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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist

View Poll Results: Who ya got?
Mike Richter 83 30.97%
Henrik Lundqvist 185 69.03%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:38 AM
  #326
broadwayblue
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
I think you need to watch the 94 playoffs final 2 rounds and 07 playoffs again to start!
Oh, I hear you. But I was saying that Hank puts on a clinic on a regular basis. We are truly spoiled with his play every night. I'm not disagreeing that Richter had some sick stretches including the periods you mentioned. Just that day in and day out Hank has been better.

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:41 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Oh, I hear you. But I was saying that Hank puts on a clinic on a regular basis. We are truly spoiled with his play every night. I'm not disagreeing that Richter had some sick stretches including the periods you mentioned. Just that day in and day out Hank has been better.
We're a different team w/o Hank, he is the glue, and w/o a doubt our best player, never thought that of Richter...

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02-13-2012, 08:47 AM
  #328
NYR Sting
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So far this season, Biron has played almost exclusively against teams out of the playoff picture, or mediocre teams like FLA, WSH, and TOR. San Jose is the only very good team he has played against all season. In 1993-94, Glenn Healy appeared in games against a variety of opponents, including some of the top teams in the league. It's pretty silly to compare the numbers between 1993-94 and this season. We know that both goaltenders have been successful anytime they've been surrounded by talent. For Lundqvist, that hasn't been very often, but you see the results this season, or at the Olympics.

When you consider what both netminders have done when not surrounded by very much, however, the picture becomes a little bit clearer.

Henrik Lundqvist is going to be a Hall of Famer. From the day he's come into the league, he's been the most consistently strong goaltender in the league. Some have had better singular seasons, but he's been up there every single season. You don't have greatness without consistency. It's very likely that he wins multiple Vezina trophies in his career, and it's not his fault that he's been playing for **** teams that he had to drag into the playoffs on his back for his entire career prior to this season.

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:50 AM
  #329
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GWOW, you can't be implying that you actually think we have a better chance of winning with Biron in net than with Lundqvist. Biron plays mostly against much inferior teams.
Why do you think he's not seeing Philly's high-powered offense any time soon?
Why do you think he's not playing against the B's on Tuesday even though Hank has just come off b2b games?
I can name some games that wouldn't have been won if not for Hank:
Vancouver
First Pitt game
Buffalo
Winter Classic
Are you going to try and name me a game Biron has won that Hank wouldn't have?

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Old
02-13-2012, 09:15 AM
  #330
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Henrik. More consistent. More durable. Ricky always had a problem with his groin in the early part of his career and had knee issues plus concussion issues. He was a smaller goalie. He was great in 93-94. Inconsistent career.

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Old
02-13-2012, 09:45 AM
  #331
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To all you whippersnappers out there that were picking poo out of your diapers back in the early '90's, Richter stole numerous series for us...Was it a different time and a different makeup of a team, hell yes...But Game 7 of a Cup final, Richter gets the nod......for now

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Old
02-13-2012, 09:53 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by yankeecpt15 View Post
To all you whippersnappers out there that were picking poo out of your diapers back in the early '90's, Richter stole numerous series for us...Was it a different time and a different makeup of a team, hell yes...But Game 7 of a Cup final, Richter gets the nod......for now
How about ones where we weren't the favorites?

I was old enough to remember the mid-90's, and while I loved Richter, he led a charmed life with some good to great teams.

People talk about the cup, but to me, Richter was far more impressive in 97.

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Old
02-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
So far this season, Biron has played almost exclusively against teams out of the playoff picture, or mediocre teams like FLA, WSH, and TOR. San Jose is the only very good team he has played against all season. In 1993-94, Glenn Healy appeared in games against a variety of opponents, including some of the top teams in the league. It's pretty silly to compare the numbers between 1993-94 and this season. We know that both goaltenders have been successful anytime they've been surrounded by talent. For Lundqvist, that hasn't been very often, but you see the results this season, or at the Olympics.

When you consider what both netminders have done when not surrounded by very much, however, the picture becomes a little bit clearer.

Henrik Lundqvist is going to be a Hall of Famer. From the day he's come into the league, he's been the most consistently strong goaltender in the league. Some have had better singular seasons, but he's been up there every single season. You don't have greatness without consistency. It's very likely that he wins multiple Vezina trophies in his career, and it's not his fault that he's been playing for **** teams that he had to drag into the playoffs on his back for his entire career prior to this season.
Hank is not a hall of famer on what he has done so far in his career.

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Old
02-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How about ones where we weren't the favorites?

I was old enough to remember the mid-90's, and while I loved Richter, he led a charmed life with some good to great teams.

People talk about the cup, but to me, Richter was far more impressive in 97.
Very true, he kept us in the running until his concussions and knee injuries ended things. Fact remains that as Richter's health declined, so did our performance as a whole. Late 90s here.

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Old
02-13-2012, 12:18 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Hank is not a hall of famer on what he has done so far in his career.
that's sad yet true. He has the numbers of a great goaltender and will likely break some rangers records. Shutouts specifically. He needs to prove his merit in the playoffs and that's yet to be seen.

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02-13-2012, 12:41 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Richter915 View Post
that's sad yet true. He has the numbers of a great goaltender and will likely break some rangers records. Shutouts specifically. He needs to prove his merit in the playoffs and that's yet to be seen.
If he plays another 6-8 years and puts up similar numbers to what he's doing now he will be up there with some pretty good goalies in just about every category. Having said that if he doesnt win a Cup he may not get in. Never realized how few goalies are actually in the hall of fame. Theres 36 right now and I think out of them i've only seen 4 play. Of the 4 i've seen play all have won a Cup/Cups. Out of the rest i've heard of a lot of them and know most of them have won. Not sure how many were inducted that havent won the Cup so obviously it has something to do with it.

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Old
02-13-2012, 12:58 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Hank is not a hall of famer on what he has done so far in his career.
Pretty sure thats why he said "is going to be a hall of famer"

Obviously I care about what he does in the playoffs from here on out, but it will have little to no bearing regarding Lundqvist's HOF candidacy. If he duplicates the 1st 7 years of his career over the last 7, the man is a hall of famer.

People really need to learn how to compartmentalize TEAM playoff success, over one's individual accomplishments over the years.

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Richter915 View Post
Very true, he kept us in the running until his concussions and knee injuries ended things. Fact remains that as Richter's health declined, so did our performance as a whole. Late 90s here.
The latter part is where we disagree a bit. I dont think Richter could have rescued those **** teams, even if he was healthy.

When it comes to team success/the quality playing in front of them, Lundqvist and Richter's careers seem to be destined to be inverted. Meaning Lundqvist will get the good team in front of him in the latter half of his career. I guess we'll never fully know with Richter because he was an injury-plagued mess when the Rangers really went downhill.

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:02 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
If he plays another 6-8 years and puts up similar numbers to what he's doing now he will be up there with some pretty good goalies in just about every category. Having said that if he doesnt win a Cup he may not get in. Never realized how few goalies are actually in the hall of fame. Theres 36 right now and I think out of them i've only seen 4 play. Of the 4 i've seen play all have won a Cup/Cups. Out of the rest i've heard of a lot of them and know most of them have won. Not sure how many were inducted that havent won the Cup so obviously it has something to do with it.
great point. Furthermore, he's currently among some freakishly great goaltenders around him (Thomas, Rinne, Luongo) which screw him over on the vezina every year which is another big gauge for HOF consideration.

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:06 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What point are you trying to make? You sound like a fool when even trying to infer that this year's team is anywhere near as talented as the 94 team.

Did you watch the game today? Did you hear the analysts talking about how Lundqvist should be a Hart trophy finalist?

Remember how they were saying that about Richter in 94??? Yea, me neither.
None of what he said was untrue though he was a bit unfair with Zubov.

Lundqvist is a great goalie, no doubt about it, and his regular season play has certainly been better than Richter without a doubt. But there is no reason to call someone a fool in these threads for his kind of post, which to be honest was more accurate than the post he was quoting who was greatly exaggerating the quality of some Rangers. It's not conductive to solid discussion.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 02-13-2012 at 01:12 PM.
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Old
02-13-2012, 01:39 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How about ones where we weren't the favorites?

I was old enough to remember the mid-90's, and while I loved Richter, he led a charmed life with some good to great teams.

People talk about the cup, but to me, Richter was far more impressive in 97.
Yeah..charmed life having Mark Hardy and Randy Moller and Norman Rochefort, Ron Greschner (aging) and James Patrick in front of you. Bruce Driver was the No. 3 d-man in 1996 and 1997. Karpovtsev??? Please. Laziest d-man easily in the history of the franchise. How quickly people forget how old and slow Beukeboom and Ulf looked against the Pens in 1996 and the Devils and Flyers in 1997.

People forget that Leetch was an abomination in his own end until Keenan came. In 1990, Leetch was just as bad as MDZ was last year.

Bernie Nicholls? Mike Gartner? Darren Turcotte? Tony Amonte? Alexei Kovalev? Troy Mallete? Carey Wilson? John Ogrodnick?

Yeah, what a bunch of Selke candidates. Even Messier was a turnover machine. People think Messier was a "defensive" forward while a Ranger because of his SHG totals. But Messier was far from committed to defense and backchecking.

From 1990-1993, Richter had only three forwards -- Erixon, Graves and Nemchinov -- who were completely commited to backchecking and defense. Right now, Henrik has at least 6. Maybe 7 this season alone. And he played for a defense-oriented system his first 4 years.

The fact is that Richter's Rangers from 1990-1997 did not have a team commitment to defense. They were run and gun. There was a reason why Keenan (not Smith) traded away Patrick, Amonte, Gartner and Turcotte in 1994 for guys who were better in their own end.

I can end it right now.

Henrik = Regular season
Richter = Playoffs


Last edited by GWOW: 02-13-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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Old
02-13-2012, 01:42 PM
  #342
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So what you're basically saying, GWOW, is that Henrik just falls under pressure and we have no chance with him in the playoffs, right?

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02-13-2012, 01:48 PM
  #343
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Good poll. I had this discussion the other day with some family members. The older guys all said Mike Richter and the younger guys all said Henrik Lundqvist.

How could you vote against Mike Richter? He won us a cup. That save on Pavel Bure was one of the most spectacular saves I have ever seen. The whole point of playing hockey is to win the Cup and Richter did that. He helped end a 54 year drought.

On the other hand...

Henrik Lundqvist in my opinion is the best goalie in the NHL and once his career is over he could go down as one of the best goaltenders to ever play the game. He has sparkling numbers every year and is up for Vezina consideration almost every year. He is the first goalie to put up 30 wins in every season since entering the league. He has had marginal defence infront of him for his first few years. He is my second favourite player of all-time (Mark Messier).

I am undecided of the two.

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02-13-2012, 01:52 PM
  #344
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I think we should just agree that the two, all things considered, balance out.

The real debate: who has the better smile? Now that's a tough one.

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:56 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
How could you vote against Mike Richter? He won us a cup.
These two sentences alone signify how wayward this debate is going. Imagine, I had always thought the New York Rangers won the cup in '94, but I've learned in this thread that it was Mike Richter who won the cup.

Theres really no need for me to debate this anymore. Anyone who demonizes and mocks the top to bottom talent of the mid 90's teams compared to the 2005-2011 teams just comes off looking silly anyway.

Put it this way, if the current version of Henrik Lundqvist replaces Richter during the time period, I dont think the team misses a beat. Perhaps they even avoid the late goals that plagued Richter or the '92 disaster in Pittsburgh.

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:56 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Richter915 View Post
I think we should just agree that the two, all things considered, balance out.

The real debate: who has the better smile? Now that's a tough one.
Don't know about smile, but we all know who has the better hair.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #347
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Richter gets crucified for Game 4 in 1992 because of the Francis goal from outside the blue line.

Look at Penguins goals 1, 2, 4 and the OT winner.




Horrid defense No. 1 (0:36) -- Mike Needham grabs the puck along the boards on a 3-on-4. Beukeboom basically sits there along the boards with his thumb up his ass and King does a fairy wand wave at a guy wide open in the slot. Richter makes the 1st save but Needham buries the rebound totally unchecked.

Horrid defense No. 2 (1:26) -- Graves gets faked out of his jock strap by Paul Stanton at the point, and the shot is blocked in front. Richter goes out to challenge the shot but Beukeboom leaves Francis wide open behind him for an easy tap in.

Horrid defense No. 4 (2:53) -- Messier turns it over to Murphy at the blue line, and Leetch gets caught flat-footed by Jagr and they race to the corner. Jagr beats Leetch and Beukeboom to the outside, and Leetch doesnt check Loney for an easy tap in. Tie game.

Horrid defense No. 5 (5:30) -- Beezer in the game now. Just a horrible turnover by Messier. Horrible. When people ask "why was Moose booed at MSG in 1993), there's your answer.

This went on in Richter's entire career. "Charmed life" it was not. Give Richter a post-lockout Rangers commitment to defense, and you would have seen different results.


Last edited by GWOW: 02-13-2012 at 02:49 PM.
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Old
02-13-2012, 02:21 PM
  #348
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I still can't believe people bring up wins, regular season or playoffs, when talking about goalies.
Hank just lost 1-0 to the Debbies.
He may win 8-5 against them next time.
Which was the better goaltending performance?

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02-13-2012, 03:36 PM
  #349
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So what you're basically saying, GWOW, is that Henrik just falls under pressure and we have no chance with him in the playoffs, right?
I think some people take this thread too seriously. I think as we are all Ranger fans, we believe that both players are/were great, There are differences between both but we cheer(ed) hard for both of them. In the end, like all sports, you are elevated to a different status based on your championship success.

Lundqvist has not been around long enough to finialize a decision on whether he can win a championship. This year will be a great oppertunity.

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02-13-2012, 04:00 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Richter gets crucified for Game 4 in 1992 because of the Francis goal from outside the blue line.

Look at Penguins goals 1, 2, 4 and the OT winner.




Horrid defense No. 1 (0:36) -- Mike Needham grabs the puck along the boards on a 3-on-4. Beukeboom basically sits there along the boards with his thumb up his ass and King does a fairy wand wave at a guy wide open in the slot. Richter makes the 1st save but Needham buries the rebound totally unchecked.

Horrid defense No. 2 (1:26) -- Graves gets faked out of his jock strap by Paul Stanton at the point, and the shot is blocked in front. Richter goes out to challenge the shot but Beukeboom leaves Francis wide open behind him for an easy tap in.

Horrid defense No. 4 (2:53) -- Messier turns it over to Murphy at the blue line, and Leetch gets caught flat-footed by Jagr and they race to the corner. Jagr beats Leetch and Beukeboom to the outside, and Leetch doesnt check Loney for an easy tap in. Tie game.

Horrid defense No. 5 (5:30) -- Beezer in the game now. Just a horrible turnover by Messier. Horrible. When people ask "why was Moose booed at MSG in 1993), there's your answer.

This went on in Richter's entire career. "Charmed life" it was not. Give Richter a post-lockout Rangers commitment to defense, and you would have seen different results.
I can micro-manage the argument like this all week if you'd like. It bothers me you've taken it this way, and you've got me arguing against Richter - I have a huge, autographed picture of him holding up the cup on my wall. Its not like I have it out for the guy.

Its just that your logic for the whole thing is buried deep inside such a vacuum, and so inheritantly flawed. Im not going to let the wonderful memories of that glowing cup and a wonderful team mask the debate of one goaltender vs. the other. The fact that you've recently come to bashing the '94 team in front of Richter makes it even crazier.

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