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Old
02-13-2012, 01:06 PM
  #76
Tim Tebow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
We can always bet.. I said any of those 6 teams will make finals and you are saying what exactly?
What exactly would we bet? I am not saying any of those teams won't win the Cup and I am not saying the Flyers will win it.

What I am saying is you are being an over dramatic homer.

Like I pointed out with the Hawks. How are the Hawks in better shape then the Flyers?

Chicago Blackhawks
- Colder then the Flyers.
- Lower ranked offense.
- Lower ranked defense.
- Much worse Power Play.
- Much worse Penalty Kill.
- Lower in the standings.
- Riding an equally shallow defense riding 2 rookies and an old guy who is well out of his game.

Yet you can argue that this team is a cup favorite that should go for it and the Flyers should be sellers?

Do you understand how this makes no sense?

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02-13-2012, 01:14 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Never said anyone would trade these players for peanuts. If the Flyers can upgrade MAB and Gus (or even just one) that makes this team a lot better on defense. If they can also upgrade one of the forwards in a defensive sense (i.e. Rinaldo or Sestito) the Flyers would be that much better. I don't understand why everyone is so concerned with these draft picks. Once again, do you really think whoever the Flyers get, even with their first rounder, will be as good as a Grossman-type player and in enough time to actually play with this current team. I wouldn't bet on it, at least not when the alternative is getting the actual NHL player.
WTH is Sestito or RInaldo is going to do in playoffs? By the way have you seen Grossman play? I mean seriously. You think we are Grossman type of player away from serious contender?
It's beyond replacing MAB or Gus. Itís Carle, Coburn and Mezs and their inability to play solid hockey. Itís our goaltending not to mention. Not to mention inexperienced rookies and sucking on face-offs and up and down special teams..
I want to get younger, I want to move salary.
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Again, this is where I don't get it. Drafting players that will not impact this team this year (or even next year in all likelihood) and may not ever have an impact is somehow a better idea than getting guys that can step in and play now.
After all this time really? I guess it was not worth it to wait for Giroux? (maybe he will understand now? I doubt it)

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02-13-2012, 01:16 PM
  #78
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Among all names brought up Timonen would be the only one bringing back some really valuable assets (first round pick +).
What scares me is the fact that we would potentially have to replace Pronger and Timonen next year. Defensemen of that caliber don't grow on trees.

What can you get in return for Jagr? Considering his age, injury history (like 4? groin strains already this year) a third round pick or even less would be on the table. Who was the last forward being picked by the Flyers in the third round or later to make it to the NHL on a regular basis - J.Matsumoto, R. Potulny no value there.

Carle? Maybe a second rounder or a second tier prospect?
So maybe we lose Carle and pry away Grossman from DAL for the pick.

Does this really help us to improve for next season???

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02-13-2012, 01:24 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Among all names brought up Timonen would be the only one bringing back some really valuable assets (first round pick +).
What scares me is the fact that we would potentially have to replace Pronger and Timonen next year. Defensemen of that caliber don't grow on trees.

What can you get in return for Jagr? Considering his age, injury history (like 4? groin strains already this year) a third round pick or even less would be on the table. Who was the last forward being picked by the Flyers in the third round or later to make it to the NHL on a regular basis - J.Matsumoto, R. Potulny no value there.

Carle? Maybe a second rounder or a second tier prospect?
So maybe we lose Carle and pry away Grossman from DAL for the pick.

Does this really help us to improve for next season???

In our pipe dream we get Suter this offseason, and Weber next!

It's funny how bad we want them. Type Shea Weber, or Ryan Suter in google, and the first thing after their name is Flyers.

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02-13-2012, 01:25 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Among all names brought up Timonen would be the only one bringing back some really valuable assets (first round pick +).
What scares me is the fact that we would potentially have to replace Pronger and Timonen next year. Defensemen of that caliber don't grow on trees.

What can you get in return for Jagr? Considering his age, injury history (like 4? groin strains already this year) a third round pick or even less would be on the table. Who was the last forward being picked by the Flyers in the third round or later to make it to the NHL on a regular basis - J.Matsumoto, R. Potulny no value there.

Carle? Maybe a second rounder or a second tier prospect?
So maybe we lose Carle and pry away Grossman from DAL for the pick.

Does this really help us to improve for next season???
replacing Carle with Grossman certainly does

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02-13-2012, 01:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
What exactly would we bet? I am not saying any of those teams won't win the Cup and I am not saying the Flyers will win it.

What I am saying is you are being an over dramatic homer.

Like I pointed out with the Hawks. How are the Hawks in better shape then the Flyers?

Chicago Blackhawks
- Colder then the Flyers.
- Lower ranked offense.
- Lower ranked defense.
- Much worse Power Play.
- Much worse Penalty Kill.
- Lower in the standings.
- Riding an equally shallow defense riding 2 rookies and an old guy who is well out of his game.

Yet you can argue that this team is a cup favorite that should go for it and the Flyers should be sellers?

Do you understand how this makes no sense?
I already told you.. Out of 6 teams I mentioned two will make finals. That is my bet.

Lower this higher that, %, colder, hotter.. Please.. I do not give a ****.

Hawks are very good playoff team they can put it together down the stretch. That's how. So they have some weak goaltending lately.. Big deal. Scotty will make the right decision.

Regular season means **** for the most part and Hawks have the same team. We don't.

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02-13-2012, 01:25 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
WTH is Sestito or RInaldo is going to do in playoffs? By the way have you seen Grossman play? I mean seriously. You think we are Grossman type of player away from serious contender?
I was saying we need to upgrade Rinaldo or Sestito...

As far as Grossman goes, he is better than MAB and Gus. That is what we need. Better players.

Quote:
It's beyond replacing MAB or Gus. It’s Carle, Coburn and Mezs and their inability to play solid hockey. It’s our goaltending not to mention. Not to mention inexperienced rookies and sucking on face-offs and up and down special teams.
Carle, Coburn, and Mez are not problems. They aren't winning the Norris Trophy, but they are solid defenders. As far as the rookies go, that is why I said we should also get a veteran winger to replace one of them. Preferably one with some defensive chops.

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I want to get younger, I want to move salary.
Can't get much younger than this team is now. As far as moving salary, that is a never ending story. If we deal some big contracts, will get another big contract that people will be crying about in two years.

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After all this time really? I guess it was not worth it to wait for Giroux? (maybe he will understand now? I doubt it)
That isn't what I said. In this case the team is close to a Cup. In two or three years (when these draft picks are ready) they may not be. I know that they still might be, but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. I'd rather improve this team now when I can see them competing for home-ice in the playoffs, than get some picks and hope in a couple years when (IF) the picks are ready to contribute the rest of the team is still in this position.

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02-13-2012, 01:27 PM
  #83
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Regardless of how this year plays out, Im excited for the next couple of years. That is why I dont to trade any of young players away for a 4/5 defenseman at the deadline. This defensive core seems to lack toughness, and I dont see one guy coming in and changing that. Hopefully in the offseason they can overhaul the defense.

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02-13-2012, 01:29 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
I already told you.. Out of 6 teams I mentioned two will make finals. That is my bet.

Lower this higher that, %, colder, hotter.. Please.. I do not give a ****.

Hawks are very good playoff team they can put it together down the stretch. That's how. So they have some weak goaltending lately.. Big deal. Scotty will make the right decision.

Regular season means **** for the most part and Hawks have the same team. We don't.
the same team that they won the cup with?

no they cerainly do not. Do you not remember their fire sale during the summer immediately following their cup win?

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02-13-2012, 01:35 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I was saying we need to upgrade Rinaldo or Sestito...
As far as Grossman goes, he is better than MAB and Gus. That is what we need. Better players.
Most players are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Carle, Coburn, and Mez are not problems. They aren't winning the Norris Trophy, but they are solid defenders. As far as the rookies go, that is why I said we should also get a veteran winger to replace one of them. Preferably one with some defensive chops.
Really? Why the **** was Timonen screaming after NYR games. Carle, Coburn and Mez are not solid, they are known for playing solid D at times. In fact all 3 have the same thing in common. All 3 are famous for making dumb play. Timonen cannot cover Coburn shortcomings.
So you saying that Carle, Coburn, and Mez are not problems and Gus and MAB are decent.. right?
So it is not just adding Grossman, it is also a winger? Right? Like who and for how much? So let’s say we get what you want that will bring us where? Just curious?

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02-13-2012, 01:37 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
the same team that they won the cup with?

no they cerainly do not. Do you not remember their fire sale during the summer immediately following their cup win?
same tema that went against Nucks last season and almost killed them in a very tough series. Probably the best playoff round of last year.

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02-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #87
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The only time the Flyers should be a seller is depending on what kind of offers they get for Timonen and Carle. If they get an offer that they can't refuse, then sell. Of course, they'll need to get defensemen back in order to fit into the lineup to complete the season.

Like I said in another post, now isn't the time to blow things up and rebuild the D. Holmgren needs to wait until the off season to really retool the defense. If Holmgren decides to blow things up now, people have to prepare for the reality that the team probably won't qualify for the playoffs. And as things stand right now, I think we can safely say that if they qualify for the playoffs, that in itself is a victory when you consider the upheaval this franchise went through in the off season.

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02-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Most players are.
Exactly why we should make a trade...

Quote:
Really? Why the **** was Timonen screaming after NYR games. Carle, Coburn and Mez are not solid, they are known for playing solid D at times. In fact all 3 have the same thing in common. All 3 are famous for making dumb play. Timonen cannot cover Coburn shortcomings. So you saying that Carle, Coburn, and Mez are not problems and Gus and MAB are decent.. right?
What? No I am clearly saying MAB and Gus are not good and thus we get rid of them. I don't think the first three are problems. And if you think Coburn, Mez, and Carle are not solid defenders, I don't know what to tell you.

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So it is not just adding Grossman, it is also a winger? Right? Like who and for how much?
Haha. I don't know. I'm not a GM. I want the Flyers to get Rutuu. I don't know if he's available or what his price will be. I think I have made it pretty clear that I am not trying to make a bad trade. If they can upgrade their players for an affordable price you do it. I think Homer can get at least one defender and one winger without trading any key pieces of this team. As I've said, he won't get Weber or Suter, but a guy like Grossman and maybe Rutuu should be attainable (be it for picks or prospects).

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So letís say we get what you want that will bring us where? Just curious?
Closer than we are now. I'd rather be closer this year than hope in two years we are.

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02-13-2012, 01:47 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
same tema that went against Nucks last season and almost killed them in a very tough series. Probably the best playoff round of last year.
but in the end they didnt beat them. The Only reason it went 7 was because CHI was just a bad match-up for them.

so whats your point?

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02-13-2012, 01:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
but in the end they didnt beat them. The Only reason it went 7 was because CHI was just a bad match-up for them.

so whats your point?
Point was, Hawks have every tool to make it to finals unlike Flyers.

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02-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Exactly why we should make a trade...
What? No I am clearly saying MAB and Gus are not good and thus we get rid of them. I don't think the first three are problems. And if you think Coburn, Mez, and Carle are not solid defenders, I don't know what to tell you.
So basically you think we will have a decent chance with Grossman instead of one of Gus or MAB? Right?

Timonen Coburn
Carle Grossman
Mesz Bourdon

and that will take us? pass 1st round? 2nd round? 3rd round SC finals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. I don't know. I'm not a GM. I want the Flyers to get Rutuu. I don't know if he's available or what his price will be. I think I have made it pretty clear that I am not trying to make a bad trade. If they can upgrade their players for an affordable price you do it. I think Homer can get at least one defender and one winger without trading any key pieces of this team. As I've said, he won't get Weber or Suter, but a guy like Grossman and maybe Rutuu should be attainable (be it for picks or prospects).
You want Ruutu? Everyone wants Ruutu. I thought you said that we are doing fine at forward. You want to trade our 1st round pick for Ruutu? Even know we need D. I thought you said that we were fine at scoring?

I do not understand..

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02-13-2012, 02:09 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
So basically you think we will have a decent chance with Grossman instead of one of Gus or MAB? Right?

Timonen Coburn
Carle Grossman
Mesz Bourdon

and that will take us? pass 1st round? 2nd round? 3rd round SC finals?

You want Ruutu? Everyone wants Ruutu. I thought you said that we are doing fine at forward. You want to trade our 1st round pick for Ruutu? Even know we need D. I thought you said that we were fine at scoring?

I do not understand..
I think this guys does too much of the "drink(ing)" part of his nick

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02-13-2012, 02:13 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The only time the Flyers should be a seller is depending on what kind of offers they get for Timonen and Carle. If they get an offer that they can't refuse, then sell. Of course, they'll need to get defensemen back in order to fit into the lineup to complete the season.
I bet if Homer makes Timonen available we are going to get offers we can not refuse. Timonen is a monster, is having a monster year and might/will be a key contributer in SC run for any team.

Toronto Maple Leafs traded Tomas Kaberle to the Boston Bruins for Joe Colborne, a first-round draft pick in 2011 and a conditional draft pick in 2012.

Timonen may bring more, a lot more. We try to go after Suter in summer. Plus picks and prospects.

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02-13-2012, 02:17 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
So basically you think we will have a decent chance with Grossman instead of one of Gus or MAB? Right?

Timonen Coburn
Carle Grossman
Mesz Bourdon

and that will take us? pass 1st round? 2nd round? 3rd round SC finals?
That will get us further than we're getting now.

Quote:
You want Ruutu? Everyone wants Ruutu. I thought you said that we are doing fine at forward. You want to trade our 1st round pick for Ruutu? Even know we need D. I thought you said that we were fine at scoring?

I do not understand..
We are doing fine at forward, but as you pointed out, we are relying on a lot of rookies and other forwards that don't have the grit that a guy like Rutuu has. Throw him in the line up and I think this team is very dangerous.

Hartnell-G-Jagr
JvR-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Rutuu
Talbot-Couturier-Read

Timonen-Coburn
Carle-Grossman
Mesz-Bourdon

Bryz
Bob

That to me looks like a Cup contender. Certainly better than they are now.

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02-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That will get us further than we're getting now.



We are doing fine at forward, but as you pointed out, we are relying on a lot of rookies and other forwards that don't have the grit that a guy like Rutuu has. Throw him in the line up and I think this team is very dangerous.

Hartnell-G-Jagr
JvR-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Rutuu
Talbot-Couturier-Read

Timonen-Coburn
Carle-Grossman
Mesz-Bourdon

Bryz
Bob

That to me looks like a Cup contender. Certainly better than they are now.
So we will trade 1st round pick for Ruutu. imo Ruutu is worth 1st round pick.
and at least 2nd round pick for Grossman? Right?

and you are comfy with D?

So what will we do if Grossman asks for 2.5-3M and Ruutu asks for 4.5M?
How do we replace Carle? Not that I want to keep Carle but next year who is going to take his place?

What will be the state of our prospects picks and farm team when we do not win SC. Dude, we will NOT win SC with that D. Any legit team will destroy Carle and Grossman paring and yes, you are right we will get better around april time with both trades but at what price!

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02-13-2012, 02:45 PM
  #96
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Moves close to or right at the tradeline are to put a team over the edge by adding minor pieces. Also rental players.

This teams needs more than one or two depth players!
It makes no sense to give up first or second round picks for UFAs if you are not convinced you can possible compete with the big boys now. Next year those picks are gone as well as the deadline additions and the real problem has not been addressed.

If Homer can get H.Gill - B. Allen - N.Grossman for lower picks/prospect, you go for it. Else staying pat is most usefull.

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02-13-2012, 02:56 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
So we will trade 1st round pick for Ruutu. imo Ruutu is worth 1st round pick.
and at least 2nd round pick for Grossman? Right?
That sounds about right.

Quote:
and you are comfy with D?
Yes.

Quote:
So what will we do if Grossman asks for 2.5-3M and Ruutu asks for 4.5M?
How do we replace Carle? Not that I want to keep Carle but next year who is going to take his place? What will be the state of our prospects picks and farm team when we do not win SC. Dude, we will NOT win SC with that D. Any legit team will destroy Carle and Grossman paring and yes, you are right we will get better around april time with both trades but at what price!
Ugh. I give up. You're right. Let's stand pat. They have no chance now and won't even if they make moves. I'd rather plan for the future too and put our hopes into players that may never step foot on NHL ice.

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02-13-2012, 03:12 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
I already told you.. Out of 6 teams I mentioned two will make finals. That is my bet.

Lower this higher that, %, colder, hotter.. Please.. I do not give a ****.

Hawks are very good playoff team they can put it together down the stretch. That's how. So they have some weak goaltending lately.. Big deal. Scotty will make the right decision.

Regular season means **** for the most part and Hawks have the same team. We don't.
It sounds like you live in Narnia.

So now you are jumping on the regular season doesn't matter train, ironically as you trash the Flyers for what they are doing in the regular season lol.

Yeah the Hawks are the same team. They have only been hemorrhaging star and key players every year since they won the cup because of cap issues. Only dropped from the #6 defense to the #13 defense and now the #27 defense. But you are probably right, they may have different players and are far less talented but that's definitely the same old Blackhawks (believe it or not the Hawks "team" goes deeper then the starting line up)

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02-13-2012, 03:43 PM
  #99
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The Flyers are in 4th and people here want to sell? Are we the Oilers now?

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02-13-2012, 04:23 PM
  #100
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The Flyers are in fourth because of their offense. Their defense has been consistently bad. They have no elite defenseman. Chicago, in contrast, has a Duncan Keith and Seabrook. The Flyers are not a cup contender. They lack the defense or goaltending. They cannot win a best of 7 against an elite team, such as the Rangers or Boston.

The Flyers could get a ton for Jagr. He is a much better player than Ruutu or Hemsky. If the Flyers traded him and Carle to the Rangers they could get Krieder, Erixon and a pick.

They could trade Timmo and get a huge return. They could also trade Coburn.

They have non-core assets. Let's face it: Carle and Coburn are not elite defenseman. The team needs to trade their veterans and mediocore defenseman and try to rebuild their defense. They are not winning the cup. I would not be surprised if they exited in the first round. Their defense is that bad.

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