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Habs beat Leafs 5-0 | Price with a SO on Mats Sundin night

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02-12-2012, 01:08 PM
  #226
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
In the early to mid 2000's they assembled a lot of pretty solid veteran teams. Guys were maybe a bit past their prime, but much much better than the Habs were. Thinking of Koivu's linemates I can come up with Brian Savage/Oleg Petrov, Chad Kilger/Sergei Berezin I think the year he returned from illness, Zednik/Whoever, maybe Nicklas Sundstrom for a bit . I guess Kovalev, occasionally, and Higgins/Ryder was a decent set of linemates for a while.
Just to fill in the gaps for you, Koivu's top two sets of linemates (as far back as I can prove):

'03/04: Bulis/Ryder, Zednik/Perreault
'05/06: Higgins/Ryder, Kovalev/Zednik
'06/07: Higgins/Ryder, Latendresse/Ryder
'07/08: Higgins/Ryder, Higgins/A.Kost
'08/09: Higgins/D'Agostini, Tanguay/Kovalev

I think I'm correct in remembering '02/03 as being Bulis/Zednik, and it was the missed year before that. The 2000s weren't really that bad for Koivu in terms of linemates. The only really, really dark spots I can remember are in that '99/00 area (Recchi and Damphousse left town), and maybe that one season or so Koivu was surrounded by worse than Sundin ever was.

Still despite the relative suckitude of linemates being about equal, let's say, Sundin deserves props for still being the consistent PPG guy he was every year, regardless.

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02-12-2012, 01:17 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Just to fill in the gaps for you, Koivu's top two sets of linemates (as far back as I can prove):

'03/04: Bulis/Ryder, Zednik/Perreault
'05/06: Higgins/Ryder, Kovalev/Zednik
'06/07: Higgins/Ryder, Latendresse/Ryder
'07/08: Higgins/Ryder, Higgins/A.Kost
'08/09: Higgins/D'Agostini, Tanguay/Kovalev

I think I'm correct in remembering '02/03 as being Bulis/Zednik, and it was the missed year before that. The 2000s weren't really that bad for Koivu in terms of linemates. The only really, really dark spots I can remember are in that '99/00 area (Recchi and Damphousse left town), and maybe that one season or so Koivu was surrounded by worse than Sundin ever was.

Still despite the relative suckitude of linemates being about equal, let's say, Sundin deserves props for still being the consistent PPG guy he was every year, regardless.
Cool, thanks. No disrespect to Sundin he was a wonderful player. I've gone through the Leafs rosters the last few years. Ironically once they realized they needed to surround Sundin, Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker, Roberts (their core basically + all star goalie, either Belfour or Joseph) they started moving all of those picks and assembled a friggin (over the hill, but nonetheless) all star team. Nolan, Niewendyk, Mogilny (UFA if I remember correctly, but still..), Leetch, Francis, etc were all on the same team for one playoff run. Damn.

They moved a lot for those players to help out Mats, etc. and it really hurt their prospect cupboard for a while. Ironically those same core players never wanted to be dealt when the time came and they could have really helped to re-stock the Leafs system.

Oh well.

It's amazing how much this league has changed. Habs used to roll third lines of veterans like Dackell - Juneau - Sundstrom, or Bulis - Bonk - Johnson. Now it's Eller holding down that role..

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02-12-2012, 01:42 PM
  #228
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Kaberle has now 14 pts in 27 games with the Habs.

Spacek has 5 pts in 19 games with the Canes.

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02-12-2012, 01:55 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Kaberle has now 14 pts in 27 games with the Habs.

Spacek has 5 pts in 19 games with the Canes.
Maybe Gauthier isn't as fatuous as the adolescents who constantly impugn his judgment and fail to give him credit for trying to right the leaky boat abandoned by Gainey. I'd say the present day Habs are better than the team that was eliminated by the Bruins last April. (Doubters should compare the rosters.) If Markov's knee had mended in time they would be comfortably in the top eight in the East.

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02-12-2012, 02:23 PM
  #230
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Kaberle has now 14 pts in 27 games with the Habs.

Spacek has 5 pts in 19 games with the Canes.
Ironically, though, I believe the Canes have a better record than the Habs over that time span.

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02-12-2012, 02:34 PM
  #231
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Feels good beating those powder puffs.A few more games against them should earn us a playoff birth.
Seems i'm not allowed to call the Leafs team powderpuff on the main board. I got kicked out of a Habs related thread for using it. I must of hurt their feelings yet they can say what they want about the Habs.

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02-12-2012, 02:37 PM
  #232
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Leaf nation is a mess today...not sure why they still call the Habs smurfs? Their best players are Grabo and Kessell, not exactly big guys...

Fire Wilson, Burkie's an idiot...blah, blah, blah...

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02-12-2012, 02:47 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Kaberle has now 14 pts in 27 games with the Habs.

Spacek has 5 pts in 19 games with the Canes.
Spacek's contract end this year. Canes win. Kaberle was supposed to help the PP. Kaberle doesn't bring what is needed from that D which is toughness, clearing crease abilities, and winning battles along the boards.

Again, some had their reservation with his play this year. But most likely about the other 2 years left in his contract. So I don't see the comparison here. As if people said that Spacek was better offensively? Not sure I heard that.

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02-12-2012, 02:58 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Spacek's contract end this year. Canes win. Kaberle was supposed to help the PP. Kaberle doesn't bring what is needed from that D which is toughness, clearing crease abilities, and winning battles along the boards.

Again, some had their reservation with his play this year. But most likely about the other 2 years left in his contract. So I don't see the comparison here. As if people said that Spacek was better offensively? Not sure I heard that.
Cap space don't win cup, and we'll be better off with Kaberle next year than they will be with the cap space they get for spacek

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02-12-2012, 03:00 PM
  #235
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Cap space don't win cup, and we'll be better off with Kaberle next year than they will be with the cap space they get for spacek
Kaberle's play last year didn't win the cup either. And who talks about comparing our situation to their's? I believe we would have been better off WITHOUT Kaberle AND the cap space than with him. And cap space, while it doesn't automatically give you a cup, if spend wisely, surely helps you. Key point is...IF SPEND WISELY.

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02-12-2012, 03:02 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Cap space don't win cup, and we'll be better off with Kaberle next year than they will be with the cap space they get for spacek
Load of ****. Kaberle is ****ing useless. I'd rather have an able bottom pair not an out of shape afraid of his shadow defenseman and ******* Campoli. WS is right. Our only hope, as fans, is that he's tradeable without bringing back another cap dump.

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02-12-2012, 03:05 PM
  #237
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Interesting thought about Habs vs. Leafs..

There are a handful of players on our team who could "feel" like captains. Gorges, Gionta, Cole, Price, some might say Gill (off the ice, at least) eventually Pacioretty and heck maybe even Pernell Karl, probably. I can't think of one player on the Leafs who plays like a captain, or who I would ever want to be ours.

I like Gomez' quote from the paper the other day, "We're going to make it interesting".

Hope we continue to remain on fire and pass them and hop into 8th.

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02-12-2012, 03:05 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Load of ****. Kaberle is ****ing useless. I'd rather have an able bottom pair not an out of shape afraid of his shadow defenseman and ******* Campoli. WS is right. Our only hope, as fans, is that he's tradeable without bringing back another cap dump.
I'll take the 40 + pt D-man.As long as Kabs continues to put around 40+ pts next season he isn't hurting us.

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02-12-2012, 03:06 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Load of ****. Kaberle is ****ing useless. I'd rather have an able bottom pair not an out of shape afraid of his shadow defenseman and ******* Campoli. WS is right. Our only hope, as fans, is that he's tradeable without bringing back another cap dump.
ya, your probably right, cap space wins cup, sorry for the interjection

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02-12-2012, 03:08 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Load of ****. Kaberle is ****ing useless. I'd rather have an able bottom pair not an out of shape afraid of his shadow defenseman and ******* Campoli. WS is right. Our only hope, as fans, is that he's tradeable without bringing back another cap dump.
Campoli moved the puck well last night. Made some nice stretch passes to surging forwards. Runs around in his own zone, but seems to be playing better. December and early January was basically his training camp. Focus on the positives in his game, it's easy to pick players apart, why not focus on their strengths.

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02-12-2012, 03:42 PM
  #241
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I'll take the 40 + pt D-man.As long as Kabs continues to put around 40+ pts next season he isn't hurting us.
Yep, I wasn't crazy about the Kaberle trade, because I still think the Habs need to get tougher on the back end, but pair Kaberle with the right guy, and he certainly doesn't hurt you. I really don't get all the hate that the guy takes....he is what he is....a soft, puck moving defenceman.

The real problem is that the Habs have too many of those.

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02-12-2012, 03:48 PM
  #242
donghabs98
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I love that little video they had on cbc of young pk. He's still doing the same moves lol
i know

he never changed

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02-12-2012, 05:30 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Kaberle's play last year didn't win the cup either. And who talks about comparing our situation to their's? I believe we would have been better off WITHOUT Kaberle AND the cap space than with him. And cap space, while it doesn't automatically give you a cup, if spend wisely, surely helps you. Key point is...IF SPEND WISELY.
Kaberle's play didn't win the Cup but he was dressed for every single game of four playoff rounds and has his name engraved on the Cup. For the Bruins, he served his purpose. He looks fairly comfortable with the Habs. As for cap room, the Cammalleri trade opened up quite a bit for this season..

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02-12-2012, 06:19 PM
  #244
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Well, just to see Sundin's pov...
Btw, yes, Sundin did play with a lot of elite players...but he mostly only played with them when they were over the hill and could barely play...generally when those players weren't very effective at least offensively.

95 Sundin 83pts | Gilmour (72pts), Larry Murphy (61pts)
96 Sundin 94pts | Gilmour (61gp, 60pts)
97 Sundin 74pts | Garbage
98 Sundin 83pts | Steve Thomas (73pts)
99 Sundin 73pts | Steve Thomas (63pts), Kaberle (40pts)
00 Sundin 74pts | Kaberle 45pts
01 Sundin 80pts | Mogilny (66gp, 57pts), McCabe (43pts), Kaberle (39pts)
02 Sundin 72pts | Mogilny (79pts), Kaberle (47pts)
03 Sundin 75pts | McCabe (53pts), Nieuwendyk (64gp, 50pts), Mogilny (37gp, 30pts)
05 Sundin 78pts | McCabe (68pts), Kaberle (67pts)
06 Sundin 76pts | Kaberle (58pts), McCabe (57pts)
07 Sundin 78pts | Kaberle (53pts)

Anyone left out were barely influential, at least from the offensive point of view...unless you want to list all those huge glut of 25-50 pts players...
The way I see it, just like Koivu, Sundin really did play with crap +/- one good forward per year if any at all. And besides one real good year with Mogilny, all the others were with good forwards in their twilight years just before retirement. His most consistent players he played with over the years were Kaberle and McCabe...
Frankly Koivu's and Sundin's career looks fairly similar just that Sundin was more solid (tougher, healthier, consistent). The Leafs also seemed to have tried to pair Sundin with better players way more than the Habs did with Koivu, though the results were pretty much the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Just to fill in the gaps for you, Koivu's top two sets of linemates (as far back as I can prove):

'03/04: Bulis/Ryder, Zednik/Perreault
'05/06: Higgins/Ryder, Kovalev/Zednik
'06/07: Higgins/Ryder, Latendresse/Ryder
'07/08: Higgins/Ryder, Higgins/A.Kost
'08/09: Higgins/D'Agostini, Tanguay/Kovalev

I think I'm correct in remembering '02/03 as being Bulis/Zednik, and it was the missed year before that. The 2000s weren't really that bad for Koivu in terms of linemates. The only really, really dark spots I can remember are in that '99/00 area (Recchi and Damphousse left town), and maybe that one season or so Koivu was surrounded by worse than Sundin ever was.

Still despite the relative suckitude of linemates being about equal, let's say, Sundin deserves props for still being the consistent PPG guy he was every year, regardless.

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02-12-2012, 06:20 PM
  #245
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by donghabs98 View Post
i know

he never changed
Lol, that was a great video

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02-12-2012, 10:35 PM
  #246
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
Focus on the positives in his game, it's easy to pick players apart, why not focus on their strengths.
because then you're labeled as a fanboy

like being able to see both sides of a play/player is a bad thing. on HF, if you don't speak in absolutes, you're wrong.

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02-12-2012, 10:42 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Leaf nation is a mess today...not sure why they still call the Habs smurfs? Their best players are Grabo and Kessell, not exactly big guys...

Fire Wilson, Burkie's an idiot...blah, blah, blah...
I'm not sure about why they continue to call the Habs smurfs either? It's like they're so caught up in their team they don't know whats going on anywhere else in the NHL..

Considering all the trash talk and gloating from Leaf fans here at HF for the first 20 games or so this panic looks good on them..

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:18 AM
  #248
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
Interesting thought about Habs vs. Leafs..

There are a handful of players on our team who could "feel" like captains. Gorges, Gionta, Cole, Price, some might say Gill (off the ice, at least) eventually Pacioretty and heck maybe even Pernell Karl, probably. I can't think of one player on the Leafs who plays like a captain, or who I would ever want to be ours.

I like Gomez' quote from the paper the other day, "We're going to make it interesting".

Hope we continue to remain on fire and pass them and hop into 8th.
Pretty much half our team could wear at least the "A" and it would feel appropriate. I do like how we emphasize character.

Here you could argue there's better options than Gionta, but at least our captain isn't Phaneuf!

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02-13-2012, 02:56 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
A few points on last nights game:

-Goal scorers: Cole-Pacioretty-Bourque-Eller all 6'2" and Darche 6'1", who said the habs were small?
-Where's the people saying Pleks doesn't have vision, two beautiful assists on great passes by him
-Darche is in beast mode
-Price makes goaltending look easy
-Kaberle looking great out there moving pucks out of our zone
-The team had a game plan to "bring it" and did not take the foot off the pedal even though that first period could of put anyone to sleep. Props to Cunneyworth and co.
Not what I saw. Habs played a tight Martin-like defensive system all night to avoid Toronto's speed. They played exactly in a way that Martin would have done.

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