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Old
02-13-2012, 10:11 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I wouldn't give Hartnell more than 3 years. He is having a great season, but it might also be getting to the point where you wonder about him breaking down.
He's 29 years old? I would give him 5 if it brought the cap number down big time. I don't even know what he would be looking for on a new contract though.

Edit: I forgot he will be 30 next year when he is a UFA. I wouldn't go any more then 4 years so im almost in the same boat with ya.

Double Edited: He will be 31 when he is an UFA. 3 years is what I would give him to. Didn't know he was an April birthday. I learned something today!

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02-13-2012, 02:14 PM
  #77
Reaper1097
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You forgot to add "get rid of the salary cap" because there is no way that team is fitting under the cap. Parise is making $6 million and is going to get some kind of raise. Suter will be above $5 million (probably more than $6 or $7 million). Voracek is due for a raise, probably will get at least another million, if not more. While that team would be pretty damned good, it's not going to fit under the cap.
Actually, I took the cap into consideration and ideally moving briere to clear a ton of cap space would make this work rather easily. It would only be tough for one season as timonen and hartnell are UFA after next season or Pronger stays on LTIR and his money doesnt count against cap. But if none of the above happens, a few things needs to go the flyers way for this scenerio to work.

1) Keep Suter and Parise cap hit to 6.00 mil max
2) Buyout Shelley and Lilja
3) Resign Voracek to 3.0 mil cap hit max
4) Rookies fail to achieve all "bonuses"
5) Cap limit raises to at least 67.0 mil

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02-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Actually, I took the cap into consideration and ideally moving briere to clear a ton of cap space would make this work rather easily. It would only be tough for one season as timonen and hartnell are UFA after next season or Pronger stays on LTIR and his money doesnt count against cap. But if none of the above happens, a few things needs to go the flyers way for this scenerio to work.

1) Keep Suter and Parise cap hit to 6.00 mil max
2) Buyout Shelley and Lilja
3) Resign Voracek to 3.0 mil cap hit max
4) Rookies fail to achieve all "bonuses"
5) Cap limit raises to at least 67.0 mil
1) good luck
2) no point in buying out Shelley, just waive him. No reason to buy out Lilja, he's fine as a 6th/7th defenseman
3) will take more than that, probably $3.5m
4) can't really stop this all the time
5) probably won't go up that much

nice fantasy world though

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:19 PM
  #79
Swiper the Fox
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why are so many people wanting to get rid of jagr
he's still a dominate player
gets respect from opposition
damn near impossible to get a puck away from him along the boards
ability to hold on to puck long enought to get it to an open player is unbeatable
giroux and all the other rookies/newbies can and/is still learing much from this guy
he is one of those players you just keep
he's more effective , then defective

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:23 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Actually, I took the cap into consideration and ideally moving briere to clear a ton of cap space would make this work rather easily. It would only be tough for one season as timonen and hartnell are UFA after next season or Pronger stays on LTIR and his money doesnt count against cap. But if none of the above happens, a few things needs to go the flyers way for this scenerio to work.

1) Keep Suter and Parise cap hit to 6.00 mil max
2) Buyout Shelley and Lilja
3) Resign Voracek to 3.0 mil cap hit max
4) Rookies fail to achieve all "bonuses"
5) Cap limit raises to at least 67.0 mil
1. I think Suter will sign for around 6.4-6.8 million. he probably won't sign under 6 IMO
2. Waive Shelley, no need for buyout. Lilja is a good 7th dman. He is there for a fill in when called upon and is signed very cheap.
3.Voracek I say cost anywhere between 3.2-3.8 IMO. Depends on the years I think
4. There might be the bonus cushion next year with the new CBA. This year there is no bonus cushion though so no problem with our rookies over acheiving or performing well.
5. I actually think it will raise this much maybe even a little more. Bettman has stated that they are gonna see better revenue records then last year. At least that's what I heard. It all depends on the new CBA though. That's the big ?.

I don't think Parise is on our radar.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Actually, I took the cap into consideration and ideally moving briere to clear a ton of cap space would make this work rather easily. It would only be tough for one season as timonen and hartnell are UFA after next season or Pronger stays on LTIR and his money doesnt count against cap. But if none of the above happens, a few things needs to go the flyers way for this scenerio to work.

1) Keep Suter and Parise cap hit to 6.00 mil max
2) Buyout Shelley and Lilja
3) Resign Voracek to 3.0 mil cap hit max
4) Rookies fail to achieve all "bonuses"
5) Cap limit raises to at least 67.0 mil
There's no reason to buyout Shelley; just waive him. And buying out Lilja only saves 466k on the cap next year.

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02-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #82
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I think Parise should be on our radar, obviously it goes unsaid defense is our biggest need and a desperate need at that, but outside of our young centers i don't believe any of our wingers have top line potential. Someone could easily surprise us but Parise-Giroux would be a great great great threat to build around. I believe they would compliment each other very well.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by boodangleroo28 View Post
I think Parise should be on our radar, obviously it goes unsaid defense is our biggest need and a desperate need at that, but outside of our young centers i don't believe any of our wingers have top line potential. Someone could easily surprise us but Parise-Giroux would be a great great great threat to build around. I believe they would compliment each other very well.
If we were to sign Parise to a big deal in the offseason, we most definitely will lose one or even more than one of our young players we just acquired this offseason. All these players will be needing raises and only Hartnell and Briere are coming off the books in that time. Also Schenn, Couts, and Giroux will all need raises by that point. If Giroux becomes a constant 80-90 point player, he will demand a ton of money.

IMO signing Parise to a big deal now hurts our chances of keeping this good young core of players together for the long run. JVR has top line potential and also Voracek, we forget they are only 22 years old. Plenty of time still to hit their prime and become 1st line material. Maybe both will next year! Giroux became a 1st line center when he was 23?

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:53 PM
  #84
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Something like this:
1. Let Carle walk
2. Trade Meszaros for pick/prospect at draft
3. Waive Shelley
4. Sign Suter for 8 years 50 million
5. Re-sign Voracek to cap friendly deal (3 or less). If he wants more than 3, trade and re-sign Jagr for 3.
6. Trade for Hal Gill at the deadline and re-sign for another year to replace Meszaros

All money would go to defense first. If Pronger is not coming back next year, keep Meszaros and pair with Suter.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Ryan Suter ($6.250m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Hal Gill ($2.250m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

NOTE: I would consider Giroux, Schenn, Timonen, Couturier, Simmonds, Coburn, Talbot as untouchables. Read would require a major deal to trade. The rest are available for the right price. JVR I would trade in a new york minute, but sadly, I doubt he will get the return required.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:57 PM
  #85
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Love Parise, would hate to see the Flyers sign him.

The only way you keep Zach's cap hit at 6 million is if he is signed well into his 30's likely at least 8 years. This is a very long commitment especially for an undersized player who plays a hard physical game and is racking up mileage on his body.

Not to mention the long term cap situations and how he will handcuff us when it comes to deals with guys like Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds, Hartnell.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
If we were to sign Parise to a big deal in the offseason, we most definitely will lose one or even more than one of our young players we just acquired this offseason. All these players will be needing raises and only Hartnell and Briere are coming off the books in that time. Also Schenn, Couts, and Giroux will all need raises by that point. If Giroux becomes a constant 80-90 point player, he will demand a ton of money.

IMO signing Parise to a big deal now hurts our chances of keeping this good young core of players together for the long run. JVR has top line potential and also Voracek, we forget they are only 22 years old. Plenty of time still to hit their prime and become 1st line material. Maybe both will next year! Giroux became a 1st line center when he was 23?
And Timonen.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
And Timonen.
I didn't include him though because we are probably gonna spend a certain amount on a defense man to replace him with. Like a Ryan Suter or another big named d-man. I only took into account the forwards.

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02-13-2012, 03:39 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Actually, I took the cap into consideration and ideally moving briere to clear a ton of cap space would make this work rather easily. It would only be tough for one season as timonen and hartnell are UFA after next season or Pronger stays on LTIR and his money doesnt count against cap. But if none of the above happens, a few things needs to go the flyers way for this scenerio to work.

1) Keep Suter and Parise cap hit to 6.00 mil max
2) Buyout Shelley and Lilja
3) Resign Voracek to 3.0 mil cap hit max
4) Rookies fail to achieve all "bonuses"
5) Cap limit raises to at least 67.0 mil
You didn't take it into account though. In your post you included Briere on your lines. You also didn't have a 13th forward or 7th dman. Run your calculations again.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($0.300m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Matt Ford ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Ryan Suter ($6.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,843,373; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,156,627

That is with the cap at $67 million and your far too low salary projections (Parise is making $6 million now, he is getting a raise...). So I guess in your fantasy world where players sign for less than market value and the cap goes up another $2.6 million, then yes I suppose it is possible.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:46 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You didn't take it into account though. In your post you included Briere on your lines. You also didn't have a 13th forward or 7th dman. Run your calculations again.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($0.300m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Matt Ford ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Ryan Suter ($6.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,843,373; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,156,627

That is with the cap at $67 million and your far too low salary projections (Parise is making $6 million now, he is getting a raise...). So I guess in your fantasy world where players sign for less than market value and the cap goes up another $2.6 million, then yes I suppose it is possible.
Not disagreeing with your point, because I concur; but I don't think Parise necessarily gets more than 6. He'll get substantial years which could put him right around 6 again.

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02-13-2012, 03:49 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Not disagreeing with your point, because I concur; but I don't think Parise necessarily gets more than 6. He'll get substantial years which could put him right around 6 again.
He's gonna be the most sought after forward. I'm guessing between $6.5-$7 (regardless of years). Although I get what you are saying.

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02-13-2012, 03:51 PM
  #91
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Parise is likely going to get closer to 7 mil. I'm gonna guess 6.8.

I'm a Parise fan, but I'm really wary of his knee. He just missed an entire season because of that thing.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:06 PM
  #92
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I was looking at faceoff % and there is a couple of players that interest me.

Boyd Gordon
Jim Slater
Dominic Moore

All three could be 4th line centers and are cheap. All 1million or just a little over a million. Top 30 in face off % as well.

Grossman added via trade and Boyd Gordon would help this team out pretty well I think.

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02-13-2012, 04:28 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Swiper the Fox View Post
why are so many people wanting to get rid of jagr
he's still a dominate player
gets respect from opposition
damn near impossible to get a puck away from him along the boards
ability to hold on to puck long enought to get it to an open player is unbeatable
giroux and all the other rookies/newbies can and/is still learing much from this guy
he is one of those players you just keep
he's more effective , then defective
cause most people on these forums are impatient as hell. there's no ability to see 5 ft. in front of their faces. thank god these are only forums and not the acutual scouting/boardroom. I think we have great assets that are developing under laviolette nicely but their new and there's adversity to be had and dealt with and everybody associates this team with the one that lost in 2010 and its not. its all new and we did start over. jagr's intangibles and inflence on this team were a genius, calculated move by homer. I doubt he's here when we win the cup but he'll have had an insane amount to do with it when it happens. (jagr, not homey)

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02-13-2012, 05:15 PM
  #94
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Where this thread is going kind of hurts my brain...

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Old
02-13-2012, 05:18 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Something like this:
1. Let Carle walk
2. Trade Meszaros for pick/prospect at draft
3. Waive Shelley
4. Sign Suter for 8 years 50 million
5. Re-sign Voracek to cap friendly deal (3 or less). If he wants more than 3, trade and re-sign Jagr for 3.
6. Trade for Hal Gill at the deadline and re-sign for another year to replace Meszaros

All money would go to defense first. If Pronger is not coming back next year, keep Meszaros and pair with Suter.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Ryan Suter ($6.250m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Hal Gill ($2.250m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

NOTE: I would consider Giroux, Schenn, Timonen, Couturier, Simmonds, Coburn, Talbot as untouchables. Read would require a major deal to trade. The rest are available for the right price. JVR I would trade in a new york minute, but sadly, I doubt he will get the return required.
That's a big if, don't you think? That defense is still horrid if Pronger does not come back. Meszaros is not a top 2 d-man. He needs sheltered minutes, or else he is easily exposed. Timonen seems to be on the decline, and Coburn, well, he is not showing he is worth 4+ million a year. Hal Gill, by this time next year, will barely be able to skate. He's already slow as molasses, and he definitely will not be any quicker next year. I would agree they need to pursue Suter, as their #1 priority, but I'm not sure if that defense can be overhauled in only one year. They need the draft to do that.

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02-13-2012, 05:43 PM
  #96
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Giroux is the main building block for our team and is on a great contract.

1-fire the coaching staff. I never liked Lavy (other than half the season he started coaching on the Flyers, but I think that is more on the lines of you actually noticing a system he ran and Stevens you couldn't notice any system) and I can't stand him chewing his gum and acting like a pure ****** bag back there. He got lucky that he had a great set of defensive forwards when he got on this team to play in his system. Too bad half the players didn't get along with him and we lost Carter and Richards because of it.

2-hire a coach with a more equal style of being good on defense and offense. Someone that can mix up the lines and change up strategies for each game depending on the team you face.

3-since Lavy would be gone I believe our D's would then start to play a lot better because they won't have to skate all over the *** place and get exhausted then start making mistakes. So I would keep our D's the same and maybe try to trade for a big D like Gill. Gill would be great on this team if we didn't have Lavy's system, but with Lavy's system Gill would suck.

I would say that would be about all for right now. Our goals would go down a lot, but this team has a lot of good offensive forwards and will get a decent amount of goals. The trick is is that the team would be in better position to succeed on defense while not exhausting themselves in a high tempo offense and then being out of position constantly because of the system. Plus Bryz I am sure would get back in his stride with a better defensive style team.

Also if we still can't resign Carle because he wants too much money I would still hold onto him until after the season is over and then trade his rights for a draft pick. Carle is still our second best d-man behind Kimmo, though I wish he would learn how to not make those bone head passes.

PS this isn't for the off season, just for right now.

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Old
02-13-2012, 06:46 PM
  #97
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Honestly? If we are still looking like this near the deadline, I think what Homer will do is make some even trades. Maybe trade some guys out for other guys in the same position.

That being said, if we struggle more, I think some players that could get traded are

Jagr- a playoff team that needs a winger would trade a 1st or a late 1syt round prospect drafted back in 2009/2010. Agree
Carle- I think could fetch a first or a good/decent prospect and a 2nd. Agree
JVR- Yea, I know some people here are in love with him/ think he is a superstar powerforward in the future, but if a team offers a equal defensiveman around the same age for him (and has JVR's potenial) I'd think long and hard to make it.
I would move him. But it would have to be one hell of a deal.

It was also stated here before in a earlier post. But I would ask Kimmo and Danny if they would wave their NTC if they had the chance to go on a cup contender. With the picks/players we could add to this young team you have to be excited about the future and potential of this team.

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Old
02-13-2012, 07:24 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Giroux is the main building block for our team and is on a great contract.

1-fire the coaching staff. I never liked Lavy (other than half the season he started coaching on the Flyers, but I think that is more on the lines of you actually noticing a system he ran and Stevens you couldn't notice any system) and I can't stand him chewing his gum and acting like a pure ****** bag back there. He got lucky that he had a great set of defensive forwards when he got on this team to play in his system. Too bad half the players didn't get along with him and we lost Carter and Richards because of it.

2-hire a coach with a more equal style of being good on defense and offense. Someone that can mix up the lines and change up strategies for each game depending on the team you face.

3-since Lavy would be gone I believe our D's would then start to play a lot better because they won't have to skate all over the *** place and get exhausted then start making mistakes. So I would keep our D's the same and maybe try to trade for a big D like Gill. Gill would be great on this team if we didn't have Lavy's system, but with Lavy's system Gill would suck.

I would say that would be about all for right now. Our goals would go down a lot, but this team has a lot of good offensive forwards and will get a decent amount of goals. The trick is is that the team would be in better position to succeed on defense while not exhausting themselves in a high tempo offense and then being out of position constantly because of the system. Plus Bryz I am sure would get back in his stride with a better defensive style team.

Also if we still can't resign Carle because he wants too much money I would still hold onto him until after the season is over and then trade his rights for a draft pick. Carle is still our second best d-man behind Kimmo, though I wish he would learn how to not make those bone head passes.

PS this isn't for the off season, just for right now.
you might be right about makin a coaching change but who do you bring in? craig ramsey again? i like lavi but we definately need to make some kind of change personel wise, but i think besides switchin up the special teams or goalie coach we need to trade players. our team is solid but were playin alot of youth and because we are who we are there's an insanely high expectation and considering the amount of injuries and turnover we've experienced, its not realistic.

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02-13-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
you might be right about makin a coaching change but who do you bring in? craig ramsey again? i like lavi but we definately need to make some kind of change personel wise, but i think besides switchin up the special teams or goalie coach we need to trade players. our team is solid but were playin alot of youth and because we are who we are there's an insanely high expectation and considering the amount of injuries and turnover we've experienced, its not realistic.
I really couldn't tell you. I'd just have Homer go through a lot of interviews and watch a lot of tape and pick out who you think would be the best for this team.

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02-13-2012, 08:16 PM
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the insane deal for bryz will be the axe that chops holmgren (unless this team somehow goes a couple rounds in playoffs )

maybe hextall will be the next one pulling the strings in philly as GM
(that's be a good start )

:l)

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