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Old
02-12-2012, 11:52 PM
  #26
BringBackStevens
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I'm gettig tired of the constant buy mode on this team. For once recognize its not your year and look to cut some of the junk.

Carle needs to go, and I would waste a couple seconds just to be rid of Briere's contract

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02-12-2012, 11:54 PM
  #27
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The only player I could see moving is Carle since he's going to be UFA and he could fetch us someone for next season. Unless Pronger is going to be out next season then Carle might be one of the few UFA D who is worth signing. Either way you slice it I don't think any trades are going to happen especially with a lot of NMC/NTC players.

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02-13-2012, 12:00 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
The only player I could see moving is Carle since he's going to be UFA and he could fetch us someone for next season. Unless Pronger is going to be out next season then Carle might be one of the few UFA D who is worth signing. Either way you slice it I don't think any trades are going to happen especially with a lot of NMC/NTC players.

Obviously elevating Carle on the depth chart doesn't do much to replace Pronger. If he did, we wouldn't be complaining about the defense so much right now. If anything, retaining Carle (at a $5M+ cap hit) is prohibitive of acquiring a Pronger replacement.

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02-13-2012, 12:07 AM
  #29
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I'd be good with cutting the fat of this team. Get what we can for Carle.

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02-13-2012, 09:32 AM
  #30
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I'd love for us to replace Carle with Barrett Jackman. I know STL isnt going to trade him by the deadline, but he could reach free agency.

Unless he's not the player I remmeber him being, he's a good physical defenseman, blocks a lot of shots and logs tons of ice-time, especially on the PK

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02-13-2012, 10:26 AM
  #31
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Just a question to all you "sellers" out there. At what point should the team not be a seller? They have the third most points in the East. If they can sure up the defense and maybe add a winger, don't you think this already competitive would be more competitive? I'm not saying they are going to win if they make some moves, but its clear they aren't going to win if they stand pat or sell for futures. Trading for futures is no guarantee to help down the road either. It's not like these guys are fighting for the 8th spot right now.

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02-13-2012, 10:43 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Just a question to all you "sellers" out there. At what point should the team not be a seller? They have the third most points in the East. If they can sure up the defense and maybe add a winger, don't you think this already competitive would be more competitive? I'm not saying they are going to win if they make some moves, but its clear they aren't going to win if they stand pat or sell for futures. Trading for futures is no guarantee to help down the road either. It's not like these guys are fighting for the 8th spot right now.
At what price?

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Old
02-13-2012, 10:44 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Just a question to all you "sellers" out there. At what point should the team not be a seller? They have the third most points in the East. If they can sure up the defense and maybe add a winger, don't you think this already competitive would be more competitive? I'm not saying they are going to win if they make some moves, but its clear they aren't going to win if they stand pat or sell for futures. Trading for futures is no guarantee to help down the road either. It's not like these guys are fighting for the 8th spot right now.
because the two most important things you need for a cup run, solid defensive play and great goaltending, has not been shown this season

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02-13-2012, 10:45 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
At what price?
Picks/prospects for just a solid defender to replace MAB/Gus. More if it is a more long term solution like Suter/Weber/Schenn/other better defender.

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02-13-2012, 10:51 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Picks/prospects for just a solid defender to replace MAB/Gus. More if it is a more long term solution like Suter/Weber/Schenn/other better defender.
Dude, what prospects? we do not have prospects. Look around. Look at the state of our farm team. Phantoms = crap.
We do not have picks either. We must draft. Our window of opportunity is officially closed as soon as we heard that Pronger is out for the rest of this year and playoffs. Most think his career is over.

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02-13-2012, 10:54 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
because the two most important things you need for a cup run, solid defensive play and great goaltending, has not been shown this season
Which is why I said if they can sure up the defense. I agree that this team the way it is is not winning anything. But if you can improve the defense to make the team one that can compete, why not do it? trading Carle for a 2nd rounder (or even a first) is going to hurt this team this year and may or may not improve it in the future. Trading picks or prospects for likely wouldn't hurt the team this year and could wind up helping them in the future. It's not like I am talking about trading Claude Giroux to get Ryan Parent back.

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02-13-2012, 10:59 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Dude, what prospects? we do not have prospects. Look around. Look at the state of our farm team. Phantoms = crap.
We do not have picks either. We must draft. Our window of opportunity is officially closed as soon as we heard that Pronger is out for the rest of this year and playoffs. Most think his career is over.
??? First of all, we have plenty of picks. Second of all, players like MAB, Gus, Wellwood, etc have value. We aren't going to get Shea Weber for any of them, but if we go after a lesser defender a prospect and a pick should get the job done.

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02-13-2012, 11:06 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Which is why I said if they can sure up the defense. I agree that this team the way it is is not winning anything. But if you can improve the defense to make the team one that can compete, why not do it? trading Carle for a 2nd rounder (or even a first) is going to hurt this team this year and may or may not improve it in the future. Trading picks or prospects for likely wouldn't hurt the team this year and could wind up helping them in the future. It's not like I am talking about trading Claude Giroux to get Ryan Parent back.
Bringing in Hal Gill isnt going to "sure up the defense"

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02-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
??? First of all, we have plenty of picks. Second of all, players like MAB, Gus, Wellwood, etc have value.
Very minimal. We do not have picks we can trade. Homer have been trading 1st round picks like crazy ever since he became GM and now it is time to chill. When was the last we drafted with exception of Couturier.

We cannot trade our picks . We did not draft in ages with exception of this year when the whole drama broke down and we traded Both Carter & Richards.
Once again look at the state of our farm team.
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
We aren't going to get Shea Weber for any of them, but if we go after a lesser defender a prospect and a pick should get the job done.
When you say "get the job done" what do you mean?

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02-13-2012, 11:13 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Bringing in Hal Gill isnt going to "sure up the defense"
Good point. Lets trade forget about this season. It's over. Let's get that 2nd round pick for Carle (hell even a first rounder!). Then when the Flyers win the first round and lose in the second round everyone can complain that Homer didn't make any moves!

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02-13-2012, 11:14 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Just a question to all you "sellers" out there. At what point should the team not be a seller? They have the third most points in the East. If they can sure up the defense and maybe add a winger, don't you think this already competitive would be more competitive? I'm not saying they are going to win if they make some moves, but its clear they aren't going to win if they stand pat or sell for futures. Trading for futures is no guarantee to help down the road either. It's not like these guys are fighting for the 8th spot right now.
If we sell Carle, we're effectively writing off the season, as we're not going to be able to find a UFA rental to replace is 22-23 minutes/night while covering for Bourdon, except Suter who isn't going to be available, probably ever.

They HAVE to be buyers, only because they need to make the playoffs (for the experience for the kids and Bryz) and the revenue for the owners), esp. since they are well in range to make the playoffs now.

The key is adding to the D, and some size at F, without giving up too much future. This may not be a 'buy everything for a run at the Cup NOW' year, but it also isn't a 'give up hope in February' year either.

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02-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Very minimal. We do not have picks we can trade. Homer have been trading 1st round picks like crazy ever since he became GM and now it is time to chill. When was the last we drafted with exception of Couturier.

We cannot trade our picks . We did not draft in ages with exception of this year when the whole drama broke down and we traded Both Carter & Richards.
Once again look at the state of our farm team.
The state of our farm team is bad, yes. But our big club is filled with about half rookies and kids under 25...

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When you say "get the job done" what do you mean?
I mean acquire a player. MAB and a pick, Gus and a pick, etc should get the Flyers a player. It won't get them Weber, but it should get them an upgrade over MAB or Gus.

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02-13-2012, 11:27 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Good point. Lets trade forget about this season. It's over. Let's get that 2nd round pick for Carle (hell even a first rounder!). Then when the Flyers win the first round and lose in the second round everyone can complain that Homer didn't make any moves!
oh ok, so you're the kind of naive fan that, no matter how many holes these team has, you'll always think they'll have a shot at winning the cup.

then by all means, make the Hal Gill trade

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02-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The state of our farm team is bad, yes. But our big club is filled with about half rookies and kids under 25...
If you agreed that farm club is crap then you know that trading our picks and prospects finally caught up with us.
Homer pulled trigger for almost 5 years trading left and right and now we need to do the right thing. The right thing would be to trade vets or do not do anything. Maybe, make one small move.
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I mean acquire a player. MAB and a pick, Gus and a pick, etc should get the Flyers a player. It won't get them Weber, but it should get them an upgrade over MAB or Gus.
I mean if we are talking about getting guy like Grossman I would go for it. Only because we have a shot to re-sign him later.
I already told you that every team and I do mean every team has Gus/MAB type prospects. These guys will be throw ins. They have no value. This is not even an argument.

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02-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I'm gettig tired of the constant buy mode on this team. For once recognize its not your year and look to cut some of the junk.
So how many NHL teams have specifically won a cup because they were sellers? (Hint: The number is much smaller then the buyers number)

Also Ms. Cleo, how do you know who is going to win the cup this year? In all the 4 major sports how often does the best looking team ever win? Correct me if I am wrong... but... Did the Phillies win the World Series this year? Did the Packers win the Super Bowl this year? Did the Miami Heat win the NBA championship? Did the Canucks win the Stanley Cup last year? You must be psychic to know the Flyers can't win the cup this year no matter what roster moves or possible changes they make.

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02-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #46
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Ohh so we comparing football and baseball to hockey now? Apples and oranges.

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02-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
oh ok, so you're the kind of naive fan that, no matter how many holes these team has, you'll always think they'll have a shot at winning the cup.

then by all means, make the Hal Gill trade
Yup. I am the kind of naive fan who doesn't give up on a season when the team is in 4th place (3rd in points) with two and a half months to go. I guess you are the kind of well informed level-headed fan that gives up at that point and trades for the ever so valuable second round picks that will surely make this team a contender for years to come. Screw the present, the future is all that matters and any moves made to benefit the future will always turn out better than those done to benefit the present. A bird in the hand is not worth two in the bush.

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If you agreed that farm club is crap then you know that trading our picks and prospects finally caught up with us.
Not at all. You don't really need a top notch farm team when your NHL team is filled with young talent. If our team was just old vets and we were struggling here, then I'd be very concerned with the state of the Phantoms. But when we have a roster where only five players are over thirty and the best players on our team (with the exception of Timonen) are under 25, I don't think its a big deal if MAB and GUS are the best players the Phantoms have to offer. Show me an NHL team with as many young talented players as the Flyers that also has a stocked farm system. You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

Quote:
Homer pulled trigger for almost 5 years trading left and right and now we need to do the right thing. The right thing would be to trade vets or do not do anything. Maybe, make one small move.
I mean if we are talking about getting guy like Grossman I would go for it. Only because we have a shot to re-sign him later.
So we are in a rebuilding mode because we are in fourth place and stocked with youth? You really think a second round pick for Matt Carle is going to help this team more than trading a second round pick for a defender? Get real, man. When did draft picks become more valuable than actual NHL players?

Quote:
I already told you that every team and I do mean every team has Gus/MAB type prospects. These guys will be throw ins. They have no value. This is not even an argument.
Oh ok. You're right. Thanks. Borderline NHL prospects never get traded.

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Old
02-13-2012, 11:49 AM
  #48
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Ohh so we comparing football and baseball to hockey now? Apples and oranges.
It's true though. How can anyone tell me who is and isn't going to win the cup this year? You can't, besides you know Columbus and all though because they suck.(already eliminated I believe). I still believe a net front presence on our back end will help this team out a whole lot. A fourth line player/center wouldn't hurt either. If they can move Carle and get something decent in return I would be happy. Carle would probably be the best offensive dman on the block and I think he would fetch a late first rounder. Nick Grossman would do this team wonders. Also we need someone who can just get a shot from the point on the damn net!

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02-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #49
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Ohh so we comparing football and baseball to hockey now? Apples and oranges.
The comparison had very little to do with the games themselves. If you want to complain about the reference just look at the hockey one it doesn't change the point.

Are these the Stanley Cup Champs?

2011: Canucks over Capitals
2010: Capitals over Sharks
2009: Sharks over Bruins
2008: Red Wings over Canadiens
2007: Sabres over Red Wings
2006: Red Wings over Senators
2004: Red Wings over Lightning
2003: Senators over Stars
2002: Red Wings over Bruins
2001: Avs over Devils
2000: Blues over Flyers


In your world has this been the Cup finals each year? lol
How many of those teams actually won the cup those years? (Answer 2)
How many of those were the actual match ups?
(Answer 1)

Percentages say the cup winner and cup finals will involve teams that aren't expected to be the best during the season.

Point: Selling because your team had a slump despite easily holding a playoff spot is retarded.

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02-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #50
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Pretty straight forward:

1.) When has a playoff team (ignoring the fact that we're the 4 seed) ever sold? I cannot ever recall this having happened, but perhaps in the cirsumstance of a small market team with a major impending UFA (Parise perhaps) it has.

2.) The NHL playoffs are notoriously wide open. A hot goalie is the great equalizer. Bryz has played poorly so far, but there's nothing to suggest he's 100% incapable of going full Michael Leighton circa 2010.

That said, if Holmgren were really smart, he could hedge his bets. Carle for a 1st, then bring in Gil and Grossman for a combined 2nd, 3rd and AHL or lower prospect.

You don't need to blow up all the vets for this team to be mildly competitive this year and even more competitive next season.

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