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Game #54: Blues vs Avalanche

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Old
02-12-2012, 03:08 AM
  #251
Robb_K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
It was really, really, really important to Bernie Federko, you could tell with the open mic stream. During the break when most people were seeing commercials, he was insistently playing it back and forth in super slo mo like 20x to make sure. They even got the spotlight circle going on it. Hockey guys have extra trained eyes to tell when something tips, and you could see from all the slo mos that it absolutely, positively, did not hit Colaiacovo's stick, much less come even within 4 feet of his elbow. Seriously. It hit Landeskog (as was apparently clear enough to Avs fans on their own feed in the GDT).

When Bernie did the interview, he went out of his way to assure Berglund that they had looked at it multiple times and were certain it was his goal – they were right, it was. You coud tell that while Berglund was saying all the right things, it did matter to him, and Bernie knew it too.

Which is why Cola saying it hit his elbow in that situation is almost offensive. Dude, that's your teammate. Who just had a feature article in the hometown newspaper that day about how he gets down on himself w/o scoring. It's just selfish. Carlo's a guy out there always calling for the puck, tapping the ice, waving his stick whether he's open or not. Really just done with him.
This is true. The puck clearly did NOT hit Coliacovo. The goal scorer should be changed.

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Old
02-12-2012, 03:35 AM
  #252
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That's what I get for buying a new fish tank tonight...Watched the replay on NHL Network. Was it as exciting as the highlights made it seem?

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:36 AM
  #253
rumrokh
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I didn't think it hit Colaiacovo when I originally saw it, but I didn't watch the replay a bunch. Funny, I had the game recorded in high def and deleted it before I knew this was an issue.

I don't know what I think now, but the "four feet" distance from Colaiacovo is an exaggeration. I am by no means posting this image to prove that, just throwing it out there in case it's interesting to anybody. Assuming Colaiacovo was serious and not misunderstood, his reputation is on the line, so I thought it would be worth examining. It's certainly not conclusive, because the camera moves and I had to compensate for that; plus, it's just a low-res online replay. But I also think I didn't misrepresent the replay (too much ).



I hope what I'm showing is clear. The purple line that appears is the trajectory of the shot. The red marks that appear are showing the puck.
There is a frame without the red mark. I believe the puck is visible, just beneath Colaiacovo's stick (it is already past the plane of his body and stick at this point). But it's not clear, and that could be his stick.

These are also not the only frames. I left out a bunch that were too blurry to be helpful, and I'm not a master at making gifs. So the puck looks like it travels a shorter distance between frame two and three than it does between one and two, but it doesn't. I just hacked the gif like an ape. If I were doing it again, I'd change this, but I'm not doing it again. Take this for whatever you think it's worth.

What's interesting to me is that the length of the puck in the first three frames is about the same, as the puck is going about the same speed in all of them. It appears to shorten considerably after it passes Colaiacovo and before it reaches Landeskog (including the "mysterious" frame). There may also be a slight change in direction, as indicated by the deviation from the purple line, but I won't claim that, as I couldn't pull off a perfect realignment of the frames, and I think the puck fluttered a bit off Berglund's stick in the first place.
Both the shortening and the possible change in direction could be due to camera movement or just perspective or something else, but it could also be due to hitting Colaiacovo and slowing down.

The only motivation I can begin to guess about for dishonesty on Colaiacovo's part is some negotiation leverage because his contract is up. However, several of the youngsters have also noted Colaiacovo as a significant part of helping them adjust and become better professionals. I have never known of even the most selfish player to say a puck hit him if it did not (could happen, just not that I've known of in the NHL).
Backes is the kind of guy who would have said, "I don't know," even if it did hit him, but that's also why he's the captain. I would love to hear a response like that from Colaiacovo, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily being selfish - it could simply be honesty.

I really don't know, and I'm not saying that as a cop-out. Until I see other evidence, there's nothing else I can add to this discussion. However, I will say that when I helped run a fantasy hockey league for family and friends years ago, we did change a couple goals and assists we knew were scored incorrectly. There was exclusive player ownership in this league; and if I were still doing it, I'd give a goal to both Berglund and Colaiacovo for this play, even if they were owned by the same person.


Last edited by rumrokh: 02-12-2012 at 06:05 AM. Reason: grammar and clarity
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Old
02-12-2012, 05:48 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I didn't think it hit Colaiacovo when I originally saw it, but I didn't watch the replay a bunch. Funny, I had the game recorded in high def and deleted it before I knew this was an issue.

I don't know what I think now, but the "four feet" distance from Colaiacovo is an exaggeration. I am by no means posting this image to prove that, just throwing it out there in case it's interesting to anybody. Assuming Colaiacovo was serious and not misunderstood, his reputation is on the line, so I thought it would be worth examining. It's certainly not conclusive, because the camera moves and I had to compensate for that; plus, it's just a low-res online replay. But I also think I didn't misrepresent the replay (too much ).



I hope what I'm showing is clear. The purple line that appears is the trajectory of the shot. The red marks that appear are showing the puck.
There is a frame without the red mark. I believe the puck is visible, just beneath Colaiacovo's stick (it is already past the plane of his body and stick at this point). But it's not clear, and that could be his stick.

These are also not the only frames. I left out a bunch that were too blurry to be helpful, and I'm not a master at making gifs. So the puck looks like it travels a shorter distance between frame two and three than it does between three and four, but it doesn't. I just hacked the gif like an ape. If I were doing it again, I'd change this, but I'm not doing it again. Take this for whatever you think it's worth.

What's interesting to me is that the length of the puck in the first three frames is about the same, as the puck is going about the same speed in all of them. It appears to shorten considerably after it passes Colaiacovo and before it reaches Landeskog (including the "mysterious" frame). There may also a slight change in direction, as indicated by the deviation from the purple line, but I won't claim that, as I couldn't pull off a perfect realignment of the frames, and I think the puck fluttered a bit off Berglund's stick in the first place.
Both the shortening and the possible change in direction could be due to camera movement or just perspective or something else, but it could also be due to hitting Colaiacovo and slowing down.

The only motivation I can begin to guess about for dishonesty on Colaiacovo's part is some negotiation leverage because his contract is up. However, several of the youngsters have also noted Colaiacovo as a significant part of helping them adjust and become better professionals. I have never known of even the most selfish player to say a puck hit him if it did not (could happen, just not that I've known of in the NHL).
Backes is the kind of guy who would have said, "I don't know," even if it did hit him, but that's also why he's the captain. I would love to hear a response like that from Colaiacovo, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily being selfish - it could simply be honesty.

I really don't know, and I'm not saying that as a cop-out. Until I see other evidence, there's nothing else I can add to this discussion. However, I will say that when I helped run a fantasy hockey league for family and friends years ago, we did change a couple goals and assists we knew were scored incorrectly. There was exclusive player ownership in this league; and if I were still doing it, I'd give a goal to both Berglund and Colaiacovo for this play, even if they were owned by the same person.
now from this i guess its a lot more conclusive in Colaiacovo's goal.

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Old
02-12-2012, 07:58 AM
  #255
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God I could never be an Avs fan with all the whining that goes on over in their GDT's. They all sound like a bunch of 15 year olds. Anyways I went to this game last night, loved Berglund showing some heart out there for once, he worked his ass off. Perron has been on fire lately and actually passed Stewart in points and is tied up with Bergy. Now that Mcdonald will be back tonigt maybe he can get Stewy and Bergy scoring even more.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:21 AM
  #256
inglouriousbackes
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i used gush over the avs as a kid dreaming of forsberg, sakic, and roy being in blues uniforms. I was always jealous of them avs having stanley cups and the blues somehow floundering in the playoffs to the dallas stars, red wings, or even those god damn sharks.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:40 PM
  #257
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Took my best friend to the game yesterday... his first game. Was good to see us win it!

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:48 PM
  #258
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I have now read that EJ said the shot was a double deflection, first off Colaiacovo, and then off EJ. So, the "controversy" is put to rest (thank goodness). I couldn't imagine a teammate trying to "steal" a statistical goal from a fellow teammate.

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Old
02-12-2012, 12:58 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
I have now read that EJ said the shot was a double deflection, first off Colaiacovo, and then off EJ. So, the "controversy" is put to rest (thank goodness). I couldn't imagine a teammate trying to "steal" a statistical goal from a fellow teammate.
don't forget about Landy as well

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Old
02-12-2012, 03:10 PM
  #260
PocketNines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I didn't think it hit Colaiacovo when I originally saw it, but I didn't watch the replay a bunch. Funny, I had the game recorded in high def and deleted it before I knew this was an issue.

I don't know what I think now, but the "four feet" distance from Colaiacovo is an exaggeration. I am by no means posting this image to prove that, just throwing it out there in case it's interesting to anybody. Assuming Colaiacovo was serious and not misunderstood, his reputation is on the line, so I thought it would be worth examining. It's certainly not conclusive, because the camera moves and I had to compensate for that; plus, it's just a low-res online replay. But I also think I didn't misrepresent the replay (too much ).



I hope what I'm showing is clear. The purple line that appears is the trajectory of the shot. The red marks that appear are showing the puck.
There is a frame without the red mark. I believe the puck is visible, just beneath Colaiacovo's stick (it is already past the plane of his body and stick at this point). But it's not clear, and that could be his stick.

These are also not the only frames. I left out a bunch that were too blurry to be helpful, and I'm not a master at making gifs. So the puck looks like it travels a shorter distance between frame two and three than it does between one and two, but it doesn't. I just hacked the gif like an ape. If I were doing it again, I'd change this, but I'm not doing it again. Take this for whatever you think it's worth.

What's interesting to me is that the length of the puck in the first three frames is about the same, as the puck is going about the same speed in all of them. It appears to shorten considerably after it passes Colaiacovo and before it reaches Landeskog (including the "mysterious" frame). There may also be a slight change in direction, as indicated by the deviation from the purple line, but I won't claim that, as I couldn't pull off a perfect realignment of the frames, and I think the puck fluttered a bit off Berglund's stick in the first place.
Both the shortening and the possible change in direction could be due to camera movement or just perspective or something else, but it could also be due to hitting Colaiacovo and slowing down.

The only motivation I can begin to guess about for dishonesty on Colaiacovo's part is some negotiation leverage because his contract is up. However, several of the youngsters have also noted Colaiacovo as a significant part of helping them adjust and become better professionals. I have never known of even the most selfish player to say a puck hit him if it did not (could happen, just not that I've known of in the NHL).
Backes is the kind of guy who would have said, "I don't know," even if it did hit him, but that's also why he's the captain. I would love to hear a response like that from Colaiacovo, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily being selfish - it could simply be honesty.

I really don't know, and I'm not saying that as a cop-out. Until I see other evidence, there's nothing else I can add to this discussion. However, I will say that when I helped run a fantasy hockey league for family and friends years ago, we did change a couple goals and assists we knew were scored incorrectly. There was exclusive player ownership in this league; and if I were still doing it, I'd give a goal to both Berglund and Colaiacovo for this play, even if they were owned by the same person.
First of all, four feet from Cola's elbow is not an exaggeration. I stand by that, because it's true. Cola said it hit his elbow. Objectively, that's a lie.

Backes is the guy who claimed credit for Petro's goal (the third goal against Edmonton in the 4-3 game) when it didn't even come close to his stick – FAR more egregious than this case. Took a goal from Petro and an assist from Oshie. So I'm not sure how standup he is either. If you go back to that GDT spectr17 also gave it the JFK treatment.

As for the gif, I appreciate the effort but to me it still looks like no change in deflection. This is also not the camera angle (from behind the Blues' net looking down ice) where you can see it whistle past Cola's stick (again, nowhere NEAR the elbow). I'm convinced if you watch it from that other angle in super slo mo you can see it not change direction at all past Cola.

Sorry diehardbluesfan, but thanks for trolling.

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