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stick flex discussion

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Old
02-13-2012, 10:04 AM
  #51
vyktor
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Add 6'2" 208# James Neal to the whip stick list uses a 70 flex not sure I've even seen him take a slapper in a Pens uni, but what a wrister.

I'm 6'4" and i like my sticks short so I can stick handle better, Thanks to HFB for that advice, I use a 75 flex guys on my team always ask how I get such a hard wrist shot.

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Old
02-13-2012, 10:23 AM
  #52
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People have to keep in mind though, that shooting is about technique. Just because you purchase a top end stick of whatever brand, doesn't mean you are going to be able to shoot like a pro. You see so many people who have poor technique thinking they can go and buy the best stick and they will magically know how to shoot like Ovechkin (as an example).

Also - using pro players and their flexes as references is not the best thing to do either. Remember....most pro (NHL, AHL, even many OHL(CHL)) players have sticks customized to suit their needs. It's not like Kessel walks into Source for Sports and orders an entire rack in intermediate sticks. Plus, I am pretty sure Kessel's sticks have a sr size blade and the low end sr flex, but has intermediate shaft dimensions (hence the customized pro stock).

Plus comparing a low-mid level stick to a high end one is going to be a big difference too, even with the same flex rating.

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02-13-2012, 10:25 AM
  #53
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The reason I use height as a guideline and not weight or position is because, in my opinion, the dominant factor is length of the stick. The longer the stick, the greater the amount of torque you can put on it.

Let's take two players. Say they have equal strength, in that they can both bench, squat, curl, whatever measure you want, the same amount of weight.

Their body weight is irrelevant. There are guys who are 150 pounds and can bench 200 just like there are guys who are 250 pounds who can bench 200.

That 5'6 player will be using a stick roughly 6" shorter than the 6' player. Chop off 6" of stick and you're increasing the flex roughly 20-30 percent (per Bauer's guidelines). The short player would have to put 20-30% more effort/force into the stick to achieve the same deflection.

So those heights are a starting point, just to get everyone on equal footing. It's nice to try other flexes but usually you'll land in that range.

I remember doing a poll over at Mod Squad and gathering 100 responses or so looking at height and weight and flex and there was a pretty solid correlation between height and stick flex. There's also a correlation between weight and flex but only because there's a correlation between weight and height. Especially when you're looking at scrawny teens and schlubby beer leaguers like me

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Old
02-13-2012, 10:27 AM
  #54
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Also I'm pretty sure Kessel's up to 75 flex on his sticks by now. He was a 67 guy in college. Stick seems pretty short too.

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02-13-2012, 10:36 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Also I'm pretty sure Kessel's up to 75 flex on his sticks by now. He was a 67 guy in college. Stick seems pretty short too.
I am sure you are right on this, but I am also pretty sure has his sticks made with int. shaft dimensions. Also looks like he is glad his Bauer endorsement ended as he sure likes the S19( or Easton product painted as such) and is producing better with it!

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02-13-2012, 10:36 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
Having better gear will never make you a better skilled player but having gear that isn't appropriate for you will hinder your ability. Interesting paradox.
Of course, if wayne gretzky wore a garbage can for shoulder pads, cement blocks for gloves & a lamp shade for a helmet he probably wouldn't have had such a good career. Lets assume that every player has gear that fits them reasonably well & isn't uncomfortable.

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Old
02-13-2012, 10:43 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Also I'm pretty sure Kessel's up to 75 flex on his sticks by now. He was a 67 guy in college. Stick seems pretty short too.
If he's got a 75 flex stick & cuts it down 4" (lets use 4flex increase per inch), his stick would end up as a 91 (a very average flex). Most people don't understand how much length affects flex.

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02-13-2012, 11:26 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
The reason I use height as a guideline and not weight or position is because, in my opinion, the dominant factor is length of the stick. The longer the stick, the greater the amount of torque you can put on it.

Let's take two players. Say they have equal strength, in that they can both bench, squat, curl, whatever measure you want, the same amount of weight.

Their body weight is irrelevant. There are guys who are 150 pounds and can bench 200 just like there are guys who are 250 pounds who can bench 200.

That 5'6 player will be using a stick roughly 6" shorter than the 6' player. Chop off 6" of stick and you're increasing the flex roughly 20-30 percent (per Bauer's guidelines). The short player would have to put 20-30% more effort/force into the stick to achieve the same deflection.

So those heights are a starting point, just to get everyone on equal footing. It's nice to try other flexes but usually you'll land in that range.

I remember doing a poll over at Mod Squad and gathering 100 responses or so looking at height and weight and flex and there was a pretty solid correlation between height and stick flex. There's also a correlation between weight and flex but only because there's a correlation between weight and height. Especially when you're looking at scrawny teens and schlubby beer leaguers like me

so in reality the shorter guy, would buy a less flexy stick (when uncut) but when he cuts it, its the same flex as the guy with the longer uncut stick

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02-13-2012, 11:34 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanityplease View Post
If he's got a 75 flex stick & cuts it down 4" (lets use 4flex increase per inch), his stick would end up as a 91 (a very average flex). Most people don't understand how much length affects flex.
I wonder if he gets them made that way though or are they cut down. Like some one said he's not going to the store and buying off the rack, they are made for him. if stock stick length is 58" is his a 75flex cut to 54" or a 54" stick made with a 75 flex. Likewise is Chara's 65" 127 flex more like a 59" with a 7 " plug really only a 99 flex.

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Old
02-13-2012, 11:53 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vyktor View Post
I wonder if he gets them made that way though or are they cut down. Like some one said he's not going to the store and buying off the rack, they are made for him. if stock stick length is 58" is his a 75flex cut to 54" or a 54" stick made with a 75 flex. Likewise is Chara's 65" 127 flex more like a 59" with a 7 " plug really only a 99 flex.
Good question, I've always assumed that they cut down their own sticks, they used to anyway. If Kessel uses a 75 flex SHAFT, that's really flimsy for an nhl player, it makes more sense that he'd cut it it down as it would end up stiffer. I use a 90 & cut it down to below my chin, 75 is too flimsy for me. I'm pretty fit/strong & can shoot well, but definetely don't have an nhl shot.

Chara on the other hand, has that exemption & is allowed a longer one so I don't know.

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02-13-2012, 12:05 PM
  #61
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75 cut down gets pretty stiff. I had a guy who uses a 100 test my stick and he was surprised.

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02-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #62
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NHL players get a ton of flex on their stick. I know they're strong guys, but I'm sure they also use whippier twigs to get this kind of flex.

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02-13-2012, 12:52 PM
  #63
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=Wilch;44065759
NHL players get a ton of flex on their stick. I know they're strong guys, but I'm sure they also use whippier twigs to get this kind of flex.
That's technique>strength. With the new stick technology, wrist shots have changed, they're more like a snap shot. Elite players now 'load up' the stick by leaning heavily on it with a forward swinging arm motion then release/raise/maximize the sticks energy.

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02-13-2012, 01:01 PM
  #64
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Yep. You're getting some of that power of the slapper with most of the accuracy of the wrister. Wristers are pretty much just for passing now, aside from the odd look off goal.

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02-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
75 cut down gets pretty stiff. I had a guy who uses a 100 test my stick and he was surprised.
Jarick, a bit off topic, but have you ever considered a TO int 75 flex?
the reason i ask is because i know you are a big fan of the x60 in similar specs.
I also became a huge fan of the same spec x60, but just never liked the feel or how it received passes.
finally snapped it after a solid year of use so it gave me an excuse to pick up something different. imo, it seems to compare quite favorably to my x60 and I know actually have a bit of velocity in my snapshots(went from practically non existent to slightly below average lol). And slappers (where the x60 was no slouch) are even a touch harder and a bit more consistent. feel and receiving passes are also better, imo...not quite as pingy/bouncy.
I know you weren't a fan of the one95, but this seems to play differently from the 77 flex I had.
just a thought.

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02-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #66
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I'm actually going to go 67 flex APX once my X:60 goes. The 75 felt great cut to my chin but I've since gone 1-2" shorter than that and it's pretty stiff, even after breaking in. Plus the new APX has the blade feel of the Supreme series and is super light weight.

The X:60 has been a beast for me though. The blade is starting to crack quite a bit at the heel now and just starting to lose stiffness. Impressive because I have probably 50-60 skates on it.

The One95...I used a 67 flex and didn't dig it so much. The 77 flex was better but that thing had a crack in it and was super broken in by a D1 college guy by the time I got it. I probably wouldn't be able to flex a new 77 much. Also, don't dig the boxy shaft, the Vapor feels perfect.

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02-13-2012, 02:52 PM
  #67
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jarrick, how much do you cut off of your hockey sticks?

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02-13-2012, 02:58 PM
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I think 3-4" off an intermediate? And then I chopped another 4-5" and put a plug in for balance/top hand kick. Easily would be 6-8" off a senior stick.

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02-13-2012, 03:10 PM
  #69
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so its around a 90 flex stick, give or take when your done cutting

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02-13-2012, 03:11 PM
  #70
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Yeah I'd be dropping prob from a 90-95 down to an 80-85.

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02-13-2012, 03:12 PM
  #71
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Yeah I'd be dropping prob from a 90-95 down to an 80-85.
ah ok

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:05 PM
  #72
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I'm 5'7 158 lbs. I use 87 flex vapour pkane curve. When cut it's probably a 95 flex? I have really strong wrists/fore arms so I can flex it real good giving me a really quick release/ fast shot. If you can use the higher flex do it.


Last edited by Jarick: 02-13-2012 at 04:37 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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Old
02-13-2012, 04:38 PM
  #73
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How much do you cut it? That thing has to be as tall as you at that flex!

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02-13-2012, 04:50 PM
  #74
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my sticks are that way to, i barely cut senior 102 flex sticks and i am 5'10

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02-13-2012, 05:28 PM
  #75
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My thoughts on the matter/the debate in this thread, based purely on my personal experience:

- I do tend to use sticks that are a bit whippier than most people of my height/weight/experience. I'm 6', 180 lbs, have been playing hockey regularly for nearly 20 years, cut my sticks down about 2.5", and I find a 77 flex Bauer Vapour to give me my hardest shot (in contrast a 77 Supreme feels a touch whippier than I'd like, and a 87 flex Supreme a touch stiffer than I'd like, low kick Vapours tend to feel a bit stiffer than mid kick Supremes, an 82 flex Supreme would probably be perfect for me)

- I definitely HAVE experienced sticks that are too whippy for me, and I feel an overly whippy stick takes away from both my shot velocity and accuracy. I have an 75 flex Base that feels quite a bit whippier than other 75 flex sticks I've used, and while I get shots that are consistently decently hard, I simply cannot fire off rockets with it like I can with a somewhat stiffer stick, and my slapshots especially suffer. I also find my accuracy to suffer with overly whippy sticks, shots just seem more unpredictable

- I do prefer different stiffnesses for different shots. My slappers are hardest with mid flex sticks (think 85ish), my "pure" snappers (with very little pull in motion) are hardest with sticks that are on the stiff side of whip flexes (like a 77 flex Vapour), while my more classic wrist shots (with a long drag/pull in motion, where I shoot more from the toe and with more wrist action, think an Ovechkin style shot) are hardest with really whippy sticks

- I do like stiffer sticks for faceoffs/puck battles, and for giving and especially receiving passes (sometimes whippy sticks will flex when receiving hard passes, and sort of shoot the puck off your blade)



At the end of the day I take mostly "pure" snap shots (quick release, only a slight drag in motion, similar to how guys like Ryder, Kessel and Gaborik shoot), so I like a stick that is on the stiff side of a whip flex (like a 77 flex Vapour). I also don't find it to be too much of a detriment in terms of passing and faceoffs/puck battles, unlike with some really whippy whip flex sticks, where I definitely DO notice the difference. If my game was more based around slap shots and passing, I would probably use an 85-ish flex stick.

I also do think there's some level of "mental block" when it comes to using really whippy sticks. I mean, Ovechkin is WAY bigger, WAY stronger, and just generally puts WAY more force into his shots than I do, and he shoots best with 75 flex sticks, but with some of the whippiest sticks I've used it feels like they're too soft. I think when there's a bit more resistance I feel comfortable putting all my power into a shot, but when I feel a stick really bend a tonne I unconsciously take something off it, instead of leaning into it as hard as possible. I think on some level I need to feel that bit of resistance, that solid feel in my hands, to really shoot as hard as I can.


Last edited by ponder: 02-13-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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