How's Da costas body doing? Phaneuf need to have another meeting with him? Crackerjacks nose set in place yet? Foligno still dizzy? Cowen need another whupping? Nothing better than seeing the senators physically abused and a ***** fan like yourself all upset HAHA. You whine in the main board about the leafs and you whine in here. Closet leafer.
How's Da costas body doing? Phaneuf need to have another meeting with him? Crackerjacks nose set in place yet? Foligno still dizzy? Cowen need another whupping? Nothing better than seeing the senators physically abused and a ***** fan like yourself all upset HAHA. You whine in the main board about the leafs and you whine in here. Closet leafer.
LOL. What are you talking about? I love the Leafs.
The whole team was garbage and played with no heart, "clueless". So who on the Habs is tougher than Brown, Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn, Rosehill? Travis Moen? Let me guess, it must be the gentle giant, Hal Gill. Sadly enough most of the Leafs can't even fight. Habs are worse.
The Habs top-9 forwards have gotten notbaly bigger and more physical recently. They're much better forecheckers, tougher along the boards and quite a bit bigger than the Leafs... particularly Cole, Bourque, Pacioretty, Moen, Kostitsyn and to a lesser extent; Plekanec.
Also, Subban, Gorges and Emelin are pretty solid competitors on defense that you didn't list because they didn't fit your dismissal of the Habs emerging toughness.
Your bias is showing. Yes he can be a goon but he is a good role player and a great face off man.
Wow, like a Brown/Steckel hybrid? That actually sounds pretty good, having two roles in one, in the place of two roles in two players. Saves a roster spot for another hockey player does it not?
The post i made was to show how far the leafs have fallen as a physical team that one player has more fights than the entire leaf team.....something we have not observed in years....even with Brian Burkes committment to a physical team...
The post i made was to show how far the leafs have fallen as a physical team that one player has more fights than the entire leaf team.....something we have not observed in years....even with Brian Burkes committment to a physical team...
Well, I think there is a thread called "Burke's team - Not what he promised", which seems to coincide with your suggestion that he has failed to live up to his big, tough words. It would make a good discussion piece there, but this is fine too.
My own opinion is that our fourth line should not even be considered when evaluating the team's toughness. The fourth line could have easily been filled with free wallets like Darryl Boyce, Mike Zigomanis, and Jay Rosehill without needing to throw away draft picks for guys like Steckel and Brown.
The post i made was to show how far the leafs have fallen as a physical team that one player has more fights than the entire leaf team.....something we have not observed in years....even with Brian Burkes committment to a physical team...
Again, winning and being especially tough/fighting don't go hand in hand. Having guys like Konopka, Orr, Rosehill, etc. is not really contributing to any success, nor does it make the Leafs a tougher team to play against in any way. It might satisfy your own blood lust to see a PK Subban get some street justice for touching one of our stars, but if you truly want a "tough" team, you're better off building with guys who can persevere and play their own game in light of being run (a la Detroit) or you should be building a roster that can handle themselves from the top to the bottom, like Boston. Having some goons sitting around taking up a 4th line role doesn't add anything to a winning formula. If prospects like Bigg and Ross pan out, those are the elements you'd ideally be looking for for team toughness. Not this goon ****.
Ugh, the Bruins are the defending champs. They took over the Cup final when Thornton was put back into the lineup. From that point on they physically dominated Vancouver. It got to the point when Marchand punched Sedin repeatedly in the head, and not one single player did anything about it. It was the ultimate humiliation for Vancouver to see their superstar mistreated and disrespected like that.
The pevious year it was the Hawks who won it all (and they got past the Canucks largely because Byfuglien spent the entire series either parked on top of Luongo or running him over, and the Nucks had no one who could handle him).
Look at the top teams this year. Toughness, hitting, and yes...even fighting are a common trait among most of them.
Mistreated? HF is such a joke with this crap. They ask for a player that does anything to win, the Sedins were trying to draw a penalty. Boston had unreal goaltending and bias reffing. They're not the best team in the league this year, and just because they won the cup last year doesn't make it so. New season new story.
And in the previous years when the hawks play detroit, Byfuglien did nothing. Size isn't hitting and toughness. The hawks also beat the Canucks because of unreal depth and some of the best 3rd lines.
Like I said, detroit has 12 fights, Nashville has 18. Toughness isn't hitting and fighting, toughness is taking the hits. Datsyuk is a tough SOB, he doesn't ever drop the mits.
Again, winning and being especially tough/fighting don't go hand in hand. Having guys like Konopka, Orr, Rosehill, etc. is not really contributing to any success, nor does it make the Leafs a tougher team to play against in any way. It might satisfy your own blood lust to see a PK Subban get some street justice for touching one of our stars, but if you truly want a "tough" team, you're better off building with guys who can persevere and play their own game in light of being run (a la Detroit) or you should be building a roster that can handle themselves from the top to the bottom, like Boston. Having some goons sitting around taking up a 4th line role doesn't add anything to a winning formula. If prospects like Bigg and Ross pan out, those are the elements you'd ideally be looking for for team toughness. Not this goon ****.
Like I said, detroit has 12 fights, Nashville has 18. Toughness isn't hitting and fighting, toughness is taking the hits. Datsyuk is a tough SOB, he doesn't ever drop the mits.
That's right. Toughness can be the obvious kind like Boston's mix of size, aggression, grinding style and physical intimidation, or it can be the Datsyuk kind of toughness where you just go out and have the balls to play your game your way, while taking the punishment and punishing the opposition by capitalizing on their mistakes and penalties.
When Pat Quinn was coaching the Leafs, the first chance they got , Roberts and Corson were signed because he knew you can't win the Cup in the NHL without tough players. New Jersey, Anaheim, Pittsburg, Boston, Chicago, all had tough (not goons)players. The Leafs have to get some size and gritt in their top 9. You also have to get a like-minded coach as well.
When Pat Quinn was coaching the Leafs, the first chance they got , Roberts and Corson were signed because he knew you can't win the Cup in the NHL without tough players. New Jersey, Anaheim, Pittsburg, Boston, Chicago, all had tough (not goons)players. The Leafs have to get some size and gritt in their top 9. You also have to get a like-minded coach as well.
Except Pat Quinn never won the cup, and the Leafs were often a terrible team whose only redeeming quality was Hall of Fame goaltending. Corson and Roberts helped us beat down on Ottawa, who dominated our end, and we never got past teams like New Jersey and Philadelphia because they were top to bottom more talented and tougher. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay played their game their way, and won a cup in 2004. Go figure.
That's right. Toughness can be the obvious kind like Boston's mix of size, aggression, grinding style and physical intimidation, or it can be the Datsyuk kind of toughness where you just go out and have the balls to play your game your way, while taking the punishment and punishing the opposition by capitalizing on their mistakes and penalties.
I think Thomas Holmstrom is one tough SOB......how many crosschecks has that guy taken in the back? I don't think I have ever seen him discouraged from getting into his "office" (in front of the goalies face...hehehhe).
I am in full agreement with the your notion of one-dimensional goons being obsolete and not really a contributing factor to success. I really love watching the Bruins (not against the Leafs however as they tend to destroy the Buds), but in the playoffs. They just punish teams and wear them down. I love that kind of hockey. But as you said toughness comes in many flavors and one does not have to drop the gloves to demonstrate it. My example of Holmstrom and that of Datsyuk are exactly the tough players who don't need to fight but are winners to have on your team.
Except Pat Quinn never won the cup, and the Leafs were often a terrible team whose only redeeming quality was Hall of Fame goaltending. Corson and Roberts helped us beat down on Ottawa, who dominated our end, and we never got past teams like New Jersey and Philadelphia because they were top to bottom more talented and tougher. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay played their game their way, and won a cup in 2004. Go figure.
The Leafs came very close, and probably would have won it the year Domi had the brain cramp and changed the series against New Jersey with the elbow to Neidermyer.
The Leafs came very close, and probably would have won it the year Domi had the brain cramp and changed the series against New Jersey with the elbow to Neidermyer.
My point is not that we fight all of the time....its that for 4 years the fight totals have declined for the Leafs....to the point this year that one player on another team has more fights than the entire team..its just an observation...
I am not a kid and played forward in Rugby for Brock University for 5 years and play semi pro now in Hawaii, i think i know a thing or two about being physical and gritty...
My point was only to note were getting progressively less physical...The Montreal game was a sham...we got killed on the boards and kessel got roughed up and no one responded....Its been a long time since i recall that behaviour on leafs..
My point is not that we fight all of the time....its that for 4 years the fight totals have declined for the Leafs....to the point this year that one player on another team has more fights than the entire team..its just an observation...
I am not a kid and played forward in Rugby for Brock University for 5 years and play semi pro now in Hawaii, i think i know a thing or two about being physical and gritty...
My point was only to note were getting progressively less physical...The Montreal game was a sham...we got killed on the boards and kessel got roughed up and no one responded....Its been a long time since i recall that behaviour on leafs..
Again, physicality or toughness DOES NOT correlate directly with the number of fights we get into. That's why I find this whole thread absolutely pointless; it flat-out doesn't follow from "our team gets in few fights" that "our team is less physical/tough".
And that's without even considering the fact that the year we stop dressing people like Orr, Rosehill, Jamal Mayars, etc. is the year we're in a playoff spot in mid-February. That's the bottom line so please, /thread.
Rangers, Flyers, Bruins at the top of the number-of-fights list, and Canucks close to them. All at/near the top of the standings. Bottom in fights is Detroit - an anomaly - and the teams with the least points in the league. Toronto is near the bottom in fights, as are the Marlies in the AHL.
This does mean something.
The Leafs are being taken more seriously by the top teams as they are sniffing around for a play-off spot, which translates to more tough grinding games. Think the other teams haven't seen Subban manhandle Kessel and get away with it? Geez, out-muscled and intimidated by the Habs. The Habs?!?!?!??? Burkie, Burkie, Burkie...
My point is not that we fight all of the time....its that for 4 years the fight totals have declined for the Leafs....to the point this year that one player on another team has more fights than the entire team..its just an observation...
I am not a kid and played forward in Rugby for Brock University for 5 years and play semi pro now in Hawaii, i think i know a thing or two about being physical and gritty...
My point was only to note were getting progressively less physical...The Montreal game was a sham...we got killed on the boards and kessel got roughed up and no one responded....Its been a long time since i recall that behaviour on leafs..
And once again, your preference for toughness probably says more about what you want to see from an entertainment point of view than it does about the state of the hockey team.
The point that the Leafs have seen their fight totals decline over the past four years is meaningless, since they're actually a much improved team today in the standings than they were in 2009, 2010 or 2011. Not to mix correlation with causality of course, but when they're winning more and fighting less, how can you point to a period of time when they were fighting more and losing more as a place where this team should get back to?
It's laughable that you use Konopka as an example of the kind of toughness this team needs. In a word, no. We need more impact players like Lucic, sure. But what we really need is everyone up and down the roster to respond to adversity the way Grabovski came back and scored the game winner against Boston after Chara mugged him twice. That's toughness.
