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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 2.0

View Poll Results: Which would you draft this upcoming summer?
Mikhail Grigorenko 53 42.40%
Nail Yakupov 54 43.20%
Other 18 14.40%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-11-2012, 07:21 PM
  #926
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
No, I am absolutely confident Timmins and the staff will have preferences, regardless of position played. To say 3rd and 15th are interchangeable, so you might as well rank all the centers at the top, sounds ridiculous to me. Murray and Girgensons are not interchangeable, any more than Jack Johnson and Ryan O'Marra were.

As far as the depth of elite talent, every draft is different. In 2006 there was a big dropoff after 5. In 2004 it was after 2. In 2005 and 2007 there was a huge dropoff after 1. In 2003 it was sprinkled throughout the 1st round. Looking at past drafts, I don't see anything that suggests 3 as the magic number.
Sounds fine to me, the team needs offensive talent desperatly. We don't need to wait another 5 years to develop a good dman so we can then go through the process of trying to trade him for the player we wanted initially. If you never draft offense you wont get young offensive players, it is damn hard to trade for them because teams don't want to trade them. Simple as that.

Drafting a player that has no spot on your team when you have glaring holes is downright dumb. After the top elite players (arguably Yakupov, Grigorenko Galchenyuk) who is to say Collberg isn't as talented as Forsberg? Or maybe Reinhart is better than Murray? It is a crap shoot so pick the one that suits the team, not just some random guy who may or may not be better.

Our offense is downright anemic and we have Tinordi and Beaulieu who will be fighting for NHL spots in a year or two. Add in Subban, Gorges and Emelin and you have almost no open spots. Meanwhile we have Gallagher and who fighting for top spots on the offensive side? It is too hard to trade for young elite offensive talent, we need to pick several THIS year.

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Old
02-11-2012, 08:23 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Sounds fine to me, the team needs offensive talent desperatly. We don't need to wait another 5 years to develop a good dman so we can then go through the process of trying to trade him for the player we wanted initially. If you never draft offense you wont get young offensive players, it is damn hard to trade for them because teams don't want to trade them. Simple as that.

Drafting a player that has no spot on your team when you have glaring holes is downright dumb. After the top elite players (arguably Yakupov, Grigorenko Galchenyuk) who is to say Collberg isn't as talented as Forsberg? Or maybe Reinhart is better than Murray? It is a crap shoot so pick the one that suits the team, not just some random guy who may or may not be better.

Our offense is downright anemic and we have Tinordi and Beaulieu who will be fighting for NHL spots in a year or two. Add in Subban, Gorges and Emelin and you have almost no open spots. Meanwhile we have Gallagher and who fighting for top spots on the offensive side? It is too hard to trade for young elite offensive talent, we need to pick several THIS year.
Our offense 5 on 5 is not bad, just need a skilled winger/center to help generate offense on the PP(Semin?).

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02-11-2012, 08:57 PM
  #928
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Our offense 5 on 5 is not bad, just need a skilled winger/center to help generate offense on the PP(Semin?).
Nah we need a homegrown.

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02-12-2012, 12:05 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Sounds fine to me, the team needs offensive talent desperatly. We don't need to wait another 5 years to develop a good dman so we can then go through the process of trying to trade him for the player we wanted initially. If you never draft offense you wont get young offensive players, it is damn hard to trade for them because teams don't want to trade them. Simple as that.

Drafting a player that has no spot on your team when you have glaring holes is downright dumb. After the top elite players (arguably Yakupov, Grigorenko Galchenyuk) who is to say Collberg isn't as talented as Forsberg? Or maybe Reinhart is better than Murray? It is a crap shoot so pick the one that suits the team, not just some random guy who may or may not be better.

Our offense is downright anemic and we have Tinordi and Beaulieu who will be fighting for NHL spots in a year or two. Add in Subban, Gorges and Emelin and you have almost no open spots. Meanwhile we have Gallagher and who fighting for top spots on the offensive side? It is too hard to trade for young elite offensive talent, we need to pick several THIS year.
Man, needs change every year. While I agree that we need high offensive players and we'll still need it in 3 years if we don't draft one, there is no guarantee a second grade prospect like Girgensons or Collberg will be able to translate his play to the next level.

This is where BPA is important. If you think that at your spot, the player who is the most likely to become dominant in the NHL is a d-man, you have to choose him even if you have guys like Tinordi or Beaulieu in your system because they could turn out being busts or #7s in the NHL. We don't know yet. And if they all pans out...well! that's great news because young top prospect d-man has great value on the market.

That's my 2cents.

And again, sorry for my english. I'm having an hard time to translate exactly what I want to say.

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02-12-2012, 12:18 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by goforit View Post
Man, needs change every year. While I agree that we need high offensive players and we'll still need it in 3 years if we don't draft one, there is no guarantee a second grade prospect like Girgensons or Collberg will be able to translate his play to the next level.

This is where BPA is important. If you think that at your spot, the player who is the most likely to become dominant in the NHL is a d-man, you have to choose him even if you have guys like Tinordi or Beaulieu in your system because they could turn out being busts or #7s in the NHL. We don't know yet. And if they all pans out...well! that's great news because young top prospect d-man has great value on the market.

That's my 2cents.

And again, sorry for my english. I'm having an hard time to translate exactly what I want to say.
The fact we even have Tinordi and Beaulieu puts our defensive situation miles ahead of our offensive. We have no one who is projecting to be an elite forward. If the supposed best player is a dman then it is time to take a chance with a supposed less talented forward.

Our needs havn't changed in probably 10 years, we have no offense. Either we draft someone or we aren't getting anyone, simple as that.

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02-12-2012, 12:19 AM
  #931
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If the top 4 forwards are gone and theres still Dumba or Trouba out there YOU TAKE THEM.

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02-12-2012, 01:20 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
If the top 4 forwards are gone and theres still Dumba or Trouba out there YOU TAKE THEM.
I agree.

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02-12-2012, 01:21 AM
  #933
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This is where BPA is important. If you think that at your spot, the player who is the most likely to become dominant in the NHL is a d-man, you have to choose him even if you have guys like Tinordi or Beaulieu in your system because they could turn out being busts or #7s in the NHL. We don't know yet. And if they all pans out...well! that's great news because young top prospect d-man has great value on the market.
Exactly.

Quote:
Between the top 3 and say 15th there isn't that big of a talent dropoff.
Actually, a lot of us seem to think there is a big dropoff after the top 6 to 8 . That is the major reason why BPA is the way to go.

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02-12-2012, 01:40 AM
  #934
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If we do end up making the playoffs, would Pouliot be available around the 14th to 20th picks?

I saw a bit of him and was pretty impressed. Very calm and composed.

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02-12-2012, 07:43 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Kikizaz View Post
If we do end up making the playoffs, would Pouliot be available around the 14th to 20th picks?

I saw a bit of him and was pretty impressed. Very calm and composed.
Mr. Mora had this to say:

PLAYOFFS??? you talking about playoffs? You kidding me? PLayoffs?

In all seriousness let's settle down a bit here. We are playing really well but we have dug ourselves a hole.

About Pouliot, is it just me or is this guy going to be a friggin steal if drafted in the 14-20 range as he could be. Like the guy a lot especially his skating.

Like a poster above mentionned, i believe there is a drop in talent after the 7-8th pick and I wouldn't mind paying the price to move up in this draft. I know draft junkies like to keep all the picks and i love watching the draft when the habs own loads of picks, but our prospect pool isn't so bad (Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi, gallagher and so on...).

Add to that the fact that our team can count on lots of young talent in Pac, Subban, Eller, Desharnais, Leblanc, Emelin, Price and i think moving up in the draft might be a good idea. I'd move some quantity in picks for some quality. Say we finish with the 9th pick(lots of hockey to be played, purely hypothetical)

I'd swap the 9th and 39th for the 7th. I'd even add a bit to get to the 6th.

Just my opinion...what do you think?

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02-12-2012, 08:11 AM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The fact we even have Tinordi and Beaulieu puts our defensive situation miles ahead of our offensive. We have no one who is projecting to be an elite forward. If the supposed best player is a dman then it is time to take a chance with a supposed less talented forward.

Our needs havn't changed in probably 10 years, we have no offense. Either we draft someone or we aren't getting anyone, simple as that.
I think you always go for the BPA. The point is that sometimes not everyone agrees on the BPA.

Let's say in the 12 draft the Habs have seen all the top offensive players chosen yet Dumba or Trouba are still onthe board. You take The d man. If 3, 4 years down the line you have too many #1 d men, there's a thing called trades. You trade one or two of the d men for offence. Or you can always sign UFAs.

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02-12-2012, 11:52 AM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I think you always go for the BPA. The point is that sometimes not everyone agrees on the BPA.

Let's say in the 12 draft the Habs have seen all the top offensive players chosen yet Dumba or Trouba are still onthe board. You take The d man. If 3, 4 years down the line you have too many #1 d men, there's a thing called trades. You trade one or two of the d men for offence. Or you can always sign UFAs.
Or we trade down, pile on a 2nd with a late 1st. Grab two offensive forwards in the first round.

Imagine coming out of the first round with Aberg and Collberg. That'd be a nice haul.

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02-12-2012, 11:55 AM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Kikizaz View Post
If we do end up making the playoffs, would Pouliot be available around the 14th to 20th picks?

I saw a bit of him and was pretty impressed. Very calm and composed.
He should be available from 14th to 17th IMO, he's going to get snagged because he's a pretty solid puck mover.

Him, Sissons and Collberg look like the best guys we could get in a playoff spot pick.

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02-12-2012, 03:34 PM
  #939
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Reading through the last few pages and seeing the team getting farther and farther away from a top 5 pick... I've never been happier to have Timmins has our head scout .

There's so contradictory opinions around here that I simply rather wait and see what happens

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02-12-2012, 03:44 PM
  #940
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The trades to accumulate additional picks still need to happen.

Those picks have value, either to be used by Trevor Timmins to get more prospects or to be used to trade up with our first rounder if Galchenyuk slips just a little.

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02-12-2012, 03:56 PM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habssupporter View Post
Mr. Mora had this to say:

PLAYOFFS??? you talking about playoffs? You kidding me? PLayoffs?

In all seriousness let's settle down a bit here. We are playing really well but we have dug ourselves a hole.

About Pouliot, is it just me or is this guy going to be a friggin steal if drafted in the 14-20 range as he could be. Like the guy a lot especially his skating.

Like a poster above mentionned, i believe there is a drop in talent after the 7-8th pick and I wouldn't mind paying the price to move up in this draft. I know draft junkies like to keep all the picks and i love watching the draft when the habs own loads of picks, but our prospect pool isn't so bad (Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi, gallagher and so on...).

Add to that the fact that our team can count on lots of young talent in Pac, Subban, Eller, Desharnais, Leblanc, Emelin, Price and i think moving up in the draft might be a good idea. I'd move some quantity in picks for some quality. Say we finish with the 9th pick(lots of hockey to be played, purely hypothetical)

I'd swap the 9th and 39th for the 7th. I'd even add a bit to get to the 6th.

Just my opinion...what do you think?
If we end up 24th overall?The way the Habs are playing I'm starting to wonder whether or not we should have traded our 1st round pick a week ago for one in 2013.

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02-12-2012, 04:48 PM
  #942
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Saw the Gophers-Pioneers game last night. Laleggia looks like a real gamer. He's also having a fantastic season with 10 goals, 33 points in 30 games as a freshman.

Is he still draft elligible or is he an undrafted free agent only next year?

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02-12-2012, 10:35 PM
  #943
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What do you guys think of Brendan Gaunce? I've seen him play quite a few times this year and he's unreal. He's definitely a top 10 pick in my book.

He's carrying the Bulls this season even if they've been struggling a bit lately. They Bulls have a pretty average offense and he made Austen Brassard and consistent offensive threat somehow. He's one of the best all around player in the draft and probably captain material down the road. He's really stepping it up when it matters and he can drop the gloves when needed as well.

I was surprised to see Zharkov early in the 2nd round in ISS, he doesnt have the best vision both with and without the puck. If he can improve that he will be really good tho, sick shot and he's pretty intense. He's just out position quite a bit sometimes in all 3 zones

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02-12-2012, 10:50 PM
  #944
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I'm torn between Gaunce and Faksa... I like both a lot and I think they are good options if we are in the 8-12 range.

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02-12-2012, 11:08 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I'm torn between Gaunce and Faksa... I like both a lot and I think they are good options if we are in the 8-12 range.
I would rather have Faksa... Nothing against Gaunce but I would love a czech-one-two in Pleky and Faksa.

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02-12-2012, 11:13 PM
  #946
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For the longest time in recent memory the Habs have been out of the playoff picture.If the Habs do miss the mark,then it would be in their best interests to get as many choices for the 2013 draft as they can.Teams will be more inclined to trade higher picks for next year,especially if they can fill a need through signing UFA's in the summer.So my hope is that Gauthier can swing a deal for a #1st round pick,by trading our potential UFA's early or a combination of player's and picks giving Timmins and the scouting staff a better chance next year with say six picks in the first three rounds similar to what Tallon did in Florida without losing any of the young core.It's driving me crazy the way the team has played this year,the feeling of a lottery pick and then winning four games that may put that dream to rest.The Habs need a top end talent,a player with speed, skill,size and vision,a player that is usually a top three pick.Like a Mark Messier type of player that can incite his teammates by hits and gamebreaking plays.So let's swing for the next one by the collection of draft picks for 2013 maybe Nathan MacKinnon could be that player.If not there should be quite a few really top end forwards next year possibly a really good defenceman that could step into the line-up like Seth Jones.

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02-12-2012, 11:48 PM
  #947
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Only issue with 2013 picks is that you are waiting an extra year before these guys make an impact in your lineup.

If you are talking about a 2013 2nd rounder.

Its 1 year before you can even draft the kid.
Plus 2 years in the CHL
Plus 1-2 years in the AHL of development for a 2nd rounder

You're looking at 5 years before the kid makes an NHL impact.

As for 2013 first rounders, with the potential that pick is MacKinnon, I highly doubt any team is moving their picks now, just too much risk.

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02-12-2012, 11:53 PM
  #948
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I would think Faksa has the higher offensive upside of the two.

Gaunce is a great teammate and leader, but watching his fights, he doesn't win very often lol.

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02-13-2012, 12:02 AM
  #949
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I would think Faksa has the higher offensive upside of the two.

Gaunce is a great teammate and leader, but watching his fights, he doesn't win very often lol.
Both Faksa and Gaunce seem to have 2nd line upside, I'm not sure either is in the class of Galchenyuk, and I'd do anything possible to make sure I get my hands on him.

Add multiple picks at the Trade Deadline, cause they will be the ammo you will need to trade up (if trading up becomes necessary).

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02-13-2012, 12:03 AM
  #950
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Jonathan Diaby is wrecking ball. Do want. He's a 2013 though, right?

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