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01-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #51
Jarick
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We don't get anything for walking away from arbitration. That's an offer sheet.

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01-23-2012, 03:06 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Huh? No one is going to offer a 1st round pick for a guy that has only played one healthy season in the past three season. So I'm confused. Do you mean monetary wise though? Like if he goes to arbitration and gets a 1st round compensation type of money?
The RFA compensation for the contract that Lats would inevitably be awarded were he to go through arbitration, or if a team were to make a serious offer sheet on him would be a 1st + 3rd round pick (assuming no major changes in compensation rates year over year). As is typically the case, the RFA compensation rates generally reflect the actual trade market value for a player. That is to say, his RFA rights are worth (in pure draft pick perspective) a 2013 1st + 2013 3rd, which is roughly equivalent to a 2012 1st (depending upon team and pick location). Any offer of less than that is less than his actual trade value.

Now, teams may be equally concerned about his injury history, however, a winger on the rise who put up 27 goals in 78 games will attract interest. If it were not for the injuries, he'd be just about in the range of 1st + 2nd + 3rd on offer sheet compensation.

Edit to clarify: my arbitration reference is that I believe were we to take him to arbitration, he would be awarded a certain salary. That salary (by definition, fair value) compared against the offer sheet compensation would be worth 1st + 3rd

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01-23-2012, 03:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Yeah, I think if I had to pick one player to get healthy forever and the other to call it a career and pack it it, I think I would want Lats healthy forever.
Who's talking about being healthy forever or packing it in?

People are suggesting moving one or the other, and I'd much rather have Lats.

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01-23-2012, 03:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Now, teams may be equally concerned about his injury history, however, a winger on the rise who put up 27 goals in 78 games will attract interest. If it were not for the injuries, he'd be just about in the range of 1st + 2nd + 3rd on offer sheet compensation.
I'm sorry but that's delusional to think someone is going to offer up three high picks for a guy that may or may not be done in the NHL.

Lats is a good, solid power forward but teams are going to shy away from offering anything substantial to get his services. Too much of a high risk, high reward type of player

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01-23-2012, 03:31 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I'm sorry but that's delusional to think someone is going to offer up three high picks for a guy that may or may not be done in the NHL.

Lats is a good, solid power forward but teams are going to shy away from offering anything substantial to get his services. Too much of a high risk, high reward type of player
First of all, a first + a third is one high pick and one mid round pick, a far cry from "three high picks."

Second of all, that's his base value. Things like injuries can cause his trade value to fluctuate, but that's quite literally his value. As mentioned, teams that are risk averse may not be willing to offer his full value, but that doesn't change what he's worth. By definition (and experience has borne this out to be accurate) if he is awarded $3.2MM or more in arbitration, he is worth a 1st + 3rd. He almost certainly would be awarded that much in arbitration. Whether or not there's currently a market for him is irrelevant to this point.

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01-23-2012, 09:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
There isn't really that much of a difference between 2nd and 3rd line minutes. It's the 4th line that get limited shifts/minutes, but very few teams roll just 2 lines.
Probably should have used linemates instead of minutes. After watching Latendresse the past two seasons, I don't feel his skills/motivation/whole package are maximized on the third line with the current group of players as well as those who will likely be on the roster next season.

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01-24-2012, 02:22 AM
  #57
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No reason we shouldn't re-sign Lats. He'll be coming off of injury-plagued years so his price will be way down. He helps the team immensely when he's healthy and he can play on basically any line. He can score but he can also play very physical. He's a versatile player to have and like Lundin, is essentially risk free if we just sign him to a 1 year deal at around $1.5 million or so. I'm guessing we'll still have a fair amount of cap space to do so. I expect Fletcher to sign a few guys this off-season but I don't see us going all the way up to or even near the cap ceiling. If he stays healthy and produces like we know he can then you sign him to a multi-year deal.

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01-24-2012, 06:05 AM
  #58
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bring lats back, he was a beast then he got cheapshotted not his fault

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01-24-2012, 07:56 AM
  #59
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There's no way that Lats will be signed for less than his qualifying offer. His minimum salary (on a one year deal) will be $2.5MM.

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01-24-2012, 11:32 AM
  #60
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Exactly.

Wild have three options with Lats:

1. Give him qualifying offer ($2.5m)
- Lats can accept QO or decline it and try to negotiate a new deal

2. Take him to arbitration (at least $2.125m)
- Could get awarded that amount on up
- Team could walk away from ruling

3. Walk away ($0)

I'm guessing they give him a qualifying offer and he accepts, and they either keep him or try to trade him.

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01-24-2012, 11:36 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
There's no way that Lats will be signed for less than his qualifying offer. His minimum salary (on a one year deal) will be $2.5MM.
Even at $2.5 it's still worth it. We've all seen what he can do now that he's at a reasonable weight. So unless we trade for Rick Nash (not suggesting it), I'd re-sign Lats. We need some grit in the top 6 with smaller guys like Butch and Granlund.

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01-24-2012, 12:07 PM
  #62
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Even last year he was extremely effective compared to the rest of the team:

2011-12
ES P/60 2.45 (team best)
ES G/60 1.22 (team best)
PP P/60 0
PP G/60 0

2010-11
ES P/60 2.01
ES G/60 1.01 (team best)
PP P/60 6.42 (team best)
PP G/60 3.21 (team best)

2009-10
ES P/60 2.94 (team best)
ES G/60 1.82 (team best)
PP P/60 5.67
PP G/60 4.96 (team best)

Again, with that performance you don't just walk away from him.

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01-24-2012, 12:27 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Exactly.

Wild have three options with Lats:

1. Give him qualifying offer ($2.5m)
- Lats can accept QO or decline it and try to negotiate a new deal

2. Take him to arbitration (at least $2.125m)
- Could get awarded that amount on up
- Team could walk away from ruling

3. Walk away ($0)

I'm guessing they give him a qualifying offer and he accepts, and they either keep him or try to trade him.
You forgot:

4. Trade his RFA rights


If we can get sufficient return, trade the rights as he's an injury risk. If no one will offer "fair value" for his rights, keep him @ his QO.

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01-24-2012, 12:31 PM
  #64
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In order to keep his RFA rights he would have to be qualified.

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01-24-2012, 12:38 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
In order to keep his RFA rights he would have to be qualified.
He can be traded before qualifying offers are submitted.

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02-01-2012, 11:06 AM
  #66
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So, with the whole Zid fiasco, let's assume for a moment he's traded. For the purposes of this discussion, let's also assume it's for a pick (not a player). Zanon and Lundin will either be moved or not re-signed. Let's say Stoner is let go because of belief in Falk replacing him. This is our blue line:

[empty]-[empty]
Schultz-Spurgeon
Falk-[empty]
[empty]

How do we think those [empty] spaces will fill? Here's a possibility:



Schutlz-Spurgeon
Scandella-Brodin
Falk-Prosser
[depth guy]

That's two second pairings and a third pairing, which is honestly better than what we have this year. We end up with two pairings having a legitimate offensive threat (Spurgeon/Prosser) and one pairing that has two guys who can at least not panic when moving the puck. A bit of a weakness though is the lack of right handed shots. Only Prosser and Spurgeon have a right shot out of that group. Assuming we can't get Suter in free agency, but go after someone else, what would the defense look like?

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02-01-2012, 11:27 AM
  #67
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Ideally you'd go after Suter or another quality defenseman who can either move the puck or shut down the other team while playing well over 20 minutes a game.

If they bring in nobody at all, these wouldn't be bad:

Scandella-Spurgeon
Brodin-Schultz
Falk-Prosser

But ideally they'd bring in another veteran. Let's say they did get Suter (probably not but anyways):

Suter-Scandella
Spurgeon-Schultz
Brodin-Prosser/Falk

Something like that. I would shelter Brodin in terms of matchups, zone starts, and minutes for the first 2-3 months, unless he just runs away with it.

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02-01-2012, 02:00 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
If they bring in nobody at all, these wouldn't be bad:

Scandella-Spurgeon
Brodin-Schultz
Falk-Prosser
The only problem I have is that Scandella hasn't really stepped up. He's had a good start and then completely tapered off until he was demoted. He's a good second pairing defenseman but I don't see him as a top pairing and putting him in that position might not be good for his development.

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02-01-2012, 02:14 PM
  #69
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True...but Brodin on the top pairing would not be a good idea, and aside from him and Scandella nobody's really a top pairing guy.

I like the concept of Schultz-Brodin paired up because Schultz is fairly safe and a vet, while Brodin can actually move the puck but is obviously green.

Scandella-Spurgeon did work for big stretches. This is assuming he returns to form by the end of this season.

Best would be getting say Suter and running Suter-Scandella and Spurgeon-Schultz with Brodin developing in the minors. IMO.

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02-01-2012, 02:32 PM
  #70
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The way this team is headed it looks as if Brodin is going to be forced to play in the NHL right off the bat instead of getting the year in Houston I think he needs before joining the Wild.

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02-01-2012, 02:59 PM
  #71
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I thought it was NHL or SEL for Brodin next season.

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02-01-2012, 03:10 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haite View Post
I thought it was NHL or SEL for Brodin next season.
That's what word out of the front office has been.



RE: Scandella

People need to remember he wasn't supposed to be on the team at all this year. He was supposed to start the year in Houston, and only stayed in St. Paul because his play was too good to be sent down. He suffered a concussion, then fumbled a bit in his return and lost his confidence.

The Scandella that started this season would not be a liability on the top pairing. If he can find that form again (and he should be able to as it's a mental issue, not a physical one) I have no problem with putting him on a top pairing.

I like the concept of Brodin paired with Schultz, but I feel that would probably end up looking like the disastrous Schultz-Lundin pairing from earlier this year. I think that Brodin's game complements Scandella's far better than it does Schultz's, and that they'd make a more compatible pairing.

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02-01-2012, 03:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
T
People need to remember he wasn't supposed to be on the team at all this year.
That is a fallacy. We brought in Lundin and that was it. Scandella had the opportunity to outplay Lundin or any of the other defensemen and secure some time with the Wild, it's just that it might have been better if he had started out in Houston. He did have a try out with the Wild last year and didn't look out of place. But to say he should have been in Houston is not true. He was given the chance to secure a position and he did.

Quote:
He was supposed to start the year in Houston, and only stayed in St. Paul because his play was too good to be sent down.
Exactly. He was given a chance to secure a spot and did.

Quote:
He suffered a concussion, then fumbled a bit in his return and lost his confidence.
And that's a problem. If he lost confidence, that is pretty bad. We've seen some of our prospects lose confidence and never be the same again.

I just don't want to pencil in Scandella for a top pairing because it puts too much pressure on him.

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02-13-2012, 01:47 AM
  #74
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With the last few games, I think it's pretty clear what the Wild need; skill and guys resilient to injuries.

More specifically we need

1) At least 2 top 4 defensemen
2) Top 6 RW
3) Top 6 LW
4) 1st Line Center

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02-13-2012, 01:57 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
With the last few games, I think it's pretty clear what the Wild need; skill and guys resilient to injuries.

More specifically we need

1) At least 2 top 4 defensemen
2) Top 6 RW
3) Top 6 LW
4) 1st Line Center
Well, potentially there's Parise and Suter. So that's 2 of the 5 positions filled. Granlund will hopefully develop so that could be another. And then there's Brodin, so, looks like we might actually get some holes filled this offseason.

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