mistakes it wouldn't even be an issue.

disagree completely.

His last 3 coaches (Julien, Maurice, RC) have used him more as a bottom pairing guy, plus pp minutes.

Kaberle, for whatever reason, has lost the "compete" part of his game... he shies away from physical contact to the detriment of his ability to be a 20+min/night player that his skill level otherwise suggests.

RC, Maurice and Julien aren't idiots, if the guy was a capable top-4 dman, they would have been using him as such instead of playing him 16min/game (Julien), healthy scratching him (Maurice), or playing him sub 15min/g (RC).

When Gill and Campoli are getting more min/g than you are, it says something pretty clear about what you're playing at.

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02-12-2012, 03:14 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post

Different style, probably. Though i would disagree, without what i understand as overplaying vets over rookies. Different standards, probably, but how can we forget bringing up Patches? and Subban? and did he mishandle Price? Give it time and RC will pull some bad moves too, and it won't be a cute "he healthy scratched eller, how cute , RC putting his stamp on the team" (not saying that was a mistake, that turned out a o k)
Martin trusted his rookies alot. He praised them all the time, just that he would continuously have to explain why he did what he ahd to do to certain players (development process) and he did, he always said what the rookies needed to do better. In the end it was viewed as "Martin blames young guys for loss" when in fact he would point out what the mistakes were.
I'm sure our perspective of Martin is quite contradictory to each other.
For now, RC is doing a good job, but he got some criticism befor this streak, and he did some questionable moves, and he will probably do more in the future. And i'm sure he will handle them properly.
.
i don't know about that assessment.

Subban and Pacioretty both responded poorly/publicly to how Martin handled them, I think it's a bit of a faulty argument to argue that their current success is because of how he handled them... Just as we can't entirely fault Martin for the failures of S.Kost, O'Byrne, Lats, D'ago, Pouliot, Lapierre in montreal, we can't credit him with how Subban, Patches, Eller, DD, Emelin, Diaz have/will turn out.

and besides, on the whole, if we were to credit/fault any one coach for the success/failure of young players, on the whole our young prospects/players did rather poorly under Martin imo.

Personally, I didn't like Martin's approach to dealing with young players, and imo, he didn't get as much out of our team as he could have had he shown greater willingness to both trust and adapt to the young talent we had. But a statement like that can only be opinion, because there really is no way to objectively quantify a coaches positive or negative impact on the "development" of young players over a 2 1/2 year span (perhaps if you had a guy like Ruff or Trotz, in place for over a decade, then you could start to extrapolate a more concrete connection, but even then the amount of variables at play would still leave any analysis quite subjective).

I think what was pretty clear under Martin, is that younger players had a much shorter "leash", that mistakes by younger players would lead to more direct and immediate ice-time consequences than they did with older players, and imo it's this double standard that ultimately undermined his ability to get the team as a whole to continue competing with confidence despite the slow start.


RC has made his share of decisions that I find puzzling, I just think that the situation he walked into warrants patience on our part, and the willingness to keep "key" veterans stuck on the bench as much as young guys strikes me as a positive change.

pretty much agree with most of the rest of your post... (as for the unwarranted part, tit-for-tat never bothers me, getting the elbows up sometimes adds a little spice )

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02-12-2012, 05:23 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Brilliant strategies such as.. Halak, go to the net.
you can't really believe this

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02-12-2012, 06:59 AM
  #24
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To be honest, although I was souring on Martin when they replaced him with Cunneyworth I was extremely skeptical. After all he was running the power play and look how great that was doing.

But I noticed Cunneyworth is a great motivator and communicator - somethings Martin didn't even know existed let alone possess. He has yet to throw anyone under the bus, If you remember correctly, the first week Martin was here he started throwing Sergei not only under the bus but out of the locker room.Later O'Byrne not being played. Lapierre wanting out, D'ago not utilized. Let's not forget Lats' regression under Martin. Joking that Andrei was scoring because it was a contract year. This sort of behaviour alienates a coach from his players. In these aspects of coaching I see that Cunneyworth is head and shoulders above Martin.

Also, Martin was fantastic at team defense. I can remember a small documentary when he was assistant coach for the Olympic team where he admitted almost bragged that he knew how to shut down opposing teams. I agreed and agree with him.

But he was and is putrid when it comes to coaching offence. He doesn't have a freaking clue.

Cunneyworth seems to have either kept Martin's defensive system or understood it enough to implement it but I see this team doing some interesting things offensively. Morethan under Martin sans Muller.

I'm still in the wait and show me mode but I've warmed up to Cunneyworth and secretly hope he's learning lots of French. I'm almost at the point where I'd keep him.

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02-12-2012, 07:16 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
disagree completely.

His last 3 coaches (Julien, Maurice, RC) have used him more as a bottom pairing guy, plus pp minutes.

Kaberle, for whatever reason, has lost the "compete" part of his game... he shies away from physical contact to the detriment of his ability to be a 20+min/night player that his skill level otherwise suggests.

RC, Maurice and Julien aren't idiots, if the guy was a capable top-4 dman, they would have been using him as such instead of playing him 16min/game (Julien), healthy scratching him (Maurice), or playing him sub 15min/g (RC).

When Gill and Campoli are getting more min/g than you are, it says something pretty clear about what you're playing at.
I agree with this. Kaberle has lost "it" somewhere along the way. It happens. He still has the experience and vision that he can still pull off most of the basic things he needs to and make the basic passes on the PP, but to compete at the highest level in the NHL... well, he has lost "it". I hope the team can find a way to move him out in the off-season, but I can't expect it. Spacek would have been as good, IMHO, and indeed we've now lost the advantage Spacek had in terms of an expiring contract.

I really wanted to be open-minded about Kaberle when the trade was made, and the first few weeks were cause for some minor optimism, but... over the longer haul, he has settled into where he belongs.

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