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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist

View Poll Results: Who ya got?
Mike Richter 83 30.97%
Henrik Lundqvist 185 69.03%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:29 AM
  #301
Rangers Fail
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For those saying that Hank is just an elite regular season goalie-there's a flaw in that argument. How come he's never had home ice in a playoff series? Rangers needed to win their last game of the season AND Carolina to lose so that they could get into the playoffs last year, and we all know what happened in 2010.
The team wasn't expected to have a deep playoff run in any of his previous years.
Yes, occasionally, a Halak will come and do the unpredicted, but both of his series wins were in 7 games-could go either way. Plus, MTL scoring 5 goals in game 7 against PIT helped too.
This is the first time Hank's team is expected to make some noise in the playoffs, so let's see what happens.

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02-12-2012, 10:42 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
For those saying that Hank is just an elite regular season goalie-there's a flaw in that argument. How come he's never had home ice in a playoff series? Rangers needed to win their last game of the season AND Carolina to lose so that they could get into the playoffs last year, and we all know what happened in 2010.
The team wasn't expected to have a deep playoff run in any of his previous years.
Yes, occasionally, a Halak will come and do the unpredicted, but both of his series wins were in 7 games-could go either way. Plus, MTL scoring 5 goals in game 7 against PIT helped too.
This is the first time Hank's team is expected to make some noise in the playoffs, so let's see what happens.
This is what I've said for a long time. It's not a fair criteria to judge Lundqvist upon. When have the Rangers ever went in as the favorite to the series since Lundqvist has been here? Against the Thrashers (and they finished with a better record than us). That's it. And the Rangers had swept that series.

You look at our last few entries into the post season, we slid into #8 to face the #1 seed Washington Capitals. A match up that Lundqvist is going to win? Probably not. The year before that, we slide into #7 to face... You guessed it, the #2 seed Washington Capitals and Henrik was able to take that to 7 games.

In 07-08, we head into the playoffs, beat the Devils and lose to the #2 seed Pittsburgh Penguins who later went onto the SCF. 06-07 was the year we faced the Thrashers, won, and had a 6 game set against the Presidents Trophy Buffalo Sabres.

When has Lundqvist ever been on a team truly built to make a deep run in the playoffs? He hasn't had home ice once in his career. In contrast, Richter had a Presidents Trophy team and was able to win the SC with them putting up an excellent performance. But until Lundqvist has the same shot, which he might this year, it's not fair to compare his playoff accolades to Richter.

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02-12-2012, 11:00 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
For those saying that Hank is just an elite regular season goalie-there's a flaw in that argument. How come he's never had home ice in a playoff series? Rangers needed to win their last game of the season AND Carolina to lose so that they could get into the playoffs last year, and we all know what happened in 2010.
The team wasn't expected to have a deep playoff run in any of his previous years.
Yes, occasionally, a Halak will come and do the unpredicted, but both of his series wins were in 7 games-could go either way. Plus, MTL scoring 5 goals in game 7 against PIT helped too.
This is the first time Hank's team is expected to make some noise in the playoffs, so let's see what happens.
I think thats the bottom line.

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02-12-2012, 11:38 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
This is what I've said for a long time. It's not a fair criteria to judge Lundqvist upon. When have the Rangers ever went in as the favorite to the series since Lundqvist has been here? Against the Thrashers (and they finished with a better record than us). That's it. And the Rangers had swept that series.

You look at our last few entries into the post season, we slid into #8 to face the #1 seed Washington Capitals. A match up that Lundqvist is going to win? Probably not. The year before that, we slide into #7 to face... You guessed it, the #2 seed Washington Capitals and Henrik was able to take that to 7 games.

In 07-08, we head into the playoffs, beat the Devils and lose to the #2 seed Pittsburgh Penguins who later went onto the SCF. 06-07 was the year we faced the Thrashers, won, and had a 6 game set against the Presidents Trophy Buffalo Sabres.

When has Lundqvist ever been on a team truly built to make a deep run in the playoffs? He hasn't had home ice once in his career. In contrast, Richter had a Presidents Trophy team and was able to win the SC with them putting up an excellent performance. But until Lundqvist has the same shot, which he might this year, it's not fair to compare his playoff accolades to Richter.
I agree, to some extent.

I think home ice in the playoffs is extremely overrated and has no bearing on a goalies performance. Being a lower seed and playing top teams is a legitimate reason for a less-than-stellar playoff resume, but both Richter and Vanbiesbrouck took their respective teams to the CF without home ice (1986, 1997)

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02-12-2012, 11:40 AM
  #305
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The Rangers were not favorites against the Devs in 97 and look what Richter did in that series? He was a one man show!!!!!!

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02-12-2012, 12:01 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
The Rangers were not favorites against the Devs in 97 and look what Richter did in that series? He was a one man show!!!!!!
I dont think the Devils were clear cut favorites...they just had an excellent regular season and steamrolled in Round One. The Rangers still felt they could beat them.

Yeah, they were the higher seed but there really wasnt a home ice difference.

But Richter was easily the best player in that entire series from either team.

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02-12-2012, 02:30 PM
  #307
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I think Lundqvist is the more talented goalie and the only thing Richter has on him is playoff success, though this is certainly an important factor as performing at the highest level is a defining factor when looking at careers.. As many people have mentioned, it's hard to fault Lundqvist for this as Richter had stronger teams in front of him.

However, Richter also had an ability to up his game when needed in clutch situations, which is an absolutely critical skill for a goalie.

If I am chosing a goalie to build a team around then I chose Lundqvist. If I am chosing a goalie for a 7-game SC final then it is very close, and I see no problem going with Richter over Lundqvist.

I hope people commenting in this thread have seen Richter's play in the 96' world cup. He was absolutely brilliant in the most high pressure of situations. Some people seem to be giving Lundqvist the edge in international play, which I think is unfair as Richter was the best player in the 3-game series against Canada in a tourney, which is viewed as one of the best played and most competitive international tourneys in quite a while. His play was epic.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 02-12-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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02-12-2012, 02:40 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
it's hard to fault Lundqvist for this as Richter had stronger teams in front of him.
Leetch, Zubov, Mess , Gravy, Anderson, Lowe, Beukeboom..etc..at least 5 HOF's

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02-12-2012, 02:57 PM
  #309
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ricky never had a d this committed to blocking shots as hank does, both are phenomenal one on one, hard choice, but a nice one to have to choose from,

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02-12-2012, 02:59 PM
  #310
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as someone who grew up watching and trying to emulate richter i can't find it in myself to pick against him. there's nobody around right now that plays at a level that hasek or roy did so you can't compare the competition for richter and lundqvist. the game is SO different right now than it was back when richter came into the league, it's hard to make a real comparison. i think if you take lundqvist and throw him into the 90s with the pads that richter was wearing, i'd take richter in a heart beat.

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02-12-2012, 03:08 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by petejudge View Post
as someone who grew up watching and trying to emulate richter i can't find it in myself to pick against him. there's nobody around right now that plays at a level that hasek or roy did so you can't compare the competition for richter and lundqvist. the game is SO different right now than it was back when richter came into the league, it's hard to make a real comparison. i think if you take lundqvist and throw him into the 90s with the pads that richter was wearing, i'd take richter in a heart beat.
the pads werent that different between Richter and Lundqvist. Are they bigger today? Yes. But not a huge difference

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02-12-2012, 03:21 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
the pads werent that different between Richter and Lundqvist. Are they bigger today? Yes. But not a huge difference
no but the game itself was. pre and post lockout has a huge difference, the pads were definitely smaller then, and the teams were way different. comparing the two is nearly impossible, but if i had to throw richter or lundqvist into game 7 of the stanley cup finals in 1994 with the same equipment and teammates i'd probably pick richter.

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02-12-2012, 03:25 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by petejudge View Post
no but the game itself was. pre and post lockout has a huge difference, the pads were definitely smaller then, and the teams were way different. comparing the two is nearly impossible, but if i had to throw richter or lundqvist into game 7 of the stanley cup finals in 1994 with the same equipment and teammates i'd probably pick richter.
Definitely impossible to compare between than and now. Obviously Lundqvist wouldnt be putting up the numbers his is now. Only one even coming close was Hasek and really that just tells you how amazing that guy was. I think this is Lundqvist's year to prove he should be considered the better goalie.

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02-12-2012, 04:30 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Leetch, Zubov, Mess , Gravy, Anderson, Lowe, Beukeboom..etc..at least 5 HOF's
Lowe and Anderson were well past the production that made them HOF or HOF caliber by the time 1994 rolled around. Anderson is a HOF'er because of Edmonton. End of story.

Zubov was essentially a rookie. Not a single person in 1994, or 1995 when Zubov showed up to the 2nd camp in a row out of shape, that he was destined for the HOF.

Graves is nowhere near a HOF. Not even close.

Beukeboom a HOFer? Maybe as a visitor with his kids.

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02-12-2012, 04:39 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
the pads werent that different between Richter and Lundqvist. Are they bigger today? Yes. But not a huge difference
The pads were an inch wider in Richter's day so "bigger" in some ways smaller in others. All the gear is smaller post lock-out.

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02-12-2012, 05:05 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
Definitely impossible to compare between than and now. Obviously Lundqvist wouldnt be putting up the numbers his is now. Only one even coming close was Hasek and really that just tells you how amazing that guy was. I think this is Lundqvist's year to prove he should be considered the better goalie.
And why is that? Yes, pads were smaller. But before the lockout clutching, grabbing, holding, sticks in the midsection and the like were hardly ever called. The new rules have opened up the game and made it harder for goalies, not easier.

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02-12-2012, 05:35 PM
  #317
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And why is that? Yes, pads were smaller. But before the lockout clutching, grabbing, holding, sticks in the midsection and the like were hardly ever called. The new rules have opened up the game and made it harder for goalies, not easier.
Teams play a more defensive game now than they did back in the early to mid 90's. Just look at the goal scoring numbers than compared to now. There's were more teams in one season scoring 300 goals back than there are are in the last 7 seasons combined. Obviously the goaltending isn't hat much better now. The game was alot more wide open back than. Look how many players were scoring 50+ goals and 100+ points.

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02-12-2012, 05:39 PM
  #318
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And why is that? Yes, pads were smaller. But before the lockout clutching, grabbing, holding, sticks in the midsection and the like were hardly ever called. The new rules have opened up the game and made it harder for goalies, not easier.
The clutching and grabbing and defensive trap systems did not start until after the 1994 season. The devils really got it going in 95 and everyone started to try and do it. The lockout then put an end to the clutching and grabbing.


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02-12-2012, 06:30 PM
  #319
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Lowe and Anderson were well past the production that made them HOF or HOF caliber by the time 1994 rolled around. Anderson is a HOF'er because of Edmonton. End of story.

Zubov was essentially a rookie. Not a single person in 1994, or 1995 when Zubov showed up to the 2nd camp in a row out of shape, that he was destined for the HOF.

Graves is nowhere near a HOF. Not even close.

Beukeboom a HOFer? Maybe as a visitor with his kids.
What point are you trying to make? You sound like a fool when even trying to infer that this year's team is anywhere near as talented as the 94 team.

Did you watch the game today? Did you hear the analysts talking about how Lundqvist should be a Hart trophy finalist?

Remember how they were saying that about Richter in 94??? Yea, me neither.

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02-12-2012, 09:10 PM
  #320
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I'm 23 years old so I only saw Richter during his last few seasons, and he was awful much like the team. I was a little kid so I really couldn't tell if it was the defense or the goalie, but I do know he let in a lot of goals.

That being said while I can't imagine Richter having more talent than Hank, this town reveres champions, and until Hank brings home the cup he will not be on Richters level.

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02-12-2012, 09:11 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Zubov was essentially a rookie. Not a single person in 1994, or 1995 when Zubov showed up to the 2nd camp in a row out of shape, that he was destined for the HOF.
He wasn't a rookie.

He put up a measly 89 points.

He scored 19 points in 22 games in the playoffs.

That made him the team's 2nd best offensive defenseman.

MDZ is the great current offensive defenseman. Want to compare their talents?

Arguing the relative talents of the 94 team and this one is silly.

This year's team is the equal defensively. Offensively, no contest.

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02-12-2012, 09:28 PM
  #322
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I love Hank, but until he wins a cup there is no way I'd put him above Richter.
I agree 100%

Richter brought us a Cup.

I think Lundqvist is a phenomenal goalie and a contender for the Vezina year after year. But until he has his name on the Cup as a NYR, I will choose Richter

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02-12-2012, 09:47 PM
  #323
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Hank makes ridiculous saves day in and day out. We are truly spoiled by him. Richter was great, and obviously we are endeared to him because of the Cup. But the championship aside I just don't remember Mike playing at the level Hank is at right now. Look at their stats...Hank's worst season would Mike's best.

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02-13-2012, 06:53 AM
  #324
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Hank makes ridiculous saves day in and day out. We are truly spoiled by him. Richter was great, and obviously we are endeared to him because of the Cup. But the championship aside I just don't remember Mike playing at the level Hank is at right now. Look at their stats...Hank's worst season would Mike's best.
I think you need to watch the 94 playoffs final 2 rounds and 07 playoffs again to start!

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02-13-2012, 08:29 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What point are you trying to make? You sound like a fool when even trying to infer that this year's team is anywhere near as talented as the 94 team.

Did you watch the game today? Did you hear the analysts talking about how Lundqvist should be a Hart trophy finalist?

Remember how they were saying that about Richter in 94??? Yea, me neither.
Record-wise, this team is on pace to eclipse the 1994 team. You're comparing player-to-player. I'm not comparing rosters. You're obsessed with the rosters. The bottom line is that the 2012 Rangers are just as dominant as the 1994 Rangers. Who cares how many HOF'ers are on the team?

Wins and losses are all that matter.

On FEB 13, 1994, the Rangers were 35-15-4. (.648). They were +54 in goals. They were tied for 6th in goals for (197) and 1st in goals against (143)

Keep in mind that in 1994, there were 5 expansion teams in the league. No re-locations. Straight-up expansion rosters. There was little to no parity in the league from around 1991 to 1994.

On FEB 13, 2012, the Rangers are 36-13-5. (.666). They're +43 in goals. They're 10th in goals for (150) and 2nd in goals against (106)


Another clown trying to diminish Richter's value to the 1994 team. Well, if Richter was so unimportant and roasd the coattails of a super roster, tell me about Glenn Healy.

You know, Glenn Healy? The guy who three months prior to joining the Rangers beat the President' Trophy winner and 2-time defending Cup champs in the playoffs.

I guess the 1994 rangers had an axe to grind with Healy, because he was 10-12-2 with a .878 SVPCT and 3.03 GAA.

Mike Richter? I guess the team loved him...42-12-6 with a 2.57 GAA and .910 SVPCT


2012 Rangers????


Marty Biron is 10-2-1 (.769) with a 2.02 GAA and a .919 SVPCT with 2 shutouts

Henrik is 26-11-4 (.634) with a 1.81 GAA and .939 SVPCt and 6 shutouts.

Last season, Biron had a lower GAA (2.13 to 2.38) than Henrik and the exact SVPCT (.923)

Granted, you could ascertain that the added workload would hurt Biron's numbers. But what is an absolute fact is that even with their backup goalie, the Rangers are winning well above the league average.

Sounds like the 2012 Rangers are pretty dominant to me. Just because they haven't won the Cup yet, or dont have guys in the roster who already punched their ticket to Toronto, doesn't take away from how they are the class of the conference right now.

Right now, Henrik is deserving of the Vezina. He should also be a Hart finalist. But a big part of that is because the league is bereft of true superstars. The fact that Phil Kessel's name is being thrown around for Hart tells you how watered down the talent is.

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