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Old
02-12-2012, 10:47 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
i say **** it.
trade everyone
get suter, weber, visnovsky, orr, Potvin, Howe, and Roy.

Roll these lines :
Nobody - Giroux - Nobody
Nobody - Giroux - Nobody
Nobody - Giroux - Nobody
Nobody - Giroux - Nobody



Orr-Potvin
Visnovsky-Howe
Suter-Weber

Roy
Musciano
Finally! Someone talking some sense in here...

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:49 PM
  #27
TheKingPin
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I'd trade jvr for schenn. Wed prob get discount for our schenns contract.

Acquire Allen

Trade carles rights offseason

Sign suter in offseason

Sellout for a more d first system to stop the bleeding and cont bryz confidence build.


Prob lose 1st or2nd rnd but should look great next year with this o a new d and better goaltending.

Suter mez
Timo coburn
Allen schenn

Pretty solid

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:49 PM
  #28
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I'd slap a flux capacitor onto my crapbox Camry, force it up to 88mph, and retrieve Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux. Maybe Borque, Howe and McCrimmon too.

Team: solved.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:49 PM
  #29
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I understand capitalizing on Hartnell's value while its the highest it will probably ever be, but he loves it here and I doubt he will be moved. He is the guy that holds this team together, keeps them lose, and displays leadership on the ice by how he defends his teammates and sticks up for them.

Really the only guy on this roster that we can potentially deal is Carle, and maybe mez.

All the bad contracts have NMC and everyone else is a young talented player.

Chalk this year up to another season of not winning the cup, a growing experience and take a run at suter in the offseason. That is all we can hope for at this point.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:49 PM
  #30
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I knew there'd be at least one "Trade Giroux" in the forums tonight.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:50 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Out:
Carle
2 3rd round picks

In:
Gill
Visnovsky
O'Brien, Grossman or Hannan
Wait...

You think you can get Visnovsky for a 3rd round pick? Or for Carle? Because there is no way in hell you are getting a 50+ point d-man who is actually semi-reliable on defense, and who still has years on his contract, for a UFA who will be asking 5+ million per, or for a 3rd pick.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:51 PM
  #32
Swiper the Fox
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how bout get someone on the coaching staff to show them how to actually play defense?
and lately, they really need to work on shorthanded situations
stop the mentality they need to score when shorthanded.
shorthanded goals will come with proper defensive coverage ( and a lucky bounce )


oh, and while they are at it, could somone tell coburn he's a big boy and big boys can dish out a hit or 3 in a game
he may be one of the best we've got, but you sure don't see him out there

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:56 PM
  #33
Damaged Goods
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Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
JVR-Talbot-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Rinaldo

Timonen-Coburn
Visnovsky-O'Brien
Meszaros-Gill
Gus/Lilja

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

I'd be excited to see that team in the playoffs.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiper the Fox View Post
how bout get someone on the coaching staff to show them how to actually play defense?
and lately, they really need to work on shorthanded situations
stop the mentality they need to score when shorthanded.
shorthanded goals will come with proper defensive coverage ( and a lucky bounce )


oh, and while they are at it, could somone tell coburn he's a big boy and big boys can dish out a hit or 3 in a game
he may be one of the best we've got, but you sure don't see him out there
This.
I forgot that I wanted to mention it... it's getting awfully old, really quick, seeing Giroux and Talbot go for a shorthanded goal any opportunity they can get, with the d-men even jumping up. Often, they end up getting it stripped, with two forwards stuck deep, and then chasing the play back into their own zone. I'd say 75 % of the past 10 PP goals against have come off the opponent's rush, rather than a set play. Incredible that Laviolette still lets them do that kind of crap.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:05 PM
  #35
Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
Wait...

You think you can get Visnovsky for a 3rd round pick? Or for Carle? Because there is no way in hell you are getting a 50+ point d-man who is actually semi-reliable on defense, and who still has years on his contract, for a UFA who will be asking 5+ million per, or for a 3rd pick.

I think Carle could return a 2nd round pick and possibly a conditional pick, which perhaps along with Bourdon I figure is enough to get Visnovsky (it may not even take that much). The market for Visnovsky doesn't appear to be that robust at the deadline. He has a $6.5 M cap hit this year and next. I think you are overrating what it costs to get veteran players at the deadline.

Look back at post #55 from the deadline thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I think you are vastly overrating what these rentals are worth on the trade market.

2011:
Dennis Wideman was traded for a 3rd round pick
Bryan McCabe was traded for a 3rd round pick
Brent Sopel was traded for a 4th round pick
Eric Brewer was traded for a 3rd round pick
Ian White was traded for a 2nd round pick
Paul Mara was traded for a 5th round pick
Bryan Allen was traded for Sergei Samsonov

2010:
Joe Corvo was traded for a 2nd round pick
Andrew Alberts was traded for a 3rd round pick
Milan Jurcina was traded for a conditional pick (7th rounder)
Aaron Ward was traded for a 4th round pick
Dennis Seidenberg was traded for a 2nd round pick
Martin Skoula was traded for a 5th round pick
Derek Morris was traded for a conditional pick (3rd rounder because he re-signed)
Steven Kampfer was traded for a 4th round pick

2009:
Kent Huskins and Travis Moen were traded for a 4th round pick
James Wisniewski was traded for Samuel Pahlsson and a conditional pick (condition not met)
Steve Eminger was traded for a 3rd round pick
Jordan Leopold was traded for a 2nd round pick

I excluded the non-roster throw-in players that were used to balance contracts or fill AHL rosters.

The point is, a rental/deadline defenseman of this ilk usually goes for a 2nd, 3rd OR 4th round pick, not a 2nd AND a 3rd round pick.

Getting Grossman and Hannan/Allen probably won't cost much more than a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick and a Ben Holmstrom type total. It will not cost multiple 2nds and multiple 3rds. You are basically overestimating the price x2.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I think Carle could return a 2nd round pick and possibly a conditional pick, which perhaps along with Bourdon I figure is enough to get Visnovsky (it may not even take that much). The market for Visnovsky doesn't appear to be that robust at the deadline. He has a $6.5 M cap hit this year and next. I think you are overrating what it costs to get veteran players at the deadline.

Look back at post #55 from the deadline thread.
I'm sorry, but none of those d-men that are even close to Visnovsky's calibre. I'm afraid you are underrating the guy, because he's a legit #2, if not #1 on most teams.
i.e look at Ian White. He's perhaps the closest in value to Visnovsky of all those d-men, yet he's still not close to Visnovsky, and he fetched a 2nd rounder..

McCabe, Corvo, Alberts... all garbage.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
I'm sorry, but none of those d-men that are even close to Visnovsky's calibre. I'm afraid you are underrating the guy, because he's a legit #2, if not #1 on most teams.
He also didn't list MAB as going "out". The way he listed it made it appear that Visnovsky was gotten for either Carle or a 3rd.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:11 PM
  #38
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See what it takes to get Rutuu from Carolina and Schenn and/or Johnson (LA). Work from there. If those prices are too high I look elsewhere. Bottom line, get a veteran winger and a defender to replace MAB and/or Gus.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStock View Post
I'm sorry, but none of those d-men that are even close to Visnovsky's calibre. I'm afraid you are underrating the guy, because he's a legit #2, if not #1 on most teams.
i.e look at Ian White. He's perhaps the closest in value to Visnovsky of all those d-men, yet he's still not close to Visnovsky, and he fetched a 2nd rounder..

McCabe, Corvo, Alberts... all garbage.

He's 35 with an extensive injury history has potentially difficult cap hit ($6.5 M) this year and next. In 2010 he was traded for Ryan Whitney. I don't see how his trade value is substantially higher than Carle's.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:15 PM
  #40
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Honestly? If we are still looking like this near the deadline, I think what Homer will do is make some even trades. Maybe trade some guys out for other guys in the same position.

That being said, if we struggle more, I think some players that could get traded are

Jagr- a playoff team that needs a winger would trade a 1st or a late 1syt round prospect drafted back in 2009/2010.

Carle- I think could fetch a first or a good/decent prospect and a 2nd.

JVR- Yea, I know some people here are in love with him/ think he is a superstar powerforward in the future, but if a team offers a equal defensiveman around the same age for him (and has JVR's potenial) I'd think long and hard to make it.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:18 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
He's 35 with an extensive injury history has potentially difficult cap hit ($6.5 M) this year and next. In 2010 he was traded for Ryan Whitney. I don't see how his trade value is substantially higher than Carle's.
His cap hit is 5.6 not 6.5.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:24 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Jagr- a playoff team that needs a winger would trade a 1st or a late 1syt round prospect drafted back in 2009/2010.
Don't see it happening unless we lose like every game between now and the deadline.

Quote:
Carle- I think could fetch a first or a good/decent prospect and a 2nd.
Only if we are getting a different defender from somewhere else. I know everyone hates him, but he's better than most people give him credit for. I wouldn't mind dealing him because I don't think they will re-sign him or shouldn't for what he's likely going to be asking, but only if we have a replacement for him. This team needs to ADD a defenseman to contend for the Cup, not get rid of one. If you are throwing in the towel then definitely deal him because he is not coming back. But as I've said, I'm not ready to throw in the towel.

Quote:
JVR- Yea, I know some people here are in love with him/ think he is a superstar powerforward in the future, but if a team offers a equal defensiveman around the same age for him (and has JVR's potenial) I'd think long and hard to make it.
This I agree with, but if he's not healthy it can't happen. I am all for the Schenn for JvR especially if they get Schenn+.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:25 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
He also didn't list MAB as going "out". The way he listed it made it appear that Visnovsky was gotten for either Carle or a 3rd.
It's basically the same idea I was talking about before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Out: Carle, Bourdon, two 3rd round picks
In: Visnovsky/Zidlicky, Grossman, Gill/Allen
I forgot to mention Bourdon this time, but the assumption is that he would be replaced by an incoming acquisition. He has marginal value anyway.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:28 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
His cap hit is 5.6 not 6.5.
Oh, thanks. I still don't think he will fetch much more than Carle. If it takes an extra 4th round pick or an MAB, alright, but I'm not going to quibble over it.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:29 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Don't see it happening unless we lose like every game between now and the deadline.



Only if we are getting a different defender from somewhere else. I know everyone hates him, but he's better than most people give him credit for. I wouldn't mind dealing him because I don't think they will re-sign him or shouldn't for what he's likely going to be asking, but only if we have a replacement for him. This team needs to ADD a defenseman to contend for the Cup, not get rid of one. If you are throwing in the towel then definitely deal him because he is not coming back. But as I've said, I'm not ready to throw in the towel.



This I agree with, but if he's not healthy it can't happen. I am all for the Schenn for JvR especially if they get Schenn+.
The idea behind those three is if we continue to go below .500 and start to drop rankings to a point where we are out of playoffs. If we are 9th ish, yea I can see those three staying. That being said, if we are lower, I dont think Jagr has that much attachment to the team to miss the playoffs. Carle is looking more like he isnt going to resign (not just me hoping, but I kinda get that feeling reading some of the quotes). He is also regressing this season tremendously and one cant just blame his partners. Watching him + advanced stats show a severe decrease in his defensive play. I think you should deal him to atleast get something for him. I do agree that there arent many other defenders on the market, but with 3 first round picks, we can hopefully package one or two of them for a better defender. During the summer, I think its possible.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:30 PM
  #46
Top Cheese Danish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Jagr- a playoff team that needs a winger would trade a 1st or a late 1syt round prospect drafted back in 2009/2010.
This will absolutely never happen. Jagr will find it disrespectful, quit the team and be on the next plane to the Czech Republic within minutes.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:32 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
Giroux+Carle+Gus(+1st) for Weber+Ellis+random pick(7th)
Ummmmmmmmm.......

Well THAT certainly didn't help your case.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:32 PM
  #48
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This will absolutely never happen. Jagr will find it disrespectful, quit the team and be on the next plane to the Czech Republic within minutes.
Disrespectful? If anything, he would see the chance to go to a playoff team and maybe win a cup in his maybe last year playing hockey.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:38 PM
  #49
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if it were me i gather all the players into a meeting, let every player understand that what happens next can/will happen to anyone else who continues to not play their position with 100% heart/soul every shift/game from here on out..


then tell Carle in front of everyone that he is waived, and to pack his ****...

walk out and let the team fester/think on about the future...


the time for hand holding this team' weak ass effort is OVER !!!


Carle is so worthless i dont even persue a trade' instead i use him as an example...

thats about his best use right now



oh and then pick up that phone and start shopping for some replacement D.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:40 PM
  #50
Top Cheese Danish
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Disrespectful? If anything, he would see the chance to go to a playoff team and maybe win a cup in his maybe last year playing hockey.
I disagree. I think he would find it insulting. If he didn't already have two cups, maybe, but he's won just about every award there is to win already so that wouldn't be a viable enough excuse to trade him.

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