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Kimmo Timonen to Nashville

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Old
02-11-2012, 08:20 PM
  #1
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Kimmo Timonen to Nashville

Hi there Predators fans, Flyers fan coming in peace.

Just wondering what you guys would think of Kimmo coming back to Nashville to finish out his career at the deadline.

My reasoning is that the Flyers are simply not contenders this year, and that no miniscule trade for a Hal Gill/Grossman etc will make them contenders. After such an overhaul and so many injuries, it's becoming more and more obvious to me after each game.

Anyway, because Timonen has been calling out the team recently for their performance (especially after the Rangers game today), I think he might be getting fed up. You might question why the Flyers would give up our best d-man after Pronger, but it's simply because Timonen will be retired by the time the Flyers are legitimate contenders (my guess is in 2-3 years). He is probably desperate to have one or two more shots at the Cup, and is realizing he won't get it in Philly...

He's on pace for his highest point total as a Flyer, and I don't need to sell him to you real fans, because you know he gets it done. He could really be a help for Suter-Weber, and take some of the workload off their and the younger guys shoulders. Additionally, a big trade like this would help convince them to stay since they would realize that Poile is serious about making a Cup run. Lastly, Timonen has a lot of mileage left yet, so he might stick around for another 2-3 years after this one. I'm not positive on the numbers, but I'm pretty sure you would still have cap room to pursue a top-6 forward at the deadline. Furthermore, his contract is expiring at the end of the next season. It might present some short term difficulty in signing Suter-Weber, but I've heard from you guys that you have quite a bit of cap flexibility, so I will take your word for it.

So, my proposal is;

To Nashville:
Kimmo Timonen

To Philadelphia:

Roman Josi
2012 1st round pick
2013 Conditional 1st round pick (If Nashville wins the Cup)

Philly stocks up their assets for the future, whereas Nashville has a top 3 on the backend of Suter, Weber and Timonen, along with Rinne in net. I think you would be one of the teams to beat, for sure.

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Old
02-11-2012, 08:32 PM
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I Will Son
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No, we would never trade Josi for Kimmo. Plus adding a 1st..

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02-11-2012, 08:45 PM
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Maybe we can work something out in the off season if Suter leaves. Josi is close to untouchable though.

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02-11-2012, 08:46 PM
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Kimmo is going to be 37 next month. That is what makes this proposal awful.

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02-11-2012, 09:04 PM
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Fo Shea Shea
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So an aging, average to slightly above average defenseman , for a young stud, a 1st, and a conditional??? I think you are way overvaluing here.

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02-11-2012, 09:10 PM
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maplepred
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Counter proposal,
Timonen for bouillon and laakso?? Maybe toss in a 4th rounder

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Old
02-11-2012, 09:14 PM
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Brain... on fire... synapses... breaking...

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02-11-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fo Shea Shea View Post
So an aging, average to slightly above average defenseman , for a young stud, a 1st, and a conditional??? I think you are way overvaluing here.
Of course, it's an initial proposal. Let me ask you though, if you won the cup this year, and had to give up a 1st next year, wouldn't you agree it was worth it?

As for Josi, any non-Predator fan agrees he has top 3 potential, but the Predators have tons of defensive depth already. If you want to stay a contending team next year, you probably need to sign both Suter and Weber. If you lose both, or either of them, will Josi be ready to take top line duties?

The 1st rounder in this years draft will be a late one, and most experts agree that this draft is pretty weak past the top 15... IMO it's not a heavy price to pay at all for an established vet presence, who is anything but an 'average' d-man. The guy is an all-star and is on pace for 50+ points, and +15 on a terrible defensive team.

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02-11-2012, 09:56 PM
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TMI
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This deal really makes no sense for Nashville. Nashville trades away its best defensive prospect, and one who is currently playing second pairing minutes as the puck mover on a shutdown pairing, for an aging Timonen. He has a $6.3m cap hit. We are going to need all of the space we can get to re-sign Weber and Suter long term. PLUS we still need a shut down defender and a top six forward. Timonen doesn't even fill a need at the moment. He would effectively replace Josi for a lot more money.

Then, the team is giving up at least a first, possibly two. Granted, if we won the Cup it would soften the blow initially, but we are still out a great defensive prospect and at least one first round pick while acquiring a guy who may not even play beyond next season.

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02-11-2012, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Counter proposal,
Timonen for bouillon and laakso?? Maybe toss in a 4th rounder
I'm sorry... but that is an awful, awful trade for the Flyers.

Bouillion is a bottom pairing d-man who brings nothing to the Flyers. 4th rounder is negligible, and Laakso is a 24 year old injury prone 'prospect' who might potentially be a bottom pairing d-man at the NHL level..

I thought Predator fans would appreciate what Kimmo brings to the table... obviously not.

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02-11-2012, 09:59 PM
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TMI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
Of course, it's an initial proposal. Let me ask you though, if you won the cup this year, and had to give up a 1st next year, wouldn't you agree it was worth it?

As for Josi, any non-Predator fan agrees he has top 3 potential, but the Predators have tons of defensive depth already. If you want to stay a contending team next year, you probably need to sign both Suter and Weber. If you lose both, or either of them, will Josi be ready to take top line duties?

The 1st rounder in this years draft will be a late one, and most experts agree that this draft is pretty weak past the top 15... IMO it's not a heavy price to pay at all for an established vet presence, who is anything but an 'average' d-man. The guy is an all-star and is on pace for 50+ points, and +15 on a terrible defensive team.
The possibility of losing Suter is exactly why we need Josi. He may not be ready to fill in that spot, but he is the closest thing we will have to play that role. He certainly has the potential to be a Suter-lite, at the very least.

Winning the Cup would make it all worth it, for now. The trouble about that is Timonen doesn't come on to this team and turn it into a legitimate contender.

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02-11-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
This deal really makes no sense for Nashville. Nashville trades away its best defensive prospect, and one who is currently playing second pairing minutes as the puck mover on a shutdown pairing, for an aging Timonen. He has a $6.3m cap hit. We are going to need all of the space we can get to re-sign Weber and Suter long term. PLUS we still need a shut down defender and a top six forward. Timonen doesn't even fill a need at the moment. He would effectively replace Josi for a lot more money.

Then, the team is giving up at least a first, possibly two. Granted, if we won the Cup it would soften the blow initially, but we are still out a great defensive prospect and at least one first round pick while acquiring a guy who may not even play beyond next season.
Fair enough, and that is one concern that you should reasonably have. Do any of you know how much cap space the Preds would have with 6.3 million added?

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02-11-2012, 10:00 PM
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TMI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
I'm sorry... but that is an awful, awful trade for the Flyers.

Bouillion is a bottom pairing d-man who brings nothing to the Flyers. 4th rounder is negligible, and Laakso is a 24 year old injury prone 'prospect' who might potentially be a bottom pairing d-man at the NHL level..

I thought Predator fans would appreciate what Kimmo brings to the table... obviously not.
Appreciating a player's talents has nothing to do with thinking your team needs that player on its roster. Nashville just does not need Timonen, especially not at the price tag of Josi, a first, and a conditional first. If Josi and a first are on the table why not just add a bit to it for a top line forward? That would fill a hole more than Timonen.

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02-11-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
Fair enough, and that is one concern that you should reasonably have. Do any of you know how much cap space the Preds would have with 6.3 million added?
The numbers I have run without the cap raising next year (it likely will, but since no one knows for sure I ran the numbers without it going up) give us just shy of $7m in space with Weber and Suter signed to $7m/yr hits. That also gives raises to players like Wilson, Tootoo, SK, etc.

If we took on Timonen, re-signed both Weber and Suter, and the cap does not raise there is no room to add anything else.

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02-11-2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
The numbers I have run without the cap raising next year (it likely will, but since no one knows for sure I ran the numbers without it going up) give us just shy of $7m in space with Weber and Suter signed to $7m/yr hits. That also gives raises to players like Wilson, Tootoo, SK, etc.

If we took on Timonen, re-signed both Weber and Suter, and the cap does not raise there is no room to add anything else.

Damn, I didn't think you'd be so tight against the cap...

In that case, assuming Suter walks away in the offseason/gets his rights traded, would Timonen to Nashville for Jon Blum and a 2013 1st work better? Timonen steps in and is a stop gap with Weber for the young guys like Josi and allows Nashville to remain contenders. Preds fans obviously value Josi more than Blum, correct?

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02-11-2012, 10:44 PM
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Fo Shea Shea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
Of course, it's an initial proposal. Let me ask you though, if you won the cup this year, and had to give up a 1st next year, wouldn't you agree it was worth it?
If he was that one piece that put us over the top, then yes it would probably be worth it. Fact is he isn't the piece we need. No it's not worth it.

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02-11-2012, 10:56 PM
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My point was supposed to be that your offer was just as awful if not worse. I wouldn't do josi alone, wouldn't even think of adding a first rounder, especially from a very deep draft.

Also, think my offer was more reasonable than yours. Kimmo is pretty old at this point and is of no need to predators with likes of weber, suter, Ellis, josi, Klein in town. Predators need more of a mean grinding big defenseman.
Definitely like coburn!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
I'm sorry... but that is an awful, awful trade for the Flyers.

Bouillion is a bottom pairing d-man who brings nothing to the Flyers. 4th rounder is negligible, and Laakso is a 24 year old injury prone 'prospect' who might potentially be a bottom pairing d-man at the NHL level..

I thought Predator fans would appreciate what Kimmo brings to the table... obviously not.

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02-11-2012, 10:56 PM
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TMI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
Damn, I didn't think you'd be so tight against the cap...

In that case, assuming Suter walks away in the offseason/gets his rights traded, would Timonen to Nashville for Jon Blum and a 2013 1st work better? Timonen steps in and is a stop gap with Weber for the young guys like Josi and allows Nashville to remain contenders. Preds fans obviously value Josi more than Blum, correct?
If Suter leaves then I think it makes more sense to bring in someone like Timonen, but only if he is the best option available. I don't see trading that much value for a 37 year old UFA-to-be with a high cap hit.

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02-11-2012, 11:04 PM
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Timonen alone isn't worth Josi in my eyes... well maybe that isn't true but Josi has shown flashes of elite talent this season. Even though he is -10 on the year, he is still leaps and bounds the 3rd best defenseman on this team.


Last edited by TMI: 02-11-2012 at 11:08 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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Old
02-11-2012, 11:54 PM
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Josi is as untouchable and valued this year as Blum was last year.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:28 AM
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PredsV82
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Kimmo would be a decent rental option for a midrange prospect(think latta or laakso not josi or ellis) + pick but not with another year on his deal. Please check back with us next season at the deadline

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02-12-2012, 02:49 AM
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Kimmo makes considerably less than his cap hit in actual salary this year and next. Only $3M next year I believe.

If Suter leaves I think he'd be a great stop gap. He isn't that old and still playing great. Don't be afraid of a little veteranship and experience. This team badly needs it.

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02-12-2012, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Kimmo makes considerably less than his cap hit in actual salary this year and next. Only $3M next year I believe.

If Suter leaves I think he'd be a great stop gap. He isn't that old and still playing great. Don't be afraid of a little veteranship and experience. This team badly needs it.
But not at 2 first round picks and a young player whose star is just now shining. Roman Josi is a stud. If he stays healthy, he can be a number 2 defensemen for years, possibly a number 1. He is the best d-prospect we have had outside of Weber/Suter - better than Hamhuis/Klein/etc. IMO.

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02-12-2012, 04:55 AM
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But not at 2 first round picks and a young player whose star is just now shining. Roman Josi is a stud. If he stays healthy, he can be a number 2 defensemen for years, possibly a number 1. He is the best d-prospect we have had outside of Weber/Suter - better than Hamhuis/Klein/etc. IMO.
Yes I addressed that in my first post. I never said I thought his proposal was good value, just trying to open people's minds to the idea of bringing in a skilled vet if Suter leaves. It wasn't just what we gave up that made people balk.

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02-12-2012, 10:59 AM
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Why Would Philly trade Timonen?

They are going for it and will be adding, not subtracting, and Timonen is there best Dman with Pronger out.

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