Holy crap some of you guys in this thread are so dumb and not getting the meaning of the OP. The OP is saying one player has more more fighting majors than our entire team!! And it shows our team is soft and we do not stick up for each other. If you think there has not been atleast a dozen times where we had to stick up for each other and we did not then your a dummy who does not understand hockey. No one is talking about having a goon but a better balance of team toughness. God some of you guys are such little girls and are afraid of physical hockey on the leafs and it makes me sick. We need more team toughness, speed only takes you so far and then you need some grit.
And for the morons who think you don't need to fight check this out. Top teams in fighting compared to the bottom teams.
1 New York Rangers 46
2 Boston Bruins42
3 Philadelphia Flyers 42
4 Columbus Blue Jackets39
5 Ottawa Senators 37
6 Vancouver Canucks 33
7 Anaheim Ducks 29
8 New Jersey Devils 28
Bottom Teams
23 Toronto Maple Leafs 18
24 Nashville Predators 16
25 New York Islanders 15
26 Carolina Hurricanes 14
27 Tampa Bay Lightning 14
28 Detroit Red Wings 12
29 Montreal Canadiens 12
30 Phoenix Coyotes 12
Most of the top teams in fighting are the crappy teams that aren't in a playoff position right? You guys are so stupid!
Wasn't there a lot of people on here who wanted the guy? Also he might have more fights then our team but Brown dummied him if i'm remembering correctly.
Holy crap some of you guys in this thread are so dumb and not getting the meaning of the OP. The OP is saying one player has more more fighting majors than our entire team!! And it shows our team is soft and we do not stick up for each other. If you think there has not been atleast a dozen times where we had to stick up for each other and we did not then your a dummy who does not understand hockey. No one is talking about having a goon but a better balance of team toughness. God some of you guys are such little girls and are afraid of physical hockey on the leafs and it makes me sick. We need more team toughness, speed only takes you so far and then you need some grit.
And for the morons who think you don't need to fight check this out. Top teams in fighting compared to the bottom teams.
1 New York Rangers 46
2 Boston Bruins42
3 Philadelphia Flyers 42
4 Columbus Blue Jackets39
5 Ottawa Senators 37
6 Vancouver Canucks 33
7 Anaheim Ducks 29
8 New Jersey Devils 28
Bottom Teams
23 Toronto Maple Leafs 18
24 Nashville Predators 16
25 New York Islanders 15
26 Carolina Hurricanes 14
27 Tampa Bay Lightning 14
28 Detroit Red Wings 12
29 Montreal Canadiens 12
30 Phoenix Coyotes 12
Most of the top teams in fighting are the crappy teams that aren't in a playoff position right? You guys are so stupid!
A lot of the bottom teams are also in the playoffs right?
Holy crap some of you guys in this thread are so dumb and not getting the meaning of the OP. The OP is saying one player has more more fighting majors than our entire team!! And it shows our team is soft and we do not stick up for each other. If you think there has not been atleast a dozen times where we had to stick up for each other and we did not then your a dummy who does not understand hockey. No one is talking about having a goon but a better balance of team toughness. God some of you guys are such little girls and are afraid of physical hockey on the leafs and it makes me sick. We need more team toughness, speed only takes you so far and then you need some grit.
And for the morons who think you don't need to fight check this out. Top teams in fighting compared to the bottom teams.
1 New York Rangers 46
2 Boston Bruins42
3 Philadelphia Flyers 42
4 Columbus Blue Jackets39
5 Ottawa Senators 37
6 Vancouver Canucks 33
7 Anaheim Ducks 29
8 New Jersey Devils 28
Bottom Teams
23 Toronto Maple Leafs 18
24 Nashville Predators 16
25 New York Islanders 15
26 Carolina Hurricanes 14
27 Tampa Bay Lightning 14
28 Detroit Red Wings 12
29 Montreal Canadiens 12
30 Phoenix Coyotes 12
Most of the top teams in fighting are the crappy teams that aren't in a playoff position right? You guys are so stupid!
I don't really see the correlation.
2 of the top fighting teams are also 2 of the worst teams in the league.
Half of the bottom teams in fighting are presently in a playoff spot.
2 of the top fighting teams are also 2 of the worst teams in the league.
Half of the bottom teams in fighting are presently in a playoff spot.
I think you failed.
I think he made his point quite well.
Look at the correlation between top 8/bottom 8 in fighting majors and where teams rank in the standings within our conference. These are the teams we play the bulk of our games against, and if we do make the playoffs, these are the teams we'll face.
Top 8 in fighting majors (eastern conference teams only):
1 New York Rangers 46 (77 points, 1st place)
2 Boston Bruins 42 (70 points, 2nd place)
3 Philadelphia Flyers 42 (69 points, 3rd)
5 Ottawa Senators 37 (64 points, 7th)
8 New Jersey Devils 28 (66 points, 5th)
All playoff teams, including the top three teams in the entire conference!
Now the bottom 8 teams for number of fights (eastern conference teams only):
23 Toronto Maple Leafs 18 (62 points, 8th place)
25 New York Islanders 15 (54 points, 13th)
26 Carolina Hurricanes 14 (53 points, 15th)
27 Tampa Bay Lightning 14 (54 points, 12th)
29 Montreal Canadiens 12 (55 points, 11th)
Only one playoff team (and that's us squeeking in at 8th place). The others make up 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the east.
I don't think anybody is saying "duh... if you fight, you win... duh". Obviously, you have to play the game, score goals, play solid defensively, have good goaltending, special teams etc.
But part of being a well rounded team is being tough enough to play against the big boys, and we're in a very tough conference. When the Bruins, Rangers etc. start laying the body on us, we're ill-equipped to handle it, particularly up front. We lose far too many puck battles. These teams come at you hard and wear you down, and when you push back, they'll challenge you. Whether or not you like that aspect of the game, it's a part of the overall picture, and we don't measure up very well against the competition right now.
Adding a couple of guys with some size and sandpaper will enable us to win more puck battles in the trenches, protect and make room for our skilled players and help us exploit our speed advantage.
he leads nhl in hits is 22 6'3' 220 and is praised on Islanders board for his winning of board battles for puck and he has 13 pts and plays 13 minutes a game
Yeah useless....no he is the type pf player we need on bottom 6
Not trolling...
Zenon is also strong in the faceoff circle and a great team guy, all the players love him. He is far from useless and is exactly what you want from a 4th liner
The distribution looks pretty random. Some good teams fight and some don't. Meathead.
Meathead is absolutely bang-on. I think hockey fans who co-relate fighting with team toughness are idiots. Those who co-relate toughness with winning % are even dumber. But the one that takes the cake is the guy who does both and then call others "stupid" to try and elevate his swiss cheese theory.
Doesnt the fact that the worst team in hockey by a long-stretch (CBJ) are 4th in fighting and the best team in hockey (DET) is tied for dead last in fighting tell you something important? It tells me that success and fighting have ZERO co-relation. Thats what it tells me.
It also doesn't preclude me from knowing the importance of having tough players in your lineup but it has nothing to do with icing goons....Like I said, I would take Holmstrom in my lineup over any 4th line "enforcer" in the game. Without a second thought.
LOL @ all the "meatheads" whining for dressing of stiffs like Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill. LOL.
I think Thomas Holmstrom is one tough SOB......how many crosschecks has that guy taken in the back? I don't think I have ever seen him discouraged from getting into his "office" (in front of the goalies face...hehehhe).
I am in full agreement with the your notion of one-dimensional goons being obsolete and not really a contributing factor to success. I really love watching the Bruins (not against the Leafs however as they tend to destroy the Buds), but in the playoffs. They just punish teams and wear them down. I love that kind of hockey. But as you said toughness comes in many flavors and one does not have to drop the gloves to demonstrate it. My example of Holmstrom and that of Datsyuk are exactly the tough players who don't need to fight but are winners to have on your team.
True, toughness does come in many flavours.
Dmitri Yushkevich played over 1100 games and had just three fights. But no one in their right mind could possibly say that he wasn't tough... the guy was a hard-rock player who hit hard, got hit, blocked shots, and played despite numerous horrific injuries. He could play on my team any time.
Currently, I love the way Grabovski plays the game. He's a tough little s.o.b. in his own way. The guy is absolutely fearless, and is more than willing to pay the price to make a play. And no matter how hard he gets hit, he'll get right back up and do it all over again.
I really hope Burke can re-sign him, and not just for his offensive contribution. He's a warrior.
I'm all for fighting. I love it in hockey and do wish Brown would go at it more. That said, you made no point at all with this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masyo88
And for the morons who think you don't need to fight check this out. Top teams in fighting compared to the bottom teams.
1 New York Rangers 46
2 Boston Bruins42
3 Philadelphia Flyers 42 4 Columbus Blue Jackets39 - Worst team in the NHL
5 Ottawa Senators 37 - Not in a playoff spot
6 Vancouver Canucks 33 7 Anaheim Ducks 29 - 13th in the West
8 New Jersey Devils 28
Bottom Teams
23 Toronto Maple Leafs 18 - Currently in a playoff spot 24 Nashville Predators 16 - In a solid playoff spot
25 New York Islanders 15
26 Carolina Hurricanes 14
27 Tampa Bay Lightning 14 28 Detroit Red Wings 12 - Best team in the NHL
29 Montreal Canadiens 12 30 Phoenix Coyotes 12 - Currently in a playoff spot
Most of the top teams in fighting are the crappy teams that aren't in a playoff position right? You guys are so stupid!
I think fighting can help a team, but to say that having more fights would make the Leafs a top end team is laughable. We do need to be tougher, but being tough =/= fighting.
Wow, like a Brown/Steckel hybrid? That actually sounds pretty good, having two roles in one, in the place of two roles in two players. Saves a roster spot for another hockey player does it not?
Not sure if trolling, but yes I agree with you lol.
Dmitri Yushkevich played over 1100 games and had just three fights. But no one in their right mind could possibly say that he wasn't tough... the guy was a hard-rock player who hit hard, got hit, blocked shots, and played despite numerous horrific injuries. He could play on my team any time.
Currently, I love the way Grabovski plays the game. He's a tough little s.o.b. in his own way. The guy is absolutely fearless, and is more than willing to pay the price to make a play. And no matter how hard he gets hit, he'll get right back up and do it all over again.
I really hope Burke can re-sign him, and not just for his offensive contribution. He's a warrior.
Funny how the guys you mention are both Russians, well Grabovski is technically Belarusian I believe? Correct me if Im wrong. They have the stereotype of the gutless, heartless types who you DONT want to go into tough competition like playoff hockey with. Well....those two guys you just mentioned blows the hell out of that stereotype. Both guys are warriors and both guys should be welcome on anybody's hockey team. Loved Yushkevich...he was a beast and nobody can question the heart/grit of Grabovski, IMO. Tough players who don't fight.
Look at the correlation between top 8/bottom 8 in fighting majors and where teams rank in the standings within our conference. These are the teams we play the bulk of our games against, and if we do make the playoffs, these are the teams we'll face.
Top 8 in fighting majors (eastern conference teams only):
1 New York Rangers 46 (77 points, 1st place)
2 Boston Bruins 42 (70 points, 2nd place)
3 Philadelphia Flyers 42 (69 points, 3rd)
5 Ottawa Senators 37 (64 points, 7th)
8 New Jersey Devils 28 (66 points, 5th)
All playoff teams, including the top three teams in the entire conference!
Now the bottom 8 teams for number of fights (eastern conference teams only):
23 Toronto Maple Leafs 18 (62 points, 8th place)
25 New York Islanders 15 (54 points, 13th)
26 Carolina Hurricanes 14 (53 points, 15th)
27 Tampa Bay Lightning 14 (54 points, 12th)
29 Montreal Canadiens 12 (55 points, 11th)
Only one playoff team (and that's us squeeking in at 8th place). The others make up 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the east.
I don't think anybody is saying "duh... if you fight, you win... duh". Obviously, you have to play the game, score goals, play solid defensively, have good goaltending, special teams etc.
But part of being a well rounded team is being tough enough to play against the big boys, and we're in a very tough conference. When the Bruins, Rangers etc. start laying the body on us, we're ill-equipped to handle it, particularly up front. We lose far too many puck battles. These teams come at you hard and wear you down, and when you push back, they'll challenge you. Whether or not you like that aspect of the game, it's a part of the overall picture, and we don't measure up very well against the competition right now.
Adding a couple of guys with some size and sandpaper will enable us to win more puck battles in the trenches, protect and make room for our skilled players and help us exploit our speed advantage.
I like how the morons in this thread who said I was not making sense completely ignored this post. We play in one of the toughest divisions in hockey with the Sabres, Bruins, and Senators and Montreal is looking to get bigger and tougher which they have said numerous times. Our team is a fineness team that come in the play offs time will get abused by the Rangers, Bruins, Flyers and we only have one person who plays a tough game night in and night out and can stick up for his teammates and he is Mike Brown.
You guys act like our speed has taken us to first place and we have been winning a lot this season and most teams haven't figured to shut us down. There has been multiple times this season where we needed to fight and defend each other but our team is to soft to do so. Its pathetic how so many people support soft, speed hockey which fails in the playoffs. Can't wait to make the playoffs and after we got abused by teams physically all the nancies crying for more toughness and all that.
I like how the morons in this thread who said I was not making sense completely ignored this post. We play in one of the toughest divisions in hockey with the Sabres, Bruins, and Senators and Montreal is looking to get bigger and tougher which they have said numerous times. Our team is a fineness team that come in the play offs time will get abused by the Rangers, Bruins, Flyers and we only have one person who plays a tough game night in and night out and can stick up for his teammates and he is Mike Brown.
You guys act like our speed has taken us to first place and we have been winning a lot this season and most teams haven't figured to shut us down. There has been multiple times this season where we needed to fight and defend each other but our team is to soft to do so. Its pathetic how so many people support soft, speed hockey which fails in the playoffs. Can't wait to make the playoffs and after we got abused by teams physically all the nancies crying for more toughness and all that.
You need to tone down the rhetoric...find me the statistics of last years playoffs for the teams fighting vs. their success like the one just presented. It probably wont be all that impressive because there just aren't many fights in the playoffs especially the deeper you go and the more important the games become. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you when you preach team "toughness"......especially come playoff time.... I just think your definition of team toughness may differ than others...
Meathead is absolutely bang-on. I think hockey fans who co-relate fighting with team toughness are idiots. Those who co-relate toughness with winning % are even dumber. But the one that takes the cake is the guy who does both and then call others "stupid" to try and elevate his swiss cheese theory.
