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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-12-2012, 08:04 PM
  #676
BraveCanadian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Boo! Just today I realized that Lehtinen would be a very nice pick at this point. Well ... nice pick!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Thought about taking Lehtinen as opposed to Walker, however in what I was able to research I liked what I thought was Walker's ability to play with Keon a little better as more of a playmaker. Good pick though with Lehtinen.
He wasn't my original plan but he was too good to pass up at this point.

Also his speed does fits with my team, as well as one of his other attributes, and he does have some decent offense too.

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02-12-2012, 08:14 PM
  #677
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With pick 290, the Swamp Devils pick a player whose value should have skyrocketed since BM67 uncovered more or less complete All Star voting records for the 1930s and 1940s:

Jack Crawford, D

IMO, Crawford could easily be a defensive-minded #3 in this, so I'm thrilled to have him as a #4.

These are Crawford's finishes in All Star voting:
1939: 8th (also finished 4th in Calder voting)
1940: no placement
1941: 8th
1942: 5th (one alternate vote from a tie for 3rd)
1943: 3rd (2nd Team All Star)
1944: 6th
1945: 6th
1946: 1st (1st Team All Star, more 1st place and total votes than Ken Reardon. IMO, this is the equivalent of a Norris Trophy)
1947: 5th
1948: 7th

Overall All Star record: 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th*, 6th*, 7th, 8th, 8th
*War Year

Even after you take into account the fact that it was a weak era, that's still an outstanding record for a defenseman available right now.

Overpass found during the defenseman project that the players did a poll and chose Crawford a 2nd Team AS in 1941-42.
  • Captain of the Boston Bruins from 1946-50.
  • Style: Big "husky" defensive defenseman who generally played a clean game without many PIMs, but who certainly knew how to hit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by One on one with Fern Flaman
Although just 20 years of age, the physical Flaman was able to study at the feet of legendary hitters like XXX and Jack Crawford, both teammates with the Bruins and established himself as a strong NHL defenceman.
  • Bonus point: Crawford is a right handed shot, which makes it easier for him to clear the puck from the right side on the PK

Fun Fact: Crawford is widely credited with being the first hockey player to regularly wear a helmet. He didn't do it for protection - he did it because he had suffered a disease as a teenager that made him lose his hair and he wanted to cover his bald head.



Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-12-2012 at 08:25 PM.
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Old
02-12-2012, 08:19 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Was just about to PM you about possibly acquiring that pick TDMM haha.
Probably should have done it before I was on the clock if you actually wanted it. Doesn't really matter since I would have made it conditional on Crawford not being available to me.

I have Reds' pick. He selects the clone of his previous pick,

Daniel Sedin, LW

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02-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Probably should have done it before I was on the clock if you actually wanted it. Doesn't really matter since I would have made it conditional on Crawford not being available to me.

I have Reds' pick. He selects the clone of his previous pick,

Daniel Sedin, LW
Oh, nicely done by him getting both.

I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole but if you like em you gotta go for both.

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Old
02-12-2012, 08:24 PM
  #680
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And the Sedin's and Kerr are reunited, best linemates for him in the ATD I think, as he works tremendously in a cycle game.

Also, BC, your second line features two prominent goal-scorers, is there going to be enough puck to go around?

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02-12-2012, 08:27 PM
  #681
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Also, BC, your second line features two prominent goal-scorers, is there going to be enough puck to go around?
Yup.

Neither one is one-dimensional.

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02-12-2012, 08:28 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
And the Sedin's and Kerr are reunited, best linemates for him in the ATD I think, as he works tremendously in a cycle game.

Also, BC, your second line features two prominent goal-scorers, is there going to be enough puck to go around?
Sedin-Sedin-Kerr is very good in the offensive zone, but quite a defensive liability IMO, mostly because of Kerr.

Monsienko is more of a balanced scorer than a pure goal scorer. I think he's a decent linemate for Barry, but you definitely want someone capable of passing on the left side.

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02-12-2012, 08:30 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Probably should have done it before I was on the clock if you actually wanted it. Doesn't really matter since I would have made it conditional on Crawford not being available to me.

I have Reds' pick. He selects the clone of his previous pick,

Daniel Sedin, LW
Yeah it was going to be more of a: "Hey, if you really don't want this pick, I'll take it off of your hands," kind of offer.

Not too big a deal anyway, you got the guy you wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Kerr is very good in the offensive zone, but quite a defensive liability IMO, mostly because of Kerr.

Monsienko is more of a balanced scorer than a pure goal scorer. I think he's a decent linemate for Barry, but you definitely want someone capable of passing on the left side.
Yeah your best bet for that Sedin-Kerr line is to give them a TON of offensive zone draws with Kerr taking the faceoffs and keeping them away if possible specifically from many defensive zone draws.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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02-12-2012, 08:30 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Kerr is very good in the offensive zone, but quite a defensive liability IMO, mostly because of Kerr.

Monsienko is more of a balanced scorer than a pure goal scorer. I think he's a decent linemate for Barry, but you definitely want someone capable of passing on the left side.
Agreed on both points. BC's second line has serious potential if he gets a strong passing winger in there.

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02-12-2012, 08:33 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah your best bet for that Sedin-Kerr line is to give them a TON of offensive zone draws with Kerr taking the faceoffs and keeping them away if possible specifically from many defensive zone draws.
And that's the problem with a Sedin-Sedin-Kerr line in the ATD. Do you really want them taking most of your offensive zone draws at this level?

It'll be interesting to see how Reds sets up his lines.

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02-12-2012, 08:33 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah your best bet for that Sedin-Kerr line is to give them a TON of offensive zone draws with Kerr taking the faceoffs and keeping them away if possible specifically from many defensive zone draws.
Strong skating offensively gifted #1 or #2 lines would also get Sedin-Sedin-Kerr in a lot of trouble 5 on 5.

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02-12-2012, 08:45 PM
  #687
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It's common knowledge Thornton has had the better career.
Which is why he goes approximately 100 picks earlier. They've been trending in opposite directions the past few seasons, but Thornton is deserving of going higher. It'd be interesting to see how both of them are perceived though if they can ever get a cup, seeing as how that's the biggest question mark with both.

My ideal Sedin linemate in the NHL and here btw would probably be Jarome Iginla.

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02-12-2012, 08:50 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Agreed on both points. BC's second line has serious potential if he gets a strong passing winger in there.
I don't even think the LW has to be that strong a passer, just someone capable of it. Not a shoot-first, shoot-second kind of player.

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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post

My ideal Sedin linemate in the NHL and here btw would probably be Jarome Iginla.
Agree with this. A Sedin-Sedin-Iginla line wouldn't be a plus defensively, but they wouldn't be a minus either.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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02-12-2012, 08:59 PM
  #689
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The ideal Sedin-Sedin linemate would probably be Gordie Howe in all honesty..

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02-12-2012, 09:34 PM
  #690
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His ice time for Team Canada at the World Cup in 96, Olympics in 98, and then Olympics again in 2002 tells the story. Not to mention how important he was for the Stanley Cup winner in 96 and 2001.
What was his icetime in those tournaments?

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Question, is this the league average playoff sv% with Fuhr removed from the average so that he isn't competing against himself?
This is the league average including Fuhr.

I agree that removing said goalie from the league average would be an even more accurate comparison. However:

- I didn't do it for Plante, Smith or Dryden
- Fuhr's cups were all in the 16-team playoff era, Dryden and Plante's werent, so the difference between Fuhr's league average and Fuhr's league average with Fuhr removed, would be less than Dryden and especially Plante.
- In other words, it would affect Smith approximately the same, Dryden more, and Plante much more.

In other words, if I went back and did this to be more accurate, Fuhr's "spread" might go up very slightly, but the others would go up more than his, so the point is moot.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I know perfectly well what they did. The problem with that analysis is not that the assists they tabulated from the scoring descriptions are wrong, but rather the fact that the scoring descriptions offered by the various papers of the time surely missed many assists. The SIHR reconstructed assists project leaves the tabulation of stats to the vagaries of what newspaper reporters felt like describing on any given day.

Think about that for a minute, jarek.
Oh, I'm certain that the newspaper reporters missed many assists. But does that really distinguish them from the people who officially recorded assists for about the next, oh, 20 years?

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I think at this point you're just ******** that you didn't draft him yourself. arrbez provided plenty there to support his argument.
why is everyone saying ******** lately?

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
When MB said that Adam Foote was the best defensive defenseman available "bar none," I thought it was a strange statement considering Kevin Lowe was still on the board. Even if you have a strong preference for modern players and guys who contributed to championships, Lowe fits the mold every bit as much as Foote.
absolutely.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Assist crown - an invention of the hfboards community

These are Henrik's top 10 points finishes: 1st, 4th, 5th*

*Projected 11-12

These are Joe Thornton's top 10 points finishes: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
With pick 290, the Swamp Devils pick a player whose value should have skyrocketed since BM67 uncovered more or less complete All Star voting records for the 1930s and 1940s:

Jack Crawford, D

IMO, Crawford could easily be a defensive-minded #3 in this, so I'm thrilled to have him as a #4.

These are Crawford's finishes in All Star voting:
1939: 8th (also finished 4th in Calder voting)
1940: no placement
1941: 8th
1942: 5th (one alternate vote from a tie for 3rd)
1943: 3rd (2nd Team All Star)
1944: 6th
1945: 6th
1946: 1st (1st Team All Star, more 1st place and total votes than Ken Reardon. IMO, this is the equivalent of a Norris Trophy)
1947: 5th
1948: 7th

Overall All Star record: 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th*, 6th*, 7th, 8th, 8th
*War Year

Even after you take into account the fact that it was a weak era, that's still an outstanding record for a defenseman available right now.

Overpass found during the defenseman project that the players did a poll and chose Crawford a 2nd Team AS in 1941-42.
  • Captain of the Boston Bruins from 1946-50.
  • Style: Big "husky" defensive defenseman who generally played a clean game without many PIMs, but who certainly knew how to hit:
  • Bonus point: Crawford is a right handed shot, which makes it easier for him to clear the puck from the right side on the PK

Fun Fact: Crawford is widely credited with being the first hockey player to regularly wear a helmet. He didn't do it for protection - he did it because he had suffered a disease as a teenager that made him lose his hair and he wanted to cover his bald head.

the results of this draft are becoming more clear with each round that goes by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Oh, nicely done by him getting both.

I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole but if you like em you gotta go for both.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
The ideal Sedin-Sedin linemate would probably be Gordie Howe in all honesty..
OMG REALLY???

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:55 PM
  #691
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What was his icetime in those tournaments?
They are impossible to find, but he played a prominent shutdown role in each of them. Maybe I was wrong in saying he was the best available hands down - but I sure as hell wouldn't take Mike Ramsey or Kevin Lowe over him.

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02-12-2012, 10:04 PM
  #692
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Maybe a slight reach here but I didn't get as much research time as I'd hoped to today. I think he should fit in well.

The Mooseheads will go with Ken Hodge, RW.

Can someone please PM next.

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02-12-2012, 10:07 PM
  #693
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Brind'Amour's Position

It sounds like everyone agrees he was a center in Carolina so I won't worry about those years. But since I do have access to some materials that can help, I thought I would throw my two cents in, as to what positions Brind'Amour played during the 1990s.

(first of all, the all-rookie team names three forwards, not LW-C-RW, so that he was the LW on that team is not conclusive proof)

My sources are:

- The TOI sheet that I refer to for icetime numbers. It has shown to be quite accurate for most players.
- Hockey Scouting Reports, 1991-2000 (they tend to list the player's most recent position although if he constantly switches they may just start calling him C/LW permanently)
- The NHL official guide and record book (in my experience they change player's positions on a yearly basis, based on what they played the previous year)
- THN yearbooks

When I say 1994-95 I am referring to the 1994-95 season, the results of which would be reflected in the 1995-96 editions of the books.

my assumption is that any time a publication lists two positions, they are attempting to list first what they believe is his primary position.

Feel free to disagree with my conclusions. i did my best and I really have no opinion on this matter. I just want to help.

year TOI HSR NHL THN conclusion
1990 LW LW/C LW/C LW LW, some C
1991 LW C/LW C LW LW, more C
1992 C C C C C
1993 C C C C C
1994 LW C C C C
1995 C C C LW C
1996 LW C C C C
1997 C LW LW/C C/LW mix
1998 LW LW LW/C LW LW
1999 C C C C C

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
They are impossible to find, but he played a prominent shutdown role in each of them. Maybe I was wrong in saying he was the best available hands down - but I sure as hell wouldn't take Mike Ramsey or Kevin Lowe over him.
I would. I think there is more evidence in their favour, than his.

edit: here is something that is not in Lowe's favour.

Foote, in his "peak 11-season period" (1996-2006) averaged 23.6 minutes per game.
Ramsey (1982-1992) averaged 23.0
Lowe (1982-1992) surprisingly averaged just 20.7.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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02-12-2012, 10:10 PM
  #694
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I would. I think there is more evidence in their favour, than his.
On paper, perhaps. I don't draft statistics. But....to each there own. I'm not getting sucked into one of these 4 page arguements!

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02-12-2012, 10:14 PM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I would. I think there is more evidence in their favour, than his.

edit: here is something that is not in Lowe's favour.

Foote, in his "peak 11-season period" (1996-2006) averaged 23.6 minutes per game.
Ramsey (1982-1992) averaged 23.0
Lowe (1982-1992) surprisingly averaged just 20.7.
Can you break this down by situation? I know Foote regularly saw time on the Colorado PP and I'm almost certain Lowe never stepped foot on the ice during the Edmonton PP.

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02-12-2012, 10:14 PM
  #696
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I would. I think there is more evidence in their favour, than his.

edit: here is something that is not in Lowe's favour.

Foote, in his "peak 11-season period" (1996-2006) averaged 23.6 minutes per game.
Ramsey (1982-1992) averaged 23.0
Lowe (1982-1992) surprisingly averaged just 20.7.
Who were they playing behind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Can you break this down by situation? I know Foote regularly saw time on the Colorado PP and I'm almost certain Lowe never stepped foot on the ice during the Edmonton PP.
Exactly, one of the reasons I really have to question icetime. I mean it is something but hardly the end all be all.

Scott Stevens/Niedermayer is my favourite recent example.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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02-12-2012, 10:26 PM
  #697
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I would. I think there is more evidence in their favour, than his.

edit: here is something that is not in Lowe's favour.

Foote, in his "peak 11-season period" (1996-2006) averaged 23.6 minutes per game.
Ramsey (1982-1992) averaged 23.0
Lowe (1982-1992) surprisingly averaged just 20.7.
Kevin Lowe also had a wildly better supporting cast during the respective time periods, I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

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02-12-2012, 10:30 PM
  #698
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If I ever drafted Daniel Sedin, I would wait at least 4-5 rounds to draft Henrik. I really doubt anybody would draft Henrik after Daniel was already drafted.

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02-12-2012, 10:36 PM
  #699
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If I ever drafted Daniel Sedin, I would wait at least 4-5 rounds to draft Henrik. I really doubt anybody would draft Henrik after Daniel was already drafted.
Honestly I think it's over-blown how they "have" to be together. Henrik did just fine when Daniel was injured.

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02-12-2012, 10:37 PM
  #700
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If I ever drafted Daniel Sedin, I would wait at least 4-5 rounds to draft Henrik. I really doubt anybody would draft Henrik after Daniel was already drafted.
I'd draft Henrik two rounds before Daniel every time. I don't get your thinking...

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