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Old
02-13-2012, 05:24 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
The Flyers are in fourth because of their offense. Their defense has been consistently bad. They have no elite defenseman. Chicago, in contrast, has a Duncan Keith and Seabrook. The Flyers are not a cup contender. They lack the defense or goaltending. They cannot win a best of 7 against an elite team, such as the Rangers or Boston.

The Flyers could get a ton for Jagr. He is a much better player than Ruutu or Hemsky. If the Flyers traded him and Carle to the Rangers they could get Krieder, Erixon and a pick.

They could trade Timmo and get a huge return. They could also trade Coburn.

They have non-core assets. Let's face it: Carle and Coburn are not elite defenseman. The team needs to trade their veterans and mediocore defenseman and try to rebuild their defense. They are not winning the cup. I would not be surprised if they exited in the first round. Their defense is that bad.
Imagine what they could get for Giroux!!!

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02-13-2012, 05:31 PM
  #102
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IMO there are no trades that can be made by the deadline that would make us Cup contenders. There are far too many holes to fill. Any moves made should be to help us get better in the future. Trying to fix all the problems this team has before the offseason isn't going to be feasible, and might cost way too much. Our prospect pool is empty, let's not make that situation worse making desperate moves for a Cup run that is a long shot at best.

Looking to make small improvements is one thing, and possible...but becoming Cup contenders? That's a pipe dream.

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02-13-2012, 05:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
IMO there are no trades that can be made by the deadline that would make us Cup contenders. There are far too many holes to fill. Any moves made should be to help us get better in the future. Trying to fix all the problems this team has before the offseason isn't going to be feasible, and might cost way too much. Our prospect pool is empty, let's not make that situation worse making desperate moves for a Cup run that is a long shot at best.

Looking to make small improvements is one thing, and possible...but becoming Cup contenders? That's a pipe dream.
That's what she said

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02-13-2012, 05:36 PM
  #104
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That's what she said

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02-13-2012, 05:49 PM
  #105
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no is suggesting they trade Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, JVR etc..

But why not trade Timmo? Why not trade Jagr? Why not trade Carle? Why not trade Coburn?

None of these players represent the future core of the team. If we could turn these into quality prospects, such as Krieder, Erixon, Nyquist and picks, and use those prospects to pry away Voynov from LA and Orlov from Washington we would have a young core of top quality defensive prospects this organization desperately needs. All it requires is facing reality: this team is not going far this year. Let's face reality, make the necessary trades. The team has the pieces to get very good defensive prospects.

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02-13-2012, 05:57 PM
  #106
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I know things aren't looking great right now but we are still one of the better teams in a weak conference even if we aren't currently in the same class as the Rangers, Bruins, or healthy Penguins. This is still the NHL playoffs, not the NBA. Maybe Bryz gets hot and a couple lucky bounces swing a close game or two and we could find ourselves in a real playoff run. Stranger things have happened. And if we do get hot at the end of the season and get a little lucky during the playoffs, we are going to regret it if we had decided not to get that extra 3rd pairing guy just because we thought we didn't have a chance.

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Old
02-13-2012, 05:57 PM
  #107
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We don't need a trade guys, I already figured out how we're going to win the Stanley cup this year.

1) Carolina HAS to make the Playoffs and face Boston...that's a MUST.

The seeding has to look like this:
- New York (1)
- Boston (2)
- Florida (3)
- Philadelphia (4)
- Pittsburgh (5)
- New Jersey (6)
- Carolina (7)
- Toronto (8)

Round 1
2) Carolina defeats Boston in a four game sweep and moves on.
3) Toronto Faces New York and wins all the games at MSG (they own them there) in a 7 game series to advance.
4) We defeat Pittsburgh in 5...Malkin left game 1 with a virus and did not return in the series.
5) Florida knocks off the Devils in 6

Round 2
6) We face Carolina and SWEEP them to move on to the Conference Finals
7) Florida defeats Toronto in 5 games

Round 3
8) It's against Florida...of course we win this series *****es...

Round 4 (FINALS!!)
9) The Minnesota Wild get the same luck that we had in their Conference and move on to face the Flyers in the Finals.
Unfortunately for them, their luck runs out and they're forced to watch the Flyers parade the Cup down Broad St.


The End

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02-13-2012, 05:59 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I know things aren't looking great right now but we are still one of the better teams in a weak conference even if we aren't currently in the same class as the Rangers, Bruins, or healthy Penguins. This is still the NHL playoffs, not the NBA. Maybe Bryz gets hot and a couple lucky bounces swing a close game or two and we could find ourselves in a real playoff run. Stranger things have happened. And if we do get hot at the end of the season and get a little lucky during the playoffs, we are going to regret it if we had decided not to get that extra 3rd pairing guy just because we thought we didn't have a chance.
I wouldn't call our confrence weak, and I would call our division the best in the NHL.

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02-13-2012, 06:00 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
no is suggesting they trade Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, JVR etc..

But why not trade Timmo? Why not trade Jagr? Why not trade Carle? Why not trade Coburn?

None of these players represent the future core of the team. If we could turn these into quality prospects, such as Krieder, Erixon, Nyquist and picks, and use those prospects to pry away Voynov from LA and Orlov from Washington we would have a young core of top quality defensive prospects this organization desperately needs. All it requires is facing reality: this team is not going far this year. Let's face reality, make the necessary trades. The team has the pieces to get very good defensive prospects.
While Carle and Jagr aren't the future of this team, Timonen and Coburn certainly are. Timonen has another year left and is still one of the best defenders in the league. If this team was not in the playoff hunt, ok get rid of him. But he is the anchor of the defense. Coburn is in his mid-20s and is a top 4 defender on any team. Carle I don't really care if they trade as long as they get a defender to replace him on top of what they should be getting to replace one of MAB or Gus. I don't care if they get it in a deal for Carle or in a deal for something else, but you can't get rid of Carle without replacing him. Jagr should simply not be going anywhere. This team is fighting for home ice in the playoffs, not looking to get a lottery pick. Come on, people. When did Philly fans become such *******?

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02-13-2012, 06:01 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drownedsailors View Post
We don't need a trade guys, I already figured out how we're going to win the Stanley cup this year.

1) Carolina HAS to make the Playoffs and face Boston...that's a MUST.

The seeding has to look like this:
- New York (1)
- Boston (2)
- Florida (3)
- Philadelphia (4)
- Pittsburgh (5)
- New Jersey (6)
- Carolina (7)
- Toronto (8)

Round 1
2) Carolina defeats Boston in a four game sweep and moves on.
3) Toronto Faces New York and wins all the games at MSG (they own them there) in a 7 game series to advance.
4) We defeat Pittsburgh in 5...Malkin left game 1 with a virus and did not return in the series.
5) Florida knocks off the Devils in 6

Round 2
6) We face Carolina and SWEEP them to move on to the Conference Finals
7) Florida defeats Toronto in 5 games

Round 3
8) It's against Florida...of course we win this series *****es...

Round 4 (FINALS!!)
9) The Minnesota Wild get the same luck that we had in their Conference and move on to face the Flyers in the Finals.
Unfortunately for them, their luck runs out and they're forced to watch the Flyers parade the Cup down Broad St.


The End
Book it.

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Old
02-13-2012, 06:06 PM
  #111
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Yeah. I'm not sure about trading Timonen unless we immediately replace him. I'm not sure that's feasible or possible.

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02-13-2012, 06:09 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I wouldn't call our confrence weak, and I would call our division the best in the NHL.
I would call it top heavy at best. And the Central is the best division.

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Old
02-13-2012, 07:14 PM
  #113
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This thread makes my head hurt. When they start slipping out of 4th place and in the lower places/out, then I want to sell. Who knows what happens in the playoffs? I at least want to give it a fighting chance and see it play out

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02-13-2012, 07:37 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
I bet if Homer makes Timonen available we are going to get offers we can not refuse. Timonen is a monster, is having a monster year and might/will be a key contributer in SC run for any team.

Toronto Maple Leafs traded Tomas Kaberle to the Boston Bruins for Joe Colborne, a first-round draft pick in 2011 and a conditional draft pick in 2012.

Timonen may bring more, a lot more. We try to go after Suter in summer. Plus picks and prospects.
The thing with Timonen is that if Holmgren does decide to move him, who has the salary cap space available for him? I know for certain Boston would and I think Chicago has the room as well. Detroit has the room too.

I'm not sure if Boston would be willing to give up a ransom for Timonen, but Chicago and Detroit just might, especially if they believe acquiring a guy like Timonen would put them over the top. From the Blackhawks, at the very least, I'd want at least Niklas Hjalmarsson and Dylan Olsen. From Detroit, I'd want Jakub Kindl and Teemu Pulkkinen. If Boston did get involved, I'd have no problems if the Flyers could find a way to land Tukka Rask


Last edited by BobbyClarkeFan16: 02-14-2012 at 07:35 AM.
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02-13-2012, 07:41 PM
  #115
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New to posting on this board but I cant even read thru all these post without making my point. What is the Flyers goal? To win the stanley cup or build up a great farm team and develop our own defenseman? To draft and develop defenseman takes what on average 3 years. This is the Philly Flyers we dont develop dmen well have other teams do that for us: Pronger, Timmonen, Carle, Mez, Coburn going into this season that was our top 5 that most of us where happy with. I dont care about draft picks, prospects, or rookies. People that complain about our lack of draft picks the last few years, look at our core right now of young players Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, Read, JVR, Simmonds, Vorachek i think where good. Every year I want one thing and thats the cup and thats what the Flyers strive for. Anything can happen once the playoffs start. You have to be in it to win it. About the Rags and Bruins are better then us we might not have to go thru them. 3rd in the conference in points with our current shaky defense and the Bryz goalies issues. What happens if Bryz gets his head off of the universe and plays great down the stretch run. And anyone can point out there are alot of ifs but I cant believe my fellow fans want to pack this season in and go for it next year. F That, what if Giroux, Couturier, and Hartnell all get hurt next year then that season will be over too I guess. We are the Philly F'in Flyers and we will be buyers!!!

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:47 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The thing with Timonen is that if Holmgren does decide to move him, who has the salary cap space available for him? I know for certain Boston would and I think Chicago has the room as well. Detroit has the room too.
Chicago has room and decent prospects, Wings have room I do not lke their prospect pool, Boston you know they would love to repeat, SJ (not sure if they need more D). Thats 4 teams, Canucks can use d-men but they do not have space if they move Ballard they are in it. I bet NY Rangers will call too.

For a player like that Flyers will get a huge return. Especially with market so thin.

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02-14-2012, 03:35 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briererocks View Post
no is suggesting they trade Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, JVR etc..

But why not trade Timmo? Why not trade Jagr? Why not trade Carle? Why not trade Coburn?


None of these players represent the future core of the team. If we could turn these into quality prospects, such as Krieder, Erixon, Nyquist and picks, and use those prospects to pry away Voynov from LA and Orlov from Washington we would have a young core of top quality defensive prospects this organization desperately needs. All it requires is facing reality: this team is not going far this year. Let's face reality, make the necessary trades. The team has the pieces to get very good defensive prospects.
Because you need the right balance between young talent and experience + leadership to even make it past the first round of the playoffs.

What you are proposing is a full-rebuild, which is a viable way of handling the situation. But it also means that we won't have a shot at the cup for the next 3-4 years until those prospects reach a certain level of play and experience.
Just look at the Edmonton Oilers...

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Old
02-16-2012, 10:53 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
The Flyers are in 4th and people here want to sell? Are we the Oilers now?
Flyers can be 6th a week from now even less. If our D or goaltending won't improve we can be at 7.

I doubt we will drop as low as 8 unless some major disaster strikes.

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02-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #119
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In my opinion, there is only 1 player with whom Holmgren would be a seller: Carle. He is neither a key cog in this team's future, based on the anticipated raise his agent will be seeking as a UFA, nor a stalwart contributor on defense. As well, the recent contract signings have reduced the number of available Dmen at both the trade deadline and July 1, so Carle's value would arguably be pretty good. If Holmgren can make hay in dealing Carle and then swinging a minor deal for a stopgap Dman to and through the playoffs, I'd be very much in favour.

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02-16-2012, 03:06 PM
  #120
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In my opinion, there is only 1 player with whom Holmgren would be a seller: Carle. He is neither a key cog in this team's future, based on the anticipated raise his agent will be seeking as a UFA, nor a stalwart contributor on defense. As well, the recent contract signings have reduced the number of available Dmen at both the trade deadline and July 1, so Carle's value would arguably be pretty good. If Holmgren can make hay in dealing Carle and then swinging a minor deal for a stopgap Dman to and through the playoffs, I'd be very much in favour.
well, the Flyers already need a bottom pairing defenseman, so if they move Carle, they would need 2

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02-16-2012, 03:09 PM
  #121
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well, the Flyers already need a bottom pairing defenseman, so if they move Carle, they would need 2
...to at least stay competitive this year

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02-16-2012, 03:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I would call it top heavy at best. And the Central is the best division.
With the worst team in the league and the Blackhawks tailspinning, I'm not sure. And the Blues needed the Hitchcock treatment this year to be saved.

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02-16-2012, 04:18 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
In my opinion, there is only 1 player with whom Holmgren would be a seller: Carle. He is neither a key cog in this team's future, based on the anticipated raise his agent will be seeking as a UFA, nor a stalwart contributor on defense. As well, the recent contract signings have reduced the number of available Dmen at both the trade deadline and July 1, so Carle's value would arguably be pretty good. If Holmgren can make hay in dealing Carle and then swinging a minor deal for a stopgap Dman to and through the playoffs, I'd be very much in favour.
I suck at trade proposals, but I've been thinking about what we could possibly do with Carle for a while. The problem for me is that, if we do trade him we will need to replace him as well. Unless we're giving up on this season, something I highly doubt we will do.

How about these trades though, are they reasonable at all? Apart from the fact that it would be very unlikely that we'd overhaul the defense like this around the trade deadline...

Carle to the Flames for Hannan
3rd rounder+Lauridsen to the Lightninigs for Kubina
3rd rounder+Noebels to the Jets for Oduya

We swap an upcoming UFA defender with the Flames, they could use someone to work on their PP if they really are trying to make the playoffs this year. Yeah, yeah... Carle and the PP, and all that, but he might be better suited for the Flames version of it. Kubina and Oduya are fairly solid ds, though not spectacular.

Timonen-Oduya
Meszaros-Kubina
Coburn-Hannan

I think this would work cap-wise, but I'm not entirely sure. Bourdon and Gustafsson are sent down to the Phantoms.

I split up Timonen-Coburn, because I think Coburn-Hannan could be a really solid shutdown pairing. Coburn's skating should make up for Hannan's lack of speed. Maybe Coburn could even find some offensive touch again if he's the guy following up on the rush a bit more than he does when he's paired with Timonen.

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02-16-2012, 05:04 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drownedsailors View Post
We don't need a trade guys, I already figured out how we're going to win the Stanley cup this year.

1) Carolina HAS to make the Playoffs and face Boston...that's a MUST.

The seeding has to look like this:
- New York (1)
- Boston (2)
- Florida (3)
- Philadelphia (4)
- Pittsburgh (5)
- New Jersey (6)
- Carolina (7)
- Toronto (8)

Round 1
2) Carolina defeats Boston in a four game sweep and moves on.
3) Toronto Faces New York and wins all the games at MSG (they own them there) in a 7 game series to advance.
4) We defeat Pittsburgh in 5...Malkin left game 1 with a virus and did not return in the series.
5) Florida knocks off the Devils in 6

Round 2
6) We face Carolina and SWEEP them to move on to the Conference Finals
7) Florida defeats Toronto in 5 games

Round 3
8) It's against Florida...of course we win this series *****es...

Round 4 (FINALS!!)
9) The Minnesota Wild get the same luck that we had in their Conference and move on to face the Flyers in the Finals.
Unfortunately for them, their luck runs out and they're forced to watch the Flyers parade the Cup down Broad St.


The End
Almost worked 2 years ago.

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