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RC "getting it" the way JM never did... OR NOT

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Old
02-12-2012, 08:58 AM
  #26
LyricalLyricist
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Only praise I give cunneyworth is helping in the development of Eller. Looks like a brand new player. The rest is similar.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
ok, I know it's "just" a 4-game winning streak, and we've had our fair share of luck in the process...


but I would like to point out that, with the team on it's biggest winning streak of the season, 2 highly paid/ineffective vets are getting the kind of minutes their play warrants, as opposed to their age/experience/salary.


Aside from the Pitt overtime game (where Kaberle got 17min), both Gomez and Kaberle have seen their minutes kept under 15min (kaberle)/12min(gomez) in all 4 wins...


RC seems to "get it" in a way that Martin stubbornly never did.

It's one thing to play the guys you trust, or the guys you "think" give you the best chance to win, its another thing to simply default to experience/salary as a rational for ice time.

Gomez and Kaberle, by virtue of their level of performance, are getting the kind of minutes they deserve, yet were Martin still in place, very good chance we'd be seeing both with a lot more minutes.



and yes, I do realize that Martin's record/win% with the team this year was better than RC's... but will be interesting to see how that looks by the end of the year.

RC isn't without his issues as a coach, but given the way he was brought in (and thrown under the bus), and given that this is is first stint as an NHL coach, it only makes sense to give him some time to actually put his "stamp" on the team.

This may just be a small upswing, and this team may remain a sub-500 team the rest of the season, but right now, how they are competing and more importantly, how what their body language & comments suggest about their level of "buy-in" with the team/coach/program, looks way better than it was under Martin... and as some like to point out, at the time of his firing, the team had been having a pretty good month, results-wise, without any noticeable positive reflection from the players.


Guys "get it"... when a coach plays people based on effectiveness/effort, everyone feels better (and those that don't, are exactly the kind of guys you don't win with).

both Gomez & Kaberle, to their credit, don't seem to be pouting about being used sparsely, which says a lot about their character... just hope PG can find a way to get rid of both before next season.
So, did he just get it now?

Kaberle, under RC, has been used just about as much as under JM. Pointing three games out of four because we are on our best winning streak is pretty ridiculous.
Also, it's normal for a player to be used a tad more and given enough chances right after being traded. You will give your new asset every chance possible to perform well. But again, Kaberle's utilization has not changed.

As for Gomez, he played 5 games before getting injured in the 6th game. He missed 3 weeks. It's kind of normal to give Gomez a chance at redemption. Everybody expected him to have a bounce back year and produce his usual 50ish points. He was given that chance, got injured again after having played 13games. During that time, DD and Eller solidified their roles. Since returning Gomez has not outplayed them.
Still, RC did try Gomez as a center on the 3rd and moved Eller on the wing, he also tried him on the top 6 with Plek and Bourque, he also still uses him on the PP.
So, clearly he still doesn't get certain things..


If you know that it's only 4 games and that it's a small sample size, then why make that post?
What if we had lost those games, would you still have come back to say ''RC gets it''?
Because you're lying to yourself if you think the win factor has not swayed your perception. Kaberle is used in the same way. Gomez is still used on the PP.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:48 AM
  #28
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Great job coach.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:51 AM
  #29
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The difference on the 4 game winning streak is actually scoring on the PP.

The only game the habs didn't score on the PP was the game they almost lost in Pittsburgh. Which btw, Pittsburgh came back in the game because they scored a SH goal when it was 2-0. Had the habs scored on the PP it would been 3-0 and been tougher for the Pens to come back. The game would have had a similar story line to the Winnipeg, Toronto and Islanders games.

For once the habs actually put games away. In Winnipeg the score was 2-0 and then the game was put away when Plekanec scored to make it 3-0.

Same in long-island, a 2-0 game became a 3-0 game after Gomez's powerplay goal and was the difference maker in the game.

Last night in Toronto a 2-0 game was put away after Pacioretty scored the third goal on the powerplay, it put Toronto and a big whole and gave the habs a nice cushion.

That's three games where a 2-0 game became a 3-0 game because of the powerplay. I think that is what was the difference maker and what could have been the difference maker all season long.


Last edited by Andy: 02-12-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old
02-12-2012, 10:02 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Only praise I give cunneyworth is helping in the development of Eller. Looks like a brand new player. The rest is similar.
Emelin was getting scratched every second game or benched every time he made a mistake with Martin, he's got better and better with RC because Randy let's him learn from his mistakes and has played him almost every game since he's taken over as head coach.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:34 AM
  #31
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Emelin was getting scratched every second game or benched every time he made a mistake with Martin, he's got better and better with RC because Randy let's him learn from his mistakes and has played him almost every game since he's taken over as head coach.
That's unfair. His adjustment to the NA game occured during JM. It's not reflective to point out his starting half as indicative of how JM would've played him in 2nd half.

JM also went to go see Price personally before the season when he first started. Something people forget when discussing JM.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:42 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
That's unfair. His adjustment to the NA game occured during JM. It's not reflective to point out his starting half as indicative of how JM would've played him in 2nd half.

JM also went to go see Price personally before the season when he first started. Something people forget when discussing JM.
How's it unfair? Emelin needed to play and get ice time to adjust to the North American game, how is he going to adjust when he's getting benched every time he makes a mistake? There is no guarantee Martin was going to play him more in the second half.

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02-12-2012, 10:50 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
A honeymoon period? He was promoted right before a 6-game road trip and went something like 1-5 on it. Some honeymoon.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:01 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
How's it unfair? Emelin needed to play and get ice time to adjust to the North American game, how is he going to adjust when he's getting benched every time he makes a mistake? There is no guarantee Martin was going to play him more in the second half.
Stamkos was benched often as a #1 overall rookie. He only became one of the best players in the league.

That's the thing, there's no guarantee Martin wouldn't have. You're speculating. There's no guarantee Cunneyworth would've put Emelin in more often in first half either. This guy was part of the coaching staff. He's not an outsider.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:14 AM
  #35
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One thing that RC does better than JM is reducing the too-much-men-on-the-ice penalty.

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02-12-2012, 11:18 AM
  #36
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If JM had a d-man all season who could qb a pp then this team is in the playoffs and JM still has his job, book it. RC has done fine though its been almost a lateral move in my opinion at this point, I don't like how the firings and trades went this year at all they were panic style moves with little thought for the future imo.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:40 AM
  #37
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I can't say I agree with every decision Cunneyworth has made (not that I would with any coach) and his record is still quite poor, but I'm glad the change was made. Martin was definitely not the reason this team got off to such a terrible start to the season, but I don't miss him one bit.

There have certainly been exceptions, but overall the Canadiens have been far more interesting to watch since Cunneyworth has been behind the bench. It's nice to actually look forward to seeing the games again.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:53 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
Getting badly outshot every night and having a goalie stand on his head is not brilliant strategy.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:59 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Except that Campoli is still playing (I don't care if he's shopped. He's ****), Kaberle plays in the top 4 and Darche is in the top 6.
Darche is playing well, Campoli has been better. Whether you like it or not, it's working so yeah, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:01 PM
  #40
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Stamkos was benched often as a #1 overall rookie. He only became one of the best players in the league.

That's the thing, there's no guarantee Martin wouldn't have. You're speculating. There's no guarantee Cunneyworth would've put Emelin in more often in first half either. This guy was part of the coaching staff. He's not an outsider.
Yea, blaming Martin for scratching Emelin is just foolish. We have Emelin-Gorges-PK-Gill-Kaberle/Spacek-Weber-Campoli-Diaz, it's pretty normal that if Emelin has a rough game, he could sit out so we can give a chance to the others that were scratched instead of him.
It's pretty easy to think we should have just let him play every game, but then, what about Weber/Diaz/Campoli? You can't just let these guys sit, especially when someone like Diaz was playing so well.
Wasn't it Diaz that mentioned last time it helps when you observe the games from the press box as a scratch? I'm sure it helped Emelin as well.

Martin used to get crapped on for doing that with Eller as well. RC did the same damn thing with Eller. He actually benched Eller during a game because he blew a coverage on Datsyuk. Let's not wonder why he was the one given the task of covering Datsyuk's line in the first place. He also got scratched.

So really, the idea that Martin was this big evil coach towards the rookies is just foolish.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:01 PM
  #41
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This is too funny. We've won four in a row....including 3 wins against teams that probably aren't going to make the playoffs and the other win was in a shootout at home. We got outshot 32-18 last night by the Leafs but we won mainly because our goalie played like the star he is and their goalies absolutely stunk. And now we're attributing our recent play to Randy Cunneyworth "getting it" and Jacques Martin (600+ wins) not getting it. Talk about a funny way of looking at the world and drawing conclusions.

This board can be great at times for laugh therapy. Both Randy Cunneyworth and Jacques Martin would have a good laugh if they ever read this thread.

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02-12-2012, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
And what were his brilliant strategies. Let the other team shoot until their arms got tired? You are just recycling the same old BS that every Martin defender has ever used without enlightening us as to what you think those strategies were.

Even with that playoff run, Martin's tenure as the Hab's coach was less than inspiring. Take away Halak's brilliant performance and his record is abysmal. I don't know how long some of you are going to cling to that fairy tale. A long time I suppose.

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02-12-2012, 12:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
This is too funny. We've won four in a row....including 3 wins against teams that probably aren't going to make the playoffs and the other win was in a shootout at home. We got outshot 32-18 last night by the Leafs but we won mainly because our goalie played like the star he is and their goalies absolutely stunk. And now we're attributing our recent play to Randy Cunneyworth "getting it" and Jacques Martin (600+ wins) not getting it. Talk about a funny way of looking at the world and drawing conclusions.

This board can be great at times for laugh therapy. Both Randy Cunneyworth and Jacques Martin would have a good laugh if they ever read this thread.
So we won the last four games because of our superior goaltender and not because the coach has the team playing good hockey... but when we won under Martin (particularly in that famed playoff run) it was because of Martin's superior coaching skills (600+ wins) and nothing to do with Halak?

But let's not give Cunneyworth any credit despite what hockey analysts and the players themselves are saying.

To quote a famous poster Talk about a funny way of looking at the world and drawing conclusions.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
So we won the last four games because of our superior goaltender and not because the coach has the team playing good hockey... but when we won under Martin (particularly in that famed playoff run) it was because of Martin's superior coaching skills (600+ wins) and nothing to do with Halak?

But let's not give Cunneyworth any credit despite what hockey analysts and the players themselves are saying.

To quote a famous poster Talk about a funny way of looking at the world and drawing conclusions.
Did I say anything negative about Cunneyworth? Nope. My point is actually very similar to yours only I was directing it at the Martin bashers who can't seem to move on since his firing. You seem to think I'm bashing Cunneyworth when I'm not.

EDIT: Interesting how if I defend Jacques Martin, it is assumed on this board that I must be against his successor. Reminds me of Price vs Halak, Koivu vs Ribeiro etc.


Last edited by Schooner Guy: 02-12-2012 at 12:47 PM.
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Old
02-12-2012, 12:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Its easy always to blame the former coach... I'll let you know that we went to the semis with JM. And he made brilliant startegies againts the Pens and Wash. RC was bound to have a honeymoon period like any new coach
If you call great strategy sitting back and take punches while relying heavily for your goaltender to play lights out and for your PP to be opportunistic, then by all mean, Martin is a genious. I sure don't see a lucky and timely playoffs' push as strategy myself.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:54 PM
  #46
Schooner Guy
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If you call great strategy sitting back and take punches while relying heavily for your goaltender to play lights out and for your PP to be opportunistic, then by all mean, Martin is a genious. I sure don't see a lucky and timely playoffs' push as strategy myself.
You must do what you can with the hand you've been dealt. How else was that Habs team going to eliminate Washington and Pittsburgh? Let's not forget the Habs did a great job in the neutral zone in both those series. The Caps and Pens superstars rarely moved into our zone with any steam.

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Old
02-12-2012, 01:05 PM
  #47
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
You must do what you can with the hand you've been dealt. How else was that Habs team going to eliminate Washington and Pittsburgh? Let's not forget the Habs did a great job in the neutral zone in both those series. The Caps and Pens superstars rarely moved into our zone with any steam.
People can't really properly judge that playoff run.
Saying we just kicked back and let the opponents go to work is as foolish as saying Martin was a master strategist during that run.

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Old
02-12-2012, 01:06 PM
  #48
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
You must do what you can with the hand you've been dealt. How else was that Habs team going to eliminate Washington and Pittsburgh? Let's not forget the Habs did a great job in the neutral zone in both those series. The Caps and Pens superstars rarely moved into our zone with any steam.
and making sure the shooting lanes were clear so that halak could stop them, keeping the the large bulk of the shots from the outside. but if you point this out, it's because you are blind and dirty dirty martin-lover.

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Old
02-12-2012, 01:12 PM
  #49
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After four straight win, it's only normal to praise RC over JM......LOL

The fact is .....The players can't force management to fire the coach!
The fact is.....The coach is not afraid to get fired ether!
What's left???
GET ALONG and play as highly paid professionals that you are!

No more pouting, just attitude like....What can I do to help...The worse rat has been satisfied and others ( non rat) will go as well...At least I hope so.

We need solid improvement and we need to keep our focus on that aspect mostly in my views...That means, if we can send some players to help other teams in order to progress in the long run, That is the way to go!

If we loose players for draft picks, I'm sure someone will be happy to blame RC if we have a 3 game loosing streak....lol

Crying over Martin or trying to pedestal Randy is not productive.They both were operating under different circumstances with sensibly the same team....

RC is DEFINITIVELY a better communicator and I wish him the best but not too much success .Lol....Wishing for a high draft pick....lol.

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Old
02-12-2012, 01:17 PM
  #50
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^ pretty sure you forgot a 'lol' or two in your post

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