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The 2011 Undrafteds Thread

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Old
01-30-2012, 10:33 PM
  #126
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so that is the starting lineup and main spares of my all-undrafted squad.

coach: Glen Murray
associate coach: Eddie Johnston

Lorne Ferguson - Darius Rusnak - Tim Ecclestone
George Allen - R.J. Umberger - Mark Parrish
Rich Sutter - Dean McAmmond - Keith Jones
Larry Jeffrey - Scott Thornton - Tie Domi

Mathieu Dandenault (D/RW)
Lindy Ruff (LW/D)

Richard Smehlik - Billy Baird
Tom Edur - Stephane Quintal
Arnold Kadlec - Milan Chalupa
Harry Smith - Pat Price

Glen Hanlon
Jorma Valtonen
Doug Favell
Clint Malarchuk

review:

there aren't a lot of great scorers left. Tim Ecclestone and George Allen are probably my best all-around players on the top-6. Rusnak stood out just enough among europeans to merit selection, and Parrish was a stat pick at this point. Ferguson is here just for lasting as long as he did in the O6.

but I think that is a pretty awesome all-time undrafted bottom-6. It is loaded with pugnacity, speed, agitation, two-way ability, and decent offensive skill. If anything it lacks size, aside from Thornton. As far as roleplaying goes, Benoit Brunet and Marty Reasoner ain't got nothing on these guys.

In goal I got the guy that I think stands out as the top international goalie left, and three NHLers who managed to perform at an above-average level for a decent amount of time. In all honesty, I think Hanlon stands head and shoulders above the other three. This is a guy who's really underrated.

Not much to say about the D. The guys I have so far, are all picked for different reasons. Smehlik for being heavily relied upon by very good teams. Baird as an intriguing old school defensive specialist. Edur with an incredible two-season peak in the NHL. Quintal for lasting over 1000 games as a useful player. Kadlec and Chalupa are the international selections, with their respective Canada Cup and Golden Stick records the tipping points. Harry Smith is an intriguing Canadian international player. Make sure you read up on him. Price is the tough guy with puck skills. Rather enigmatic, but good teams made good use of him.

The coaches are pretty much vanilla stat selections, picked for holding down NHL jobs for a long time and winning more than they lost. They did both get adams consideration too. The international coaches that are left just blend together with no one really standing out. At least with Murray I got some international experience too.

I think every one of the above picks could find a home in the AA draft of 2011, if not higher.

Still to come: a taxi squad of five more forwards and five more defensemen to complete the undrafted franchise.

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02-10-2012, 08:37 PM
  #127
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Hank Goldup, LW



Goldup seems to have an ok resume as a two-way player but also a fair resume as an offensive player too. Goldup has three 30-point seasons (one in 1945). Just two other pre-expansion players are still out there with three, and they are both making my taxi squad (just one with two 30+ point seasons remains, reg Sinclair, and he has been mentioned here). So Goldup stands out offensively among available players of his time, plus seems to have a bit of a two-way game and is a playmaking winger, which is rare.

- Stanley Cup (1942)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1940)
- Tied for playoff goal lead, 6th in points (1940)
- 10th in assists (1945)
- 17th in assists (1943)
- Three 30+ point seasons

Quote:
Originally Posted by loh.net
Hank Goldup was a talented left-winger who played over 200 NHL games in the 30s and 40s. He was a fine passer who regularly accumulated more assists than goals.
The native of Kingston, Ontario played junior with the local Dunlop Forts before moving to Toronto to compete for the North Vocational squad and the Marlboros. After scoring 18 goals in 16 games for the senior Toronto Goodyears in 1938-39, Goldup was ready for the pros.

The hard working winger split the 1939-40 season between the Maple Leafs and the AHL's Pittsburgh Hornets. He then played two years with the big club and sometimes worked on a line with Nick Metz. He helped Toronto win the Stanley Cup in 1942 but few months later he was sent to the New York Rangers as part of the package for star defenceman Babe Pratt. Goldup was a fine two way player for three years on Manhattan and also spent the 1943-44 season with the Toronto Army Shamrocks. He played 3 1/2 years in the minors and the Quebec Senior League before retiring in 1949.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
The fact that Hank Goldup did not own his own pair of skates until he was 16 years old did not prevent him from achieving success in the NHL with the Toronto Maple Leafs and New York Rangers in the 1940s.

Conn Smythe first noticed Goldup as a 17 year old when he scored 29 goals in just 16 games in his hometown of Kingston, Ontario. Smythe signed him up and brought him to Toronto to continue his amateur career.

Goldup ended up playing at Northern Vocational school in Toronto along side Herbie Carnegie. Swivel Hips Carnegie was as fine a hockey player in the country at that time, but he would not be destined for the NHL due to his skin colour. Carnegie was the son of Jamaica immigrants. But in this season the two worked magic together, with Goldup averaging 2 goals per game.

Speedy Hank would move on to star with the Toronto Marlies, leading the entire OHA in scoring with 25 goals and 41 points in just 14 games.

Goldup finally signed a pro contract with Smythe's Leafs in 1939. He started the season with the AHL Pittsburgh Hornets but finished the season in Toronto alongside fellow newcomer Pete Langelle and veteran winger Gus Marker.

Impressions of Goldup's first NHL games were mixed at best. He scored 6 goals in 21 games and newspaper reports at the time suggested he showed little interest in playing defensively. But by playoff time he was turning into a star, scoring 5 goals (including a couple of game winners) in 10 games, tying Syl Apps for the playoff scoring lead. Newspapers changed their tune, proclaiming "Hankus Pankus Goldup" as "the most consistently dangerous puck pusher" on the team. Another paper said Goldup "makes Houdini look like a rookie."

The New York Rangers would win the Stanley Cup in 1940, but Goldup had made his impression in the NHL. It was a good thing, too. He would never recapture that playoff magic in the next couple of seasons in Toronto, thanks in part to a nasty hip injury when he crashed into the immovable goal posts of the day. Still, he was a member of the Leafs amazing 1942 Stanley Cup championship team.

While the Leafs grew impatient with him, the Rangers remembered his previous exploits and gave him a chance. They traded future Hall of Famer Babe Pratt for Goldup and Red Garrett. Pratt would go on to greatness, while Goldup and Garrett went on to serve in World War II shortly thereafter. Only Goldup would return.

Goldup rejoined the Rangers in 1945 but only for a season and a half before being demoted to the minor leagues. His stay there was successful but short thanks to injuries suffered in a summer softball game. Torn ligaments all but ended his playing days in 1947.

Goldup retired and became a salesman for Molson Breweries and Andres Wines. Later he served as a sales executive for Victoriaville hockey sticks. He stayed involved with hockey by coaching youth, including his own son Glenn who would go onto his own NHL career in the 1970s.

Hank Goldup suffered a stroke in 2002 and for the final three years of his life he lived in a care facility, unable to communicate verbally. But legend has it when the Stanley Cup dropped by for a visit Goldup whispered the trophy's name.

"Those were the clearest two words I heard him speak in years," Glenn said.

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02-10-2012, 08:39 PM
  #128
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Steve Kraftcheck, D



Kraftcheck might have the best career of any AHL defenseman. He had the career points record for decades, and he was a six-time all-star from 1956 through 1961, a time when NHL replacement level players were at an all-time high, and being an AHL all-star really meant something. This includes three first team selections in 1958, 1959, and 1960, and his Eddie Shore trophy as the league's top defenseman in 1959.

He had 9 AHL seasons in which he had at least 33 points. This includes points finishes of 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 5th.

A record like this tells me that Kraftcheck should have been in the NHL these seasons, even if as a #3-4, even if on an average team. He was probably hockey's 20th-best blueliner in his prime, or even better than that. At the very least, it's a reasonable assumption that Kraftcheck was the best north american blueliner not in the NHL regularly at this time. In a modern 30-team NHL, he might be as good as a perrennial #2-3 defenseman. And all those guys were drafted long ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahlhalloffame.com
Steve Kraftcheck was known as one of the smartest and steadiest defensemen in American Hockey League history. He retired in 1964 as the AHL's all-time leading scorer among blueliners with 453 points, a standard that would hold up for more than four decades.

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02-10-2012, 08:41 PM
  #129
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Don Metz, W



Metz wasn't that great a player as an NHLer. He got into 172 NHL games, scoring 55 points. But there is lots to like here, and Metz should definitely be picked by now. Let's recap why:

- He was a contributor to five stanley cups with the Leafs. Obviously no available players have five stanley cups. (are there any with four, even? what about three?)
- The fact that he was with the strongest team in the league over his career is a plus for him; it helps to explain why he was unable to stick as a regular for an extended length of time
- He missed three full years due to WW2, at the ages of 27-29.
- His 42 NHL playoff games are the most among any available player circa the 1967, before the introduction of more teams and longer playoffs.
- His performance in the 1942 finals in particular is legendary. He was brought in to replace an ineffective Gordie Drillon with Toronto down 3-0 in the series, then led the team with 7 points in the next 4 games to take home the cup.
- his 5 points in the 1947 playoffs put him in a tie for 6th on that cup winning squad as well.
- He had an excellent non-NHL career, starting with his senior career. The competition doesn't look to have been great, but Metz proved he was grossly overqualified for that league, with 98 points in 54 games, including a scoring title and a playoff scoring title, and twice playing for the Allan Cup.
- He played 38 games in the 1940 IAHL, and his per-game rate would have led that league had he not been called up to the leafs for 10 games.
- He dominated the SSHL in the 1943 war year with 98 points in 34 games including playoffs. Murray Armstrong, a proven NHL producer when given the chance on lesser teams, had 89 points in those 34 games. Roy Conacher, NHL star, had 25 in 23. Again, the overall competition of the league was not great, but Metz killed that league. His efforts got him into a 3rd Allan Cup tournament.
- as an up-and-down player with the Leafs, Metz scored 100 points in 88 games over 4 postwar seasons. His scoring rate in the 1946 season would have made him 8th in AHL scoring, and 1st in 1947.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loh.net
Don Metz followed his older brother, Nick, east from Saskatchewan to Toronto. After playing junior with St.Michael's College, Don played senior hockey in Toronto, finishing the 1937-38 season as the OHA Senior's leading scorer. Don's 42 points in sixteen games earned him a shot with the Toronto Maple Leafs during the 1938-39 playoffs.

The aggressive-checking redhead bounced between Toronto and the AHL Pittsburgh Hornets in 1939-40, but he was recognized as a dependable forward and found himself playing fulltime in blue and white during the 1940-41 and 1941-42 seasons. In fact, Metz started out as a spare part in the 1941-42 playoffs, but Leaf coach Hap Day played a hunch, inserting him and rookie Gaye Stewart into the lineup in place of veterans Hank Goldup and Gord Drillon at a desperate time in the series.

Day's strategy worked, and the Leafs turned the tide, erasing a three-games-to-none deficit in the finals against the Red Wings and winning four straight games to shock the world and win the most improbable of Stanley Cup wins. Don Metz played a substantial role, scoring four goals and three assists in the four games he was employed in the final. That Stanley Cup was one of five Metz would enjoy during the nine partial seasons he played in Maple Leaf Gardens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
Don Metz is chiefly remembered for his heroics in the 1942 Stanley Cup final in which the Toronto Maple Leafs staged the greatest comeback in hockey history. After losing the first three games to the Detroit Red Wings, the Leafs improbably won the next four games and the Stanley Cup.

It was Don Metz who replaced benched sharpshooter Gordie Drillon on right wing on the top line with Syl Apps and brother Nick Metz. Coach Hap Day decided to bench Drillon and defenseman Bucko McDonald in favor of Don and defenseman Ernie Dickens after their indifferent play in the first three losses to Detroit.

Don had played in the 1939 playoffs and played parts of the next three seasons before this opportunity to shine. He never was a scorer before, but Hap Day decided that he had nothing to lose by trying him out at this point, since Drillon had been totally ineffective in this series.

Toronto looked finished at first, but then tied the score 2-2 in game four going into the third period. The Detroit Olympia rocked as Carl Liscombe put Detroit ahead 3-2. But then, the Leafs reawakened. Syl Apps, who hadn't scored in the finals, scored to tie it and then Nick Metz took a pass from Apps to win the game, Don also assisting on the goal. The Leafs would live to fight another day.

Game 5 Don's turn to shine. He had a hat trick and assisted on both of Apps 2 goals as Toronto walloped Detroit 9-3.

Detroit made changes for game 6, but none of the Wings could contain Don Metz. Fourteen seconds after the second period began, he intercepted a pass near the Detroit goal and beat goalie Johnny Mowers with a quick shot. It was his fourth goal in three games. Toronto got two more goals for a 3-0 victory and a 3-3 tie in the series.

Don Metz's heroics weren't needed in the seventh and deciding game. Before the largest crowd to see a hockey game in Canada at that time, Toronto won the Cup with a 3-1 victory.

This was Don Metz's 15 minutes of fame. He would soon join the armed forces and missed the next two seasons. He did happen to return to the Leafs in time for the 1945 playoffs. Toronto again won the Cup, though Don did not play a notable role.

Strangely, Don Metz never really played regularly in the NHL, often shuttling between the Leafs and their AHL farm team the Pittsburgh Hornet. But he was always to be found in the playoffs. In 1946-47, he had 2 goals and 3 assists in the playoffs as Toronto won its first of three straight Stanley Cups. Metz was on all of those teams, giving him 5 Stanley Cup championships in his 7 year career.

Don Metz played in 172 NHL games, scoring 20 goals and 35 assists for 55 points during the regular season

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02-10-2012, 08:43 PM
  #130
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Greg Smith, D



Smith went from being a heavily-used player on bad teams, to a #4 on a stanley cup finalist, to a contributing player on pretty good teams. With a career average of 20.57 minutes per game maintained over 829 games, you'd think he should be an MLD player. The downside is, his teams were not good: 15% below average when weighted throughout his career. Still, as a guy who could play massive minutes on a terrible team and contribute to good ones (and get into 63 playoff games) he is more than worthy here, and stands out above many AA and A level defensemen.

With 288 points in 829 games, Smith is the highest scoring defenseman available. He had four 30+ point seasons, and a total of nine with 20+. Smith was a willing fighter, with 74 in his career. Also, while toiling for the Cleveland Barons earlier in his career, Smith was twice called upon to represent Canada at the world championships.

At age 21, Smith became a full-time NHLer with Cleveland, playing as their #5. The very next year he was their #1 defenseman in all situations, playing ahead of Jean Potvin, Bob Stewart and Jim Neilson, getting 28.24 minutes a game, 9th in the NHL. Then he went to Minnesota for the 1979 season, with the team just starting their emergence from the 1970s doldrums. He was their #2 defenseman behind Gary Sargent and ahead of Brad Maxwell. In 1980 he suffered through some injuries and took a backseat, playing as their #6 behind a pretty stacked core of hartsburg, Maxwell, Sargent, Shmyr and Barrett. However, he was healthy as Minnesota finally did some damage in the playoffs.

1981 was Smith's peak. He played most of the season as the #3 with Maxwell injured, then was the solid #4 as Minnesota got all the way to the finals.

Back to bad teams again, Smith went to the Wings for 4 years and aided in their resurgence. In 1982 and 1983, he played behind Huber and Larson as a #3, then behind Larson and Park in 1984. Randy Ladouceur stepped up to #2 in 1985, leaving Smith as the #4 in Detroit, where he remained through most of the 1986 season.

Smith finished his career as the #5 in Washington behind their all-world top-4 of Murphy, Stevens, Langway and Hatcher.

To recap: 5, 1, 2, 6, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6. A decent career that was also quite long for someone who started in 1976. (Price and Smith are the only available defensemen born in a 10-year period who lasted 700+ NHL games)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey, 1978-1988 editions
one of the youngsters whom Cleveland could be built around... was good enough to be taken by Team Canada to the World Hockey Championships... in spite of youth and first international experience, he played well.. type of player who thrives on hard work. can be extremely aggressive... uses size well, especially around own goal... calm, calculating style causes some to overlook his steady effectiveness... plays rugged yet controlled game... very few silly penalties in his team-leading 147 PIM... a smart playmaker... useful journeyman, tough on defense, good offensively... good skatter, aggressive, handles and moves puck well...

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02-10-2012, 09:12 PM
  #131
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Bob Bassen, C



A little, hard-working defensive forward and penalty killer. Pretty much a poor man's Dave Reid.

Bassen did very little offensively but was an appreciated worker bee on some pretty good teams (11% better than average during his career).

He killed 26% of penalties for his teams and they were 8% better than the league average... not too shabby.

Bassen was at his best from 1991 to 1995, when he averaged 14.94 minutes a game and scored 27-34 points four times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
This is Bob Bassen. If I could pick to relive the career of any hockey player in NHL history, it just might be Bob Bassen. I always have a soft spot for role players, and Bob Bassen was the best of the best.

Bassen was a second generation NHLer. His father Hank was a goalie in the Original Six era. He was orn in Calgary and trained with the Medicine Hat Tigers. Though he was never drafted, Bassen went on to his own 15 year, 765 NHL game career in a much different era. Yet he played every game as if he was a throwback to hockey's glory days.

Bassen was a sweat and guts competitor, always delivering an honest effort as a most valuable role player. In doing so he was the ultimate role model and team player.

Bassen was a much better player than the sum of his parts. He was an average skater, though he had a fair degree of agility. Due to his strong understanding of smart positioning he appeared quicker than he was. He did not possess a great shot. In fact all of his finesse skills would be determined to be average.

Yet his work ethic would over come that make him a valuable competitor. He would play far bigger than his 5'10" 180lb frame suggested. He was not scrappy, but he played with a dogged determination to get loose pucks and shut down offensive attackers. He had a low center of gravity which really enabled him to battle against bigger and better forwards.

Bassen was the type of player coaches love. A bottom six forward who could inspire the entire team in under 15 minutes of action a night. He was highly intelligent on the ice and understood team dynamics off of it. He also endeared himself to the fans.

Because Bassen, unlike say a Bob Gainey, never played on a great team, and he only scored goals in double digits 3 times in 15 seasons, history is destined to forget just how good Bob Bassen was. Hopefully this website helps keep alive the truth.

Bob Bassen could play on my hockey team any day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1994-95
he does have quickness and agility when healthy, which he puts to work in close quarters and to avoid hits from bigger players. Don't get us wrong: If Bassen has to take a hit, he will, but he's also smart enough to avoid unnecessary punishment. Bassen doesn't have great hands or a great shot to go with his work ethic. All of his finesse skills are average at best... he is only so-so on faceoffs....

If there had been Sutter triplets instead of twins, Bassen would have been the third member of the trio. Bassen plays much better than his size, aware every night that if he isn't scrapping along the boards or in front of the net, he will be on the bench... He has a low centre of gravity, which makes it tough to knock him off his feet, and he's closer to the puck than a lot of other skaters. Bassen often wins scrums just by being able to pry the loose puck out from flailing feet.

Although Bassen ranks way down the depth chart in terms of talent, his other qualities move him way up. He is a reliable team man, one of those players who always delivers an honest effort. He matches up night after night against most of the league's better, bigger forwards, and makes them work for what they get. he is a valuable role player.

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02-10-2012, 09:21 PM
  #132
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Don Metz wasn't drafted?

I considered him briefly for the AAA

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02-10-2012, 09:25 PM
  #133
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Wayne Hillman, D



At the end of the 1973 seaon, when Hillman left the NHL with his brother Larry, Wayne Hillman was 27th all-time in games played by defensemen with 691. In fact, all of the top 101 players on this list are already drafted (375+ games). In fact, if you go back even just to 1967, before the number of NHL jobs doubled, Hillman was 83rd all-time with 321 games (still the highest among undrafteds), and not just for bad teams, either: he had 18 playoff games by the time expansion hit, and his teams averaged 71 points in 70 games in his four full seasons, including two years as a regular with the 2nd-place Hawks.

Lasting in the NHL this long is an indication that Wayne Hillman was a very strong and valuable player. With 691 NHL games, Hillman would be one of the available leaders in this category even among post-expansion guys. That he did it in the uber competitive O6 NHL and then after expansion as a 30-something is even more impressive.
If you ignore brother Larry's massive contribution to the Leafs' 1967 Cup win, Wayne's NHL career isn't too far off from his. However, Larry's AHL accomplishments when buried in the minors by the deep Leafs easily trump Wayne's single 2nd team all-star nod there.

Wayne was not a great point producer from the blueline at his best, but did once place 9th in the NHL among defensemen with 20 points. Just over half his career was post-expansion for the Rangers, North Stars and Flyers, and during that time he was a PK beast, playing 38% of penalty kills, and averagd 20.37 minutes per game over 370 games. With Hillman playing all these minutes, these teams were just 6% below average at even strength, and just 1% below average on the PK. In 1970, Philadelphia was just a 58-point team but Hillman was far and away their icetime leader, playing an estimated 29.18 minutes, good for 7th in the NHL.

Hillman established himself in the AHL prior to becoming an NHL regular, and closed out his career with two full WHA seasons as a veteran presence for Cleveland. When it was all said and done, he had played 1085 pro games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1962 hockey card
Wayne developed fast as a defenseman under the tutelage of the late Frank Eddolls, and he has the size and speed to fit in with the present-day demands for a backliner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1970 Hockey Card
a robust checker... the Flyers plan to use him as a defensive forward to take advantage of his bodychecking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 Hockey Card
Wayne has always been a hard-nosed defensive defenseman.. a steadying influence on young Flyers defensemen.
Post-expansion TOI rankings: 5, 5, 1, 3, 6, 6.

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02-10-2012, 09:44 PM
  #134
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Bill Houlder, D



At 6'2" and 217 lbs, Houlder had great NHL size. He wasn't very physical though, more like a slightly lesser version of Gord Murphy. Houlder was a player who really flew under the radar for almost his entire career, but what he carved out was pretty nice:

- 846 games
- 21.12 minutes per game
- he was not just a "poor team #1", his teams averaged just 4% below average
- with 250 career points, he is the 3rd highest scoring available defenseman (Price and Smith ahead)

Houlder took a long time to break into the NHL on a permanent basis: In the 1988-1993 seasons he played just 111 NHL games, averaging just 17.8 minutes a game, while playing 309 games in the minors.

Whether he was a late bloomer, or the extra 30 spots for full-time NHL defensemen created by expansion helped (or a combination), Houlder blossomed in the 1994 season with Anaheim. He put up 39 points and played 23 minutes a game, serving as their #1 even ahead of Alexei Kasatonov.

Back down to earth in 1995, Houlder played for a very strong St. Louis team and was just their #5. Then in 1996, Houlder played as Tampa Bay's #2 defenseman, helping take them to their first playoff berth. Houlder actually outperformed Hamrlik in the 1997 season, taking over as their #1, then was sent to San Jose.

It was in San Jose where Houlder peaked. In the 1998 season, he played as their #1, ahead of Todd Gill, Mike Rathje and Marcus Ragnarsson, and the team made the playoffs for the first time in 4 years. He was again their #1 in 1999, ahead of a fairly strong quintet of Ragnarsson, Norton, Rathje, Marchment and Rouse, and the team made the playoffs again. Two times the #1 defenseman on a playoff team - not too shabby!

Early in the 2000 season, Houlder was sent to Nashville, where he was their #2, playing not behind Kimmo Timonen, but the great Drake Berehowsky! As the team improved from 70 to 80 points, his role reduced to a #3 in 2001. In 2002 he was their #2 as they saw a decline to 69 points. He finished off his career as a 35-year old #4 defenseman as the team improved to 74 points.

Career icetime ranks, 1994-2000: 1, 5, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 2, 4, Seven times a top-2 defenseman on his team, and three of those times his team made the playoffs. Typically, Houlder was not a player who could be "the guy" on a good team, but he could have spent a whole career playing a 2nd pairing role on strong teams - that's just not where his career took him.

Interestingly, Houlder's teams were only below average when he was off the ice. Houlder, playing long and hard minutes, had a career on/off ratio of 1.05, and his teams were just 0.92 when he was on the bench. that is a stark improvement.

Quote:
Hockey Scouting Report 1994-95]Houlder has a big shot, but even at that, his 14 goals are impressive because his overall skills are pretty average. Still, Houlder earned a spot as one of Anaheim's top defense pairing, and he made the most of the situation. Although he struggles as a skater, Houlder has a decent first step... he makes smart choices with his passes. He does not like to carry the puck but is a smart stay-at-home type who is aware he is limited by his range... Houlder is definitely among the big guys who don't hit to hurt. If he did get involved he would be a dominating defensemen, but that's not about to happen at this stage... He will take out his man with quiet efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports Forecaster 1996-97
average skills, but terrific shot. Smart with the puck... a stay at home defenseman...
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKeen's & Sports Forecaster 1999-2000
steady defender with good size and mobility...has progressed into the Sharks' most dependable blueliner... flourished with the added icetime over the years... usually plays a safe game in his own end. plays right side on the first pairing, starts most penalty killing situations and sees spot duty on the PP

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02-10-2012, 09:44 PM
  #135
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Jason York, D



York is another Bill Houlder type. Who's better? Tough call.

Both guys took a while to become solid, respected NHLers. York played just 34 NHL games in the 1992-1995 seasons, averaging just 14.79 minutes a game, while playing 205 in the minors. Like Houlder, he blossomed late and benefitted from the increasing number of jobs in the NHL. He spent one year in Anaheim as their #2 and barely missed the playoffs, then blossomed in Ottawa, the stop in his career for which he should be best known.

With Ottawa, York contributed to five straight playoff teams, that earned 77, 83, 103, 95, and 109 points, although they disappointed in the playoffs, particularly the last three years. York was the #3 defenseman on those first two squads, and the #2 on the last three. Strangely, York's was never a name you heard, but he was on the ice over the course of those five seasons more than anyone else, as Ottawa transitioned from perrennial doormat, to disappointing contender.

York finished as a #4 in Anaheim in 2002, a #3 in nashville in 200 (getting half a minute more than Houlder), and then a #3 in Nashville as the club celebrated its first playoff berth.

Career TOI finishes: 2, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 4, 3, 3.

In 90 fewer games than Houlder, he averaged just slightly more minutes per game (21.41) and for slightly better teams on average (1% above average). Unlike Houlder, who did it four times, York was never a #1 NHL defenseman. And unlike Houlder, York didn't have that same effect on his team's goal differential when on the ice. Both of the last two points could entirely be the result of being on better teams (but the margin in team strength was just 5%). Houlder can't say he contributed to a team as strong as the 1999-2001 Sens though. Both have almost the exact same skill set and size and career path. Both are easily worthy of selection as we approach pick #2000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loh.net
smart, all-around defenceman with good skating ability and hard point shot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1995-96
about ready to hit his defensive prime. a smart, all-around defenseman who put up good numbers in the AHL but is now concentrating on his defensive play. York's finesse skills are fine. He is a good skater with a very hard point shot... a fine penalty killer.He reads plays well and has the skating ability to spring shorthanded chances...

York is not very physical. he is not a big checker, but like Bruce Driver, he employs positional play to angle attackers to the boards... a lot of teams were interested in acquiring York before Anaheim won his services... a reliable two-way defenseman who could have a long and useful NHL career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKeen's 1999-2000
flourished during the first half as part of Ottawa's top pairing... strong-skating rearguard...decision to go to arbitration won't sit well with management (note, he was given 1.45M, about 10% more than league average. For the next 5 years, he earned 10-20% more than the league average)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports Forecaster 1999-2000
had his finest offensive season... has become known as more of a defensive defenseman... a very smart player in his own end. not huge, but knows how to cllear the front of the net...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 2000
York was the Senators' best all-around defenseman last season... employs positional play to angle attackers to the boards... doesn't have a polished defensive game, but does work hard... stepped up his game considerably last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports Forecaster 2000-01
inconsistent in his physical play but is a solid force on the point.. has worked hard to improve his game and now usually finds himself on the top pairing in Ottawa... also counted upon for his leadership

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02-10-2012, 09:46 PM
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turns out the last two forwards I had queued up really weren't that special. So that's a taxi squad of five defensemen and three forwards.

Goldup could fill in at LW on any line here. Metz is definitely a solid role player but might actually have latent offensive ability to fill in at the wing on a scoring line. Bassen is strictly a 3rd/4th liner.

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02-10-2012, 09:48 PM
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So when does Terry Yake get a bio?

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02-10-2012, 10:27 PM
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(work in progress)

Comments on other mentioned players:

A+: So good, they jumped out at me right from the start:

Tim Ecclestone
Scott Thornton
Tie Domi
Milan Chalupa
George Allen

A: So good, that once they were profiled here I knew they belonged:

Arnold Kadlec


B: Just missed the cut for me

Antti Laaksonen: Excellent penalty killer, underappreciated.
Bohuslav Ebermann: I like those international stats.
Bill Touhey: Low GP doesn't scare me off, seasons were half as long back then. Flirted with the leaderboard, LOH says good checker.
Janne Ojanen: Like the international stats.
Blair MacDonald: Would a guy with 426 points in 695 games be picked by now? I'd say so. (that's what he looks like with WHA pts converted)
Thommy Abrahamsson: Intriguing! Wish we knew more.
Leo Bourgeault: Nice find! You might miss him if you look just at GP, but he was an NHL regular for 7 seasons in a small league.
Danny Cox: I don't think he was an above-average player... but he was a 7-year regular.
Dieter Hegen: Definitely love those international stats from the left side.
Art Throop: His name pops up all the time for me as well. Intriguing, at worst.
Richard Zednik: Honestly, Mark Parrish just barely beat him out.
Gerd Trunschka: Again, love those international numbers.
Larry Regan: A late cut for me.
Leon Rochefort: There's lots to like. Lasted a long time, and won a couple cups.
Marshall Johnston: like his international and NHL careers, together they are pretty good.
Darryl Maggs: At the very least, his WHA 1st AST makes him a decent intrigue pick. Too bad he did little in the NHL.
Marc Reaume: Very successful in the AHL, when there was no room for him in the NHL. Like Kraftcheck, he might be MUCH better than we all think.
Gerry Lowrey: Agree, better than Danny Cox.

C: Intriguing picks with some merit and redeeming qualities

Jean Perron: just not enough time as a coach compared to other availables
Dave Gill: not enough of a track record as a coach
Benoit Brunet: He was ok, but not an elite role player
Marty Reasoner: became a checker out of necessity, but not necessarily a good one or for teams that were at all successful
Markus Ketterer: I question the quality of the Finnish league in the 90s.
Michal Grosek: I always liked him. Too short a career for my liking but he had a lot of grit and heart.
Espen Knutsen: Really tough guy to judge but it looks like there's something there
Thomas Rundqvist: Wish we knew more. Tough to judge a guy who didn't come over to the NHL with the other good Swedish players.
Jonas Bergqvist: Wish we knew more. I like that he has potential as a checker.
Al McDonough: his one big season is intriguing, but I'm not sure I like his offensive or defensive resume enough.
Reg Sinclair: I like the two all-star games. But he's a definite step below two guys I cut from that era. Wish he had some good AHL time to supplement that resume.
Timo Jutila: Appears to have potential as an offensive specialist.
Bill MacKenzie: Decent. A definite step below Bourgeault. Established himself as a bonafide regular for 4 full seasons in a small league.
Ron Tugnutt: He was pretty good.
Joffrey Lupul: Not quite a good pick yet, but will get there, from the looks of things.
Braydon Coburn: See Lupul.
Herb Clark: Not sure what to make of him. A 6th in NHL scoring is nice though.
Fran Huck: Really tough to judge. If he was soviet and had those kinds of scoring stats in the worlds and Olympics those years, he'd be taken. But not a great north american player.
Jackie McLeod: Pretty much Fran Huck, pre-expansion. Tough to judge.
Dave Ritchie: Just not sure what he did, aside from that one good offensive season.
Michel Dion: Nothing special, 5 pts below average in his career. but did make an ASG and the AHL time is a plus

D: Not sure what the appeal is

Bill Cleary: Just 22 international games at a time when competition was low. Not sure I can get behind this one.
Chad Larose, Kevyn Adams, Craig Adams: I'm not sure any were above average at what they did. There might be value in taking them as a unit.
Denis Dupere: The ASG doesn't redeem what appears to be a really mediocre 1970s career spent on bad teams.
Max Kaminsky: Just 3 NHL seasons for bad teams?
Magnus Johansson: Why no NHL time?
Mikhail Tatarinov: If it wasn't for the mystique of being a soviet just hitting his stride around 1990, with how fast he fell off I don't think we would even think he was as good as Bryan Fogarty.
John Garrett: He may have been a WHA all-star, but he was just awful in the NHL.
Mikko Makela: Soft, and didn't post good enough NHL numbers for long enough to merit consideration.
Alexandre Daigle: His offense is merely "good" for a player available right now, and if his next-best quality is how he looks in a nurse's uniform.... ugh.
Donald Brashear: Simply not a good hockey player.
Pat Falloon: Just no.
Len Lunde: just didn't last long enough in the NHL, when it was perhaps the easiest to.
Brownie Baker: You gotta show me more than this.
Jere Karalahti: Was a fringe NHL defenseman, #6 on non-playoff teams.
Paul Bibeault: Meh.... wartime goalie.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-10-2012 at 10:44 PM.
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02-10-2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
So when does Terry Yake get a bio?
we would need to be at least at pick #3000.

I know it wasn't a serious question, there's a serious answer.

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02-10-2012, 10:32 PM
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we would need to be at least at pick #3000.

I know it wasn't a serious question, there's a serious answer.
Seeing those old Ducks uniforms reminded me of him for some reason.

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02-13-2012, 11:23 PM
  #141
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A name worth mentioning(I'm not sure if he's ever been drafted, he wasn't here):

Ilpo Koskela, who was named to the 1971 World Championships All Star team. He was selected over Ragulin, and a couple other guys that will get taken in the ATD. That fact itself makes him worthy of being mentioned.

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02-13-2012, 11:31 PM
  #142
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IMO, anyone selected as an All Star in the WCs deserves to be mentioned here, especially if it was after the mid 60s, but even if it was before

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02-13-2012, 11:35 PM
  #143
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I think Daigle should at least be in the C category , but oh well , at least I called the Scott Thornton pick

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02-13-2012, 11:41 PM
  #144
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Stephan Lebeau , very talented player , not sure why his career got into europe but he had a good run in MTL.


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02-14-2012, 06:29 AM
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Tony Hand?

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02-14-2012, 07:39 AM
  #146
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Two defenseman with longevity: JJ Daigneault and Bobby Dollas and Russian Dmitri Kvartalnov.

What are your thoughts on these guys, seventies?

EDIT: just realized Daigneault was selected.

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02-14-2012, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Tony Hand?
Someone would have to put together a case that demonstrates (perhaps through statistical comparables) that Hand was even NHL-caliber at all, and from there, make me believe he could be a 350-400 point scorer, as that's about what it would take to be a worthy pick at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Two defenseman with longevity: JJ Daigneault and Bobby Dollas and Russian Dmitri Kvartalnov.

What are your thoughts on these guys, seventies?

EDIT: just realized Daigneault was selected.
I am not a Daigneault fan. He was an offensive specialist and didn't get a lot of icetime. Interestingly though, he was #3 on the 1993 habs which makes him extremely unique (Beauchemin and Lorimer are the only defensemen taken in the last 500 picks who can say they were top-3 on a cup winner from 1920-2004, Lorimer twice)...

there is one more, I figured it out before but I completely forget who it was now, does anyone know? I know they were fairly recent.

Anyway, Dollas is about a poor man's Houlder or York, so I wouldn't take him quite yet. Fewer minutes for fewer games, for lesser teams. And York and Houlder were literally my last two guys here. But he was somewhere on my radar, just not quite close enough.

Isn't Kvartlinov a forward who had one good NHL season in 1992-93?

His case is intriguing. I can't see myself taking him just yet, but I bet someone would. He was a middling soviet league player until the 1989-90 season, when he exploded, after all the good players were gone. Then another middling season. Then he led the IHL in scoring (which puts him in the conversation, at least, for "best player outside the NHL" circa 1992). then he scores a point per game in a season in the NHL (but so did Greg Adams, Dmitri Khristich, Michal Pivonka, Benoit Hogue, Murray Craven, Derek King, Mike Ricci, Kelly Kisio, Stephan Lebeau, Steve Thomas, Andrew Cassels and Geoff Sanderson this year, mind you) playing with Adam Oates. The next year without Oates he was a half a PPG player, then that was it for him in north america. He finished up in leagues of low caliber.

He showed us a glimpse, but not sure it was bright enough or for long enough.

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02-14-2012, 01:30 PM
  #148
Nalyd Psycho
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The '06 Hurricanes had Aaron Ward as the regular season #3 and playoff #2, and Mike Commodore as their playoff #3...

And I think it is safe to say Bret Hedican will always be the last #1 d-man on a cup winner taken, at least from 1910 onward.

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02-14-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
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The '06 Hurricanes had Aaron Ward as the regular season #3 and playoff #2, and Mike Commodore as their playoff #3...

And I think it is safe to say Bret Hedican will always be the last #1 d-man on a cup winner taken, at least from 1910 onward.
I would look at both the regular season and playoffs together, and conclude that Commodore wasn't the true #3.

Also, Ward was picked in the ATD... believe it or not!

there is an undrafted and unmentioned, still out there. For the life of me, I don't know who it is.

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02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
  #150
Nalyd Psycho
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'04 Lightning.

It's either Brad Lukowich or Cory Sarich.

Edit: Damn, they picked up Sydor at the deadline.

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