HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

#55|Feb. 11, 2012|Rangers at Flyers|1:00 p.m. ET

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-12-2012, 06:02 AM
  #826
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 16,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Funny how Kimmo's words suggest the team is split again. Funny how some of the players that were moved actually played well defensively. Lavi's system is just not good enough when you don't think of defense as something important. Just in watching 24/7 you can see that Torts has a far better finger on the team's pulse than Lavi does. He sits guys out for playing badly which is something Lavi should have done early in the season. He should have done it to Briere for his lacklustre play and his repeated stupid penalties but it seems he won't ever go against the older guys.
His system was just fine when we had a healthy pronger.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 06:08 AM
  #827
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
His system was just fine when we had a healthy pronger.
I don't agree. There was no team defense and you knew it was just a matter of time that teams would expose it. When the games are on the line, defense tightens up and offense is stifled.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 06:16 AM
  #828
Orange Crush 89
Registered User
 
Orange Crush 89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Torts till sit a player for a period if they make a big mistake. He will move a player down the lineup if hes struggling but playing hard and smart (ie, cant score) if your line is playing well in that game, he's going to keep rolling it out, even if it isnt the most skilled line. if all the lines are playing like crap, he switches everything up.
Or, or or or, we could give you Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky for Lundqvist and we can see if Torts' magic still looks Pottertastic.

Orange Crush 89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 07:18 AM
  #829
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I don't agree. There was no team defense and you knew it was just a matter of time that teams would expose it. When the games are on the line, defense tightens up and offense is stifled.
Team defense was pretty good in the 2010 playoffs...

We don't have the personnel to play good team defense right now. I thought we all knew this coming into the season. It started with losing Betts and Lappy, and then got worse with Carter and Richards being moved. Pronger going down was pretty much it for our ability to play effective team defense consistently.

Protest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 07:29 AM
  #830
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Valley View Post
From a Rangers fan's perspective, I don't see how Bobrovsky was the problem for y'all. Flyers were chasing pucks down low all afternoon and leaving people wide open to finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Ranger fan here.

just a quick comment.

Considering the ridiculous level of injuries you guys have had this season, coupled with the crazy amount of turnover from the offseason...from an outsiders point of view, its tough to be pissed off about a team only a 3 game swing out of the best record in the East.
Man, when it takes Rangers' fans to make sense, you know it's gotten bad. The game last night was a bad game, they happen. Especially when you're playing with as many rookies as we are doing. Didn't we all pretty much expect this time of the year to be very difficult for the team anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I am old school. That crap stays in house. If he is supposed to be a team leader well I guess he is not doing his job very well. Because what I take from his comments is that at least two of his d partners are dogging it among others. There is nothing worse than hanging your dirty laundry out in the media. Guys will not forget this.This team sure does miss it's captian. But going public will only fracture this team more and with all these rookies playing right now their heads must be really spining. The Philly media is just loving Kimmo.I wonder now how much longer Danny keeps his "A". At least Matt Read said he was not playing well the other day. Kimmo should look in a mirror. We are officially in the dog days of the season.
While I agree that it's usually better to keep things inside the room, I hope our guys have thicker skin than to be hurt by what Timonen said here. They must know that that was a bad game, and that their heads weren't really in it yesterday or they wouldn't have made so many mistakes. Maybe the flu thing is a bit more serious than just Bryzgalov being out? There were a few guys who looked really tired in the third period.

As for Timonen looking in the mirror. He had a bad game himself last night, but I don't think anyone can argue that it's something wrong with his compete level.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 07:31 AM
  #831
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Team defense was pretty good in the 2010 playoffs...

We don't have the personnel to play good team defense right now. I thought we all knew this coming into the season. It started with losing Betts and Lappy, and then got worse with Carter and Richards being moved. Pronger going down was pretty much it for our ability to play effective team defense consistently.
Agreed to some extent, add in Gagné and Powe as well. We can definitely do better than yesterday though. The games against Toronto and the Islanders were pretty good defensively.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 09:46 AM
  #832
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Agreed to some extent, add in Gagné and Powe as well. We can definitely do better than yesterday though. The games against Toronto and the Islanders were pretty good defensively.
Yea definitely Gagne as well since he was also a top line forward. We're still going to get good defensive games because Timonen and Coburn are very good/solid d men, and because we have a team that competes hard. We just don't have as many guys that understand how to play defense at a high level.

I think that goes along with having a young team. Certain guys have an innate understanding how to play defense, like Richards or Couturier, but a lot of players either lack the necessary effort, or the understanding of how to play effective defense. They have to work on it, and they get better at it as time goes on.

If you look at Giroux, he busts his ass a lot, but he also gets lost in his own zone. The effort is there, but the understanding isn't yet. I think that's true for a lot of our younger players.


Last edited by Protest: 02-12-2012 at 09:57 AM.
Protest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 10:31 AM
  #833
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Yea definitely Gagne as well since he was also a top line forward. We're still going to get good defensive games because Timonen and Coburn are very good/solid d men, and because we have a team that competes hard. We just don't have as many guys that understand how to play defense at a high level.

I think that goes along with having a young team. Certain guys have an innate understanding how to play defense, like Richards or Couturier, but a lot of players either lack the necessary effort, or the understanding of how to play effective defense. They have to work on it, and they get better at it as time goes on.

If you look at Giroux, he busts his ass a lot, but he also gets lost in his own zone. The effort is there, but the understanding isn't yet. I think that's true for a lot of our younger players.
I think you are right, outside of Brière and Jagr, maybe JvR as well (though I think he still can learn) no one of our regular forwards are really bad defensively. The problem is that it's only Talbot and Couturier that has a really sound defensive game. A 19 year old rookie shouldn't be your best defensive center, no matter how impressive Couturier has been this season.

I've been impressed with Read's overall play as well, but he is a fairly old rookie, not sure how much better he will become in the next few years, but he should improve somewhat at least. Hartnell is a solid player defensively, Simmonds I think could become a really good two-way forward if he focuses on becoming that. Voracek has been better defensively than I expected, but the fact that he is used on the pk probably has more to do with our lack of good forwards in those situations than it has to do with his play. I'm a bit surprised that we don't use Schenn at all on the pk, btw.

Giroux can definitely become a better player defensively, but if we want him to become that we also have to accept that his offensive numbers will most likely drop a little. Often when he creates breakaways it is because he is cheating a bit defensively, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. His play in our own zone will probably get better just with experience, he's acting a bit like a winger at times still. I don't think he will ever be at the level of Richards (or Couturier), as you say some players just have that understanding, but if he improves and Schenn and Couturier develops as we hope then we'll have three centers who are strong in all zones.

If we in the 2013-14 season can have this forward group more or less intact and add one or two strong defenders, then we'll be a great team.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 10:45 AM
  #834
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,359
vCash: 500
If we even wins three of the five games against the Rags this season we're right up there with them instead of being a middle-of-the-pack, in danger of missing the playoffs team.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 11:43 AM
  #835
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastate View Post
This is a joke right?
that was in response to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Yeah. He better apologize for the BUM imploding.
in my view, neither 'imploded'. but to demand Bryz cover for the mistakes, and absolve Bob from doing is LOL worthy

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 04:26 PM
  #836
zarley zelepukin
Registered User
 
zarley zelepukin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Norristown, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Yea definitely Gagne as well since he was also a top line forward. We're still going to get good defensive games because Timonen and Coburn are very good/solid d men, and because we have a team that competes hard. We just don't have as many guys that understand how to play defense at a high level.

If you look at Giroux, he busts his ass a lot, but he also gets lost in his own zone. The effort is there, but the understanding isn't yet. I think that's true for a lot of our younger players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I think you are right, outside of Brière and Jagr, maybe JvR as well (though I think he still can learn) no one of our regular forwards are really bad defensively. The problem is that it's only Talbot and Couturier that has a really sound defensive game. A 19 year old rookie shouldn't be your best defensive center, no matter how impressive Couturier has been this season.
I totally agree with both of you. Look at some of the players who we've moved over the last couple years- Carter, Richards, Gagne, Betts, Nodl, Powe- all guys who helped in the defensive zone. Talbot can't replace them all obviously, so we've got an issue with team defense now. I don't think Lavi's system is necessarily a problem, as long as you have good players in the defensive end. It's not a system like the Devils or Rangers play where team defense is a stress point. Without players who are instinctive, experienced and able in the defensive zone, you get the kind of breakdowns we've been seeing a lot of.

zarley zelepukin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 06:11 PM
  #837
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
I totally agree with both of you. Look at some of the players who we've moved over the last couple years- Carter, Richards, Gagne, Betts, Nodl, Powe- all guys who helped in the defensive zone. Talbot can't replace them all obviously, so we've got an issue with team defense now. I don't think Lavi's system is necessarily a problem, as long as you have good players in the defensive end. It's not a system like the Devils or Rangers play where team defense is a stress point. Without players who are instinctive, experienced and able in the defensive zone, you get the kind of breakdowns we've been seeing a lot of.
You need good defensive forwards in his system.

flyersfan187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 06:27 PM
  #838
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,980
vCash: 500
So basically it's not legitimate to question Lavi because if the Flyers had better goaltending, better defenseman, better forwards, and no injuries, his system would work great.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 06:29 PM
  #839
Icedog2735
Registered User
 
Icedog2735's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stratford, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
If we even wins three of the five games against the Rags this season we're right up there with them instead of being a middle-of-the-pack, in danger of missing the playoffs team.
I understand we haven't played well of late but we currently have the 3rd best record in the East, 2nd if we win tonight.

Icedog2735 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2012, 09:09 PM
  #840
zarley zelepukin
Registered User
 
zarley zelepukin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Norristown, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
So basically it's not legitimate to question Lavi because if the Flyers had better goaltending, better defenseman, better forwards, and no injuries, his system would work great.
Uh, no, I believe you missed the point. His system is just not meant to cover for a team full of guys who are not particularly good at defense.

zarley zelepukin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.