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Trade Deadline Approaching: Defender?

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:07 AM
  #126
GoneFullHextall
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this defensive group as a whole is soft as hell. Opposing players just go to the net and stand their unchecked or unmarked. teams are going to do this more and more until the Flyers do something about it.
I dont think they do something drastic until the offseason. Quite honestly, outside of Timonen I wouldnt shed one tear if the defense is blown up. Of course I am excluding Pronger from that list because I dont expect him back. I hate this defensive core.

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02-12-2012, 09:31 AM
  #127
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Its more then just the dmen that need an upgrade. The forwards are brutal defensively too. I like the Richards + Carter trades but for all the praise Coots + Read get they are rookies and play like it. Simmonds and even Voracek can be brutal too.
I can't remember the last time I jave seen so many passes go through the box that lead to goals. These guys are all over the place.

This team is too young. I wouldn't go all in but they could make a couple of pick ups that would change the make uf the team.

TB - picks + low level prospect
PHI - Kubina + Hall
Kubina has size, good Shot and exper. Hall size solid Def and good on faceoffs.

COL/EDM - pick
PHI - sutton or SOB

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:41 AM
  #128
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i think we all expected that this group of forwards would be weaker defensively then in recent years. I just hoped the defense would be better as a group and hopefully make up for some of the lost defense on the forwards. Losing Pronger sure didnt help, but my God I didnt expect this group to be this bad as a whole.

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02-12-2012, 09:43 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
Well, I think it's pretty defendable that Briere is one of the bests playoffs performers we have at the moment, if not the best one. Briere needs to find chemistry with a new line, which is why he's producing a bit less this season than before, but if he does, it will be lethal in the playoffs. His locker room presence is also very important, remember what the team said about his speech last year against Buffalo, game 6? Add that to the fact that he lives with Couturier, and used to live with Giroux. I'm telling you, his presence is a big + in the playoffs.
We'll see. Last year against Buffalo he did well, but he had incentive because it was his old team. Then against Boston, Lavi kept putting him against the Krejci line and he was horrid. He has to put up a ton of points to look good because he's so bad defensively and takes stupid penalties.

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02-12-2012, 10:40 AM
  #130
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Sutton reupped with Edmonton today. Looks like he's off the possible list.

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02-12-2012, 10:42 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
Sutton reupped with Edmonton today. Looks like he's off the possible list.
Thank God for that

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02-12-2012, 10:48 AM
  #132
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Thank God for that
Yeah I didn't want him either.

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02-12-2012, 10:55 AM
  #133
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If this was the truth and i'm not doubting you I would be a happy happy man. Not so much about the Mez thing for mark stuart but Carle to Chicago(Eh maybe I wouldn't mind Mark Stuart). Maybe for a 1st or something?? He would be the best available dman if he was on the block I believe right?
Carle would be the best defender on the block. But, and there's a huge one with regards to Carle, any team wanting to acquire Carle will have to realize that he and his agent are seeking a significant pay day. They are looking at something similar to what Wisniewski signed with Columbus. I know that Carle's agent went to Holmgren with a 5 and 7 year proposal (5 years/$28 million, 7 years/$36 million) and both were rejected by Holmgren.

So, any team that looks into acquiring Carle will either need to clear cap space or the team that acquires him is going to be a team that are going to package maybe a B level prospect, but with future endeavors if they can sign Carle.

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02-12-2012, 11:04 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Carle would be the best defender on the block. But, and there's a huge one with regards to Carle, any team wanting to acquire Carle will have to realize that he and his agent are seeking a significant pay day. They are looking at something similar to what Wisniewski signed with Columbus. I know that Carle's agent went to Holmgren with a 5 and 7 year proposal (5 years/$28 million, 7 years/$36 million) and both were rejected by Holmgren.

So, any team that looks into acquiring Carle will either need to clear cap space or the team that acquires him is going to be a team that are going to package maybe a B level prospect, but with future endeavors if they can sign Carle.
Where was that reported?

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02-12-2012, 11:08 AM
  #135
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Where was that reported?
If those numbers are true, I hope he is traded at the deadline cause we cant afford to give him anywhere near that. And sadly he will most likely get close to that in UFA .

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02-12-2012, 11:25 AM
  #136
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i still dont belive Carle worth those figures...

gunna be interesting to see were he ends and how much.

as long as it isnt here

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02-12-2012, 11:26 AM
  #137
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This is the first I've ever heard of Carle contract negotiatons/numbers. Got a link?

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02-12-2012, 11:30 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Where was that reported?
Frank Sevralli got the ball rolling by saying that talks have been informal at this point and that Carle could be looking for a deal similar to Wisniewski. The scouts who I talk with have stated they heard concrete numbers have been provided to Holmgren and he turned them down very quickly.

No bones about it - Carle is on his way out. He's a decent complimentary player, but he's not a lead pairing defenseman. He just doesn't have the chops defensively to get the job done. If he were just a power play defenseman and if you can cover him up with someone who is a defensive defenseman, you've got a heck of a player. But he isn't $5.5 million a year good and that's the problem with the market right now. Market dictates he gets 5.5 and the Flyers won't pay it. That's why Carle would be such a good fit on a team like Minnesota or Chicago - they have the defenders to cover up for him. The Flyers just don't have those defenders in the lineup.

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02-12-2012, 11:32 AM
  #139
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ok so who hypothetically could we get for Carle from Chicago or Minn?

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02-12-2012, 12:44 PM
  #140
Tim Tebow
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Carle is seeing more minutes than Timonen, but they are pretty sheltered as well. Timonen-Coburn pairing are almost always out against the other teams top line, they are the first pairing out on the pk etc. That said, if we do trade Carle and still intend to compete this season, we would need to add a top 4 guy to replace him.
I could be mistaken I admit I don't always look at this every shift but I feel Carle is seeing the top line more. But ether way when I looked at the ice time stats again I noticed a weird stat...

Average Even Strength TOI

1. Carle (18:30)
2. Coburn (17:59)
3. Meszaros (16:39)
4. Gustafsson (15:14)
5. Bourdon (15:13)
6. Timonen (13:55)


I was looking at other NHL star defenders to compare and no other team does this. Literally every NHL star defender is seeing 18-20 minutes of even strength time a game yet Timonen doesn't even see 14 minutes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerFire View Post
ok so who hypothetically could we get for Carle from Chicago or Minn?
Probably just prospects or picks not likely anyone who is currently on the NHL rosters. I wouldn't be shocked if it turned into a 3 way trade though. Carle goes to someone for picks and/or prospects then we flip those picks or prospects possibly with some of our own for a bigger name defender like Weber or Suter or maybe someone a touch lower like Smid.

I am hesitant to give names but I feel it would go something like that.

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02-12-2012, 12:47 PM
  #141
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Timonen is constantly on special teams, that's why. Flyers are among the most penalized teams in the league, as well as drawing penalties.

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02-12-2012, 12:58 PM
  #142
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Yeah, Timonen has about 4 minutes of sh time per game as well. Plus we've rested him a few times in blowout games (the Columbus game we won 9-2 I think he only played 10 minutes or so total, and then there's been a few others as well).

As for who sees the toughest opponents, I'm sure those of us who likes to look at stats can answer that. I think that Timonen definitely faces tougher opponents even strength. In the Toronto game just recently, they were clearly putting Timonen-Coburn out against the Kessel line for instance.

Edit: Timonen, Coburn and Carle all average about 28 shifts/game, so the extra minute Carle plays can perhaps be explained by him not spending that much time on the PK.

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02-12-2012, 12:58 PM
  #143
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Relevant.

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02-12-2012, 01:08 PM
  #144
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Notice the ice time Hal Gill eats up.

I'm just saying...he's always been the answer.

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02-12-2012, 01:23 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Notice the ice time Hal Gill eats up.

I'm just saying...he's always been the answer.
On the best penalty kill in the league btw.

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02-12-2012, 02:58 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Carle would be the best defender on the block. But, and there's a huge one with regards to Carle, any team wanting to acquire Carle will have to realize that he and his agent are seeking a significant pay day. They are looking at something similar to what Wisniewski signed with Columbus. I know that Carle's agent went to Holmgren with a 5 and 7 year proposal (5 years/$28 million, 7 years/$36 million) and both were rejected by Holmgren.

So, any team that looks into acquiring Carle will either need to clear cap space or the team that acquires him is going to be a team that are going to package maybe a B level prospect, but with future endeavors if they can sign Carle.

I'm not surprised at all. I started looking at the market when Coburn was re-upped, and came to the conclusion that Carle should be looking for a Wisniewski-like deal when he hit the market. That doesn't fit into the Flyers plans. Combined with our need to get more stalwart on defense, I think Holmgren should seriously consider moving Carle for a 2nd round pick plus another conditional pick or a prospect (the asking price should be relatively high, given how Carle stacks up to the rental market). Holmgren can then turn around and use those assets to help cover the cost of acquiring at least 2 more d-men (one crease-clearer, and one puck-moving two-way type). The Flyers may be able to take on $10 M in annual cap hits at the deadline depending on LTIR credits and how they manage their contracts.

Edit: Defense rebuild wackiness

Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Grossman
Visnovsky/Zidlicky-Gill/Allen
Lilja


Carle to Chicago for a 2nd round pick and a conditional pick of Carle re-signs
Grossman to Philadelphia for Chicago's 2nd round pick
Visnovsky or Zidlicky for Marc-Andre Bourdon and a 3rd round pick
Gill/Allen for a 3rd round pick

Out: Carle, Bourdon, two 3rd round picks
In: Visnovsky/Zidlicky, Grossman, Gill/Allen

Or Carle and MAB for Zidlicky and Zannon and a conditional pick and separate trade to bring in a 3rd dman

Does anyone think this isn't crazy?


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 02-12-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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02-12-2012, 03:10 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I'm not surprised at all. I started looking at the market when Coburn was re-upped, and came to the conclusion that Carle should be looking for a Wisniewski-like deal when he hit the market. That doesn't fit into the Flyers plans. Combined with our need to get more stalwart on defense, I think Holmgren should seriously consider moving Carle for a 2nd round pick plus another conditional pick or a prospect (the asking price should be relatively high, given how Carle stacks up to the rental market). Holmgren can then turn around and use those assets to help cover the cost of acquiring at least 2 more d-men (one crease-clearer, and one puck-moving two-way type). The Flyers may be able to take on close to $10 M in annual cap hits at the deadline depending on LTIR credits and how they manage their contracts.
How do you figure that? Capgeek has us at about 4.4 in space right now. Moving Carle would bump that to about 7.8.

http://capgeek.com/trade_deadline_tracker.php

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02-12-2012, 03:15 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
How do you figure that? Capgeek has us at about 4.4 in space right now. Moving Carle would bump that to about 7.8.

http://capgeek.com/trade_deadline_tracker.php
1: You knock off a couple of roster spots (say Bourdon ($875,000) is traded in one of the deals, and Gus ($900,000) is sent back down to the Phantoms for the rest of the regular season).

2: LTIR credits to Pronger and JVR for games they haven't missed yet. Say we get $500,000 more in credits, I believe that works out to approximately $2,000,000 in pro-rated cap space at the deadline (but I'm not exactly sure on that).

Edit: LTIR isn't banked. So if I'm right, that still works out to 7.8 + .875 + .9 + .5 = 10.075

It's possible they may have $10 M in space, but not more.

Double-edit: If I multiply our "maximum daily LTI" by 15 (days until the deadline), should that get us the Flyers remaining LTIR credits? If so:

$37,360*15 =
560,400 U.S. dollars


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 02-12-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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02-12-2012, 05:03 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post

Edit: Defense rebuild wackiness

Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Grossman
Visnovsky/Zidlicky-Gill/Allen
Lilja

Imagine if Kimmo gets too heated by this team and opts to retire.

That would be fun.

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:10 PM
  #150
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Timonen retiring wouldn't be fun in any way.

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