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NCAA/CHL Battle heating up

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Old
08-10-2011, 04:42 PM
  #26
SnipeShow91
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Originally Posted by timbitca View Post
I have a damn hard time believing players are getting 300,000$ from a junior team!
totally agree with you timbit. its 6 million in salary for 20 players on any given night if thats the truth, really dont think some junior teams have that kind of cash to dole out to players. Dont junior players get like 50 bucks a week, but most of it goes to food or to their billiets. Players save money over the summer and spend it during the season

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08-10-2011, 05:00 PM
  #27
billycanuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbitca View Post
I have a damn hard time believing players are getting 300,000$ from a junior team!
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Originally Posted by SnipeShow91 View Post
totally agree with you timbit. its 6 million in salary for 20 players on any given night if thats the truth, really dont think some junior teams have that kind of cash to dole out to players. Dont junior players get like 50 bucks a week, but most of it goes to food or to their billiets. Players save money over the summer and spend it during the season

Considering the source, I'd say Mr.Kelly knows exactly what some of the cash payments junior teams are giving players. I won't name name's but I know of some players who in fact did get 6 figure deals from junior teams.

Like Mr.Kelly also said, the money usually goes towards the family.

And this isn't for your run of the mill 3rd/4th line player. This is money to top prospects who can help the club increase revenue drastically.

Major Junior players get more than $50.00 a week, heck Jr.A players get more than that in the Maritime league (housing/food is taken care of by the team, doesn't come out of players "salary")


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09-09-2011, 09:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by billycanuck View Post
Considering the source, I'd say Mr.Kelly knows exactly what some of the cash payments junior teams are giving players. I won't name name's but I know of some players who in fact did get 6 figure deals from junior teams.

Like Mr.Kelly also said, the money usually goes towards the family.

And this isn't for your run of the mill 3rd/4th line player. This is money to top prospects who can help the club increase revenue drastically.

Major Junior players get more than $50.00 a week, heck Jr.A players get more than that in the Maritime league (housing/food is taken care of by the team, doesn't come out of players "salary")
They would be exceptions.

On the topic of schooling for the CHL......The guys at The Pipeline offer this-
http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.com/...-now.html#more

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09-11-2011, 03:45 PM
  #29
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Some CHL players do get money j DDR the table, but rarely do they get 100000 let alone 3.

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12-27-2011, 01:15 PM
  #30
NHL Dude 120
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compromise

im not sure if this is implemented or not but how about this idea

. All players can play in the CHL and not lose NCAA eligibility until they are drafted meaning i.e lets say Seth Jones was in the CHL he would be able to play in the CHL until the 2012-2013 season.

. the rational is that hes too young to be given an NHL entry contract, furthermore the CHL is the top development league.

. by playing in the CHL they get top coaches and then by playing in the NCAA they'll get top education plus development.

so what do you folks at HF boards think ?

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12-28-2011, 04:25 PM
  #31
Rocko604
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Originally Posted by NHL Dude 120 View Post
im not sure if this is implemented or not but how about this idea

. All players can play in the CHL and not lose NCAA eligibility until they are drafted meaning i.e lets say Seth Jones was in the CHL he would be able to play in the CHL until the 2012-2013 season.

. the rational is that hes too young to be given an NHL entry contract, furthermore the CHL is the top development league.

. by playing in the CHL they get top coaches and then by playing in the NCAA they'll get top education plus development.

so what do you folks at HF boards think ?
Until they stop classifying the CHL as a pro league, it won't happen. Hell, CHL players can't even play in the ACHA after the junior eligibility is up and are ready to cash in their CHL scholarships.

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12-28-2011, 04:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
Until they stop classifying the CHL as a pro league, it won't happen. Hell, CHL players can't even play in the ACHA after the junior eligibility is up and are ready to cash in their CHL scholarships.
It is 100% the NCAA's decision as to whether or not to recognize the CHL as a pro league. They could change their mind tomorrow if they want.

Some CHL grads do cash in their scholarships at NCAA schools. They just are not eligible to play hockey there. In fact, many big CIS schools have CIS grads on campus who do not play hockey, either.

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12-28-2011, 06:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hollywood3 View Post
It is 100% the NCAA's decision as to whether or not to recognize the CHL as a pro league. They could change their mind tomorrow if they want.

Some CHL grads do cash in their scholarships at NCAA schools. They just are not eligible to play hockey there. In fact, many big CIS schools have CIS grads on campus who do not play hockey, either.
You're right, it could change. Quite frankly, it doesn't concern me one way or the other, and while I'm a major junior fan first, I'm not an NCAA hater. I think the NCAA is not only a great route to go for development, but it also keeps the doors open for those late-bloomers who can land a scholarship at 19 or 20.

Now, say what you like about the NCAA rule, but for American CHL players to not be able to go home and just play club hockey, I think that is a bit absurd.

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12-28-2011, 07:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
You're right, it could change. Quite frankly, it doesn't concern me one way or the other, and while I'm a major junior fan first, I'm not an NCAA hater. I think the NCAA is not only a great route to go for development, but it also keeps the doors open for those late-bloomers who can land a scholarship at 19 or 20.

Now, say what you like about the NCAA rule, but for American CHL players to not be able to go home and just play club hockey, I think that is a bit absurd.
Agreed. But it's their loss and I could not give a d---. I enjoy watching the major junior grads play in the CIS.

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12-29-2011, 05:42 PM
  #35
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The NCAA should not be mad at the CHL.
The stated purpose of the NCAA is to have players chose the academic route as opposed to the "professional route" which the CHL offers.
Parise, Toews, Heatley and Comrie all chose the education route and their respective college carreers were two years each. Not so hot when one considers that most kids taking the CHL route have careers that last from 3-5 years.
One can certainly understand NCAA coaches frustrations with losing key players they were trying to build a team around.

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12-29-2011, 09:24 PM
  #36
NHL Dude 120
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I agree. the NCAA views the CHL as its main competition. i think my idea could be a viable option. Also does anyone know if any player from the ACHA ever got drafted by an NHL team.

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12-29-2011, 11:46 PM
  #37
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The NCAA may not like the fact that they do not have total control over player movement.
A player can decide to leave the NCAA ranks and play CHL hockey, but according to the rules if some 16 year year old dares play an exhibition game in the CHL in some hockey outpost like Moose Jaw, he gets deemed a professional.
The NCAA is getting it from both ends now and is pretty unhappy.
A fine forward like Ryan Kesler plays only one year of NCAA before bolting to the pro ranks. A fine defenseman like Cam Fowler passes on a full ride at Notre Dame and chooses the OHL Windsor Spitfires and the Memorial Cup and gets first round draft status.

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12-30-2011, 07:55 AM
  #38
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The Chl & Ncaa need to be a bit more open from the Chl side i think there needs to be stricter rules in terms of teams talking to players who already have commited to Ncca and in return the Ncaa needs to drop the rule that says if you play major jr you can't play Ncaa.

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12-30-2011, 10:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by WheatiesHockey View Post
The NCAA may not like the fact that they do not have total control over player movement.
A player can decide to leave the NCAA ranks and play CHL hockey, but according to the rules if some 16 year year old dares play an exhibition game in the CHL in some hockey outpost like Moose Jaw, he gets deemed a professional.
The NCAA is getting it from both ends now and is pretty unhappy.
A fine forward like Ryan Kesler plays only one year of NCAA before bolting to the pro ranks. A fine defenseman like Cam Fowler passes on a full ride at Notre Dame and chooses the OHL Windsor Spitfires and the Memorial Cup and gets first round draft status.
Every now and again though you get a player avoiding the CHL like the plague to go NCAA. Kyle Turris being a prime example. He avoided the Vancouver Giants and a Memorial Cup like the plague just to play one year at Wisconsin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
The Chl & Ncaa need to be a bit more open from the Chl side i think there needs to be stricter rules in terms of teams talking to players who already have commited to Ncca and in return the Ncaa needs to drop the rule that says if you play major jr you can't play Ncaa.
I think their definitely could be some amendments made, but we all know what the NCAA is like when it comes athletes receiving any type of benefits. TBH, I'm surprised they don't view the Canadian Junior A leagues the same way as the CHL.

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12-30-2011, 11:16 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
Every now and again though you get a player avoiding the CHL like the plague to go NCAA. Kyle Turris being a prime example. He avoided the Vancouver Giants and a Memorial Cup like the plague just to play one year at Wisconsin.



I think their definitely could be some amendments made, but we all know what the NCAA is like when it comes athletes receiving any type of benefits. TBH, I'm surprised they don't view the Canadian Junior A leagues the same way as the CHL.
Because avoiding CJHL would hurt recruitment, Even though the top end players get stipends and many enroll in Canadian Uni's or Colleges full-time after HS with some teams financial help.
Turning a blind eye ti CJHL practices benefits NCAA.

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12-30-2011, 05:13 PM
  #41
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Because avoiding CJHL would hurt recruitment, Even though the top end players get stipends and many enroll in Canadian Uni's or Colleges full-time after HS with some teams financial help.
Turning a blind eye ti CJHL practices benefits NCAA.
I am not very knowledgeable regarding the NCAA rules but I don't think the stipends have a ton of bearing on the pro issue. They may have a bit of an impact, but the fact that a good number of CHL players have already signed professional contracts with NHL clubs is what makes them professionals by the NCAA’s definition, not as much the stipends or "salaries" that are rumoured.

So the question would be are there any players in the CJHL who have already signed an NHL contract after being drafted (such as recent first round selections out of the CJHL like Kyle Turris, Joe Colborne etc)? I do not believe there are, as most good enough to be NHL drafted are playing tier II specifically to play NCAA, and a pro contract would void that eligibility.

I have read a few articles that discussed the possibility of allowing CHL players to play NCAA. Concerns included diluting the USHL as the better end players may consider moving to the CHL to play in a higher calibre league as a 16/17 year old before departing for the NCAA, if it all. The largest concern from a college standpoint seemed to be that the NCAA could transform into a "backup plan" league for players who were unable to sign pro contracts out of CHL as opposed to a viable route for the NHL.

From a personal standpoint, I really enjoy watching major junior players play CIS, and would thus not support a move to allow CHL players to play NCAA D1, as I fear it would seriously harm the calibre in the CIS.


Last edited by blackmarketmob: 12-30-2011 at 06:01 PM.
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02-13-2012, 04:21 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by blackmarketmob View Post
I am not very knowledgeable regarding the NCAA rules but I don't think the stipends have a ton of bearing on the pro issue. They may have a bit of an impact, but the fact that a good number of CHL players have already signed professional contracts with NHL clubs is what makes them professionals by the NCAAs definition, not as much the stipends or "salaries" that are rumoured.

So the question would be are there any players in the CJHL who have already signed an NHL contract after being drafted (such as recent first round selections out of the CJHL like Kyle Turris, Joe Colborne etc)? I do not believe there are, as most good enough to be NHL drafted are playing tier II specifically to play NCAA, and a pro contract would void that eligibility.

I have read a few articles that discussed the possibility of allowing CHL players to play NCAA. Concerns included diluting the USHL as the better end players may consider moving to the CHL to play in a higher calibre league as a 16/17 year old before departing for the NCAA, if it all. The largest concern from a college standpoint seemed to be that the NCAA could transform into a "backup plan" league for players who were unable to sign pro contracts out of CHL as opposed to a viable route for the NHL.

From a personal standpoint, I really enjoy watching major junior players play CIS, and would thus not support a move to allow CHL players to play NCAA D1, as I fear it would seriously harm the calibre in the CIS.
Actually, from my understanding the stipends are the issue. The NCAA considers the CHL a "pro" league because of the stipends the players receive. If a player suits up for a single preseason game in the CHL, he automatically loses NCAA eligibility. It's always seemed really stupid and petty of the NCAA to take such a hard line like this.

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02-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ChumpyG View Post
Actually, from my understanding the stipends are the issue. The NCAA considers the CHL a "pro" league because of the stipends the players receive. If a player suits up for a single preseason game in the CHL, he automatically loses NCAA eligibility. It's always seemed really stupid and petty of the NCAA to take such a hard line like this.
The NCAA is considering giving stipends to their athletes. They have put them on hold to work out the issues.

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02-14-2012, 10:06 AM
  #44
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The NCAA is considering giving stipends to their athletes. They have put them on hold to work out the issues.
International players already get stipends. I know my sons Canadian roomate was receiving money over and above his Scholarship money. I'm not sure what these funds were called but I don't think it's right.

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02-14-2012, 11:35 AM
  #45
blackmarketmob
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Originally Posted by ChumpyG View Post
Actually, from my understanding the stipends are the issue. The NCAA considers the CHL a "pro" league because of the stipends the players receive. If a player suits up for a single preseason game in the CHL, he automatically loses NCAA eligibility. It's always seemed really stupid and petty of the NCAA to take such a hard line like this.
Just to clarify, you lose some NCAA eligibility but not all. You can still play in the CHL and then play NCAA. Kent McPherson who plays for Trenton of the OJHL played in the QMJHL with Gatineau in 2009-2010 and just committed to play for Michigan Tech. You are okay as long as you play before you are done high school and do not sign a contract from what I know. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45136

As for the stipends being the cause for the "pro" judgement against CHL, my source was this article: http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011...a-eligibility/

I got my information from:

"The reason CHL players currently lose eligibility isn’t totally based on the stipend each player receives, but the fact that plenty of CHL players have already signed professional contracts with NHL clubs, making them professionals by the NCAA’s definition. While the CHL may not be considered a professional league per se, it includes professional hockey players, thus making it a professional league in the eyes of the NCAA."

This seems to fit considering how the above posts illustrate stipends to NCAA are being considered, yet CHL players retaining eligibility does not seem to be up for discussion. Unless maybe you are aware of the difference between NCAA and CHL stipends, one of which makes CHL players "pro."


Last edited by blackmarketmob: 02-14-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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