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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread IV

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Old
02-14-2012, 12:35 PM
  #976
SFKingshomer
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Umberger is more likely. Still say DL is after Carter

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02-14-2012, 12:38 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
And what you fail to realize is that we don't need a superstar via UFA to win a cup. You need a team that has the talent to win a cup. HOW you get that talent does not matter. What matters is that you can put together a COMPLETE team.

Let's say we get Nash - that eat's up all the cap space that Stoll/Penner would free up (who cares, right, sounds good to me) but then you are stuck with what you have. There's no money left to add veterans to the bottom 6. And let's be honest, our bottom 6 is not the bottom 6 that you find on a Championship team. And we haven't even gotten to Quick's next contract yet.
You do realize roster players would be going too, right? Just for the sake of argument, let's say Johnson & Bernier. That's $5.5M off the books, which would leave projected cap space at about $11M assuming the cap doesn't go up.

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02-14-2012, 12:41 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
A winger short of Ovechkin will not be the Kings highest paid player while DL is in charge
Sadly, you're right. We'll be stuck in the world of Penner's and Williams' as long as Dean is around.

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02-14-2012, 12:44 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
You do realize roster players would be going too, right? Just for the sake of argument, let's say Johnson & Bernier. That's $5.5M off the books, which would leave projected cap space at about $11M assuming the cap doesn't go up.
What about upgrading the 3rd line? Mitchells replacement if he leaves? Is Voynov ready to replace JJ? Nash is too risky.....

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02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Sadly, you're right. We'll be stuck in the world of Penner's and Williams' as long as Dean is around.
Which is fine if your centers and defenseman step up. Wingers like Nash are overrated

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02-14-2012, 12:49 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Sadly, you're right. We'll be stuck in the world of Penner's and Williams' as long as Dean is around.
You mean the same Williams who had 10 less goals and 9 less points last year and 7 less goals this year and the same amount of points for less than half the money that Nash makes?

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02-14-2012, 12:49 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I honestly believe that was an out-liar. Tim Thomas was the reason they won.
Not only that, but every one of Boston's forwards are above average for their spot.

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02-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #983
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People don't seem to have a problem with a couple dime-a-dozen 20 goal scorers taking up 8M of cap space, but they don't want Rich Nash at 7.8M.

Nash scored 41 goals, as a 19 year old, in the clutch and grab era. The only time Nash ever played for a "good" team, he scored 40 goals again, and that was under Hitchcock who was implementing an uber defensive oriented system. All he needs is a change of scenery, I know what this guy is capable of.

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02-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Unfortunately, because he DIDN'T offer what he should have to ...... Chara,.
He couldn't have offered Chara anymore than the max cap hit they offered.
Ray Borque and Cam Neeley did a great last minute sales job.

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Old
02-14-2012, 12:58 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
So the team he's playing on has NOTHING to do with his goal output. The fact that he is playing with NO ONE!

And you think players are dead when they reach age 30? Don't make me list the number of players who AFTER their 30th birthday are still huge point producers and goal scorers in NHL history.

I'll stop lecturing you on it when you start using it.
Get off your high horse and don't put words in my mouth. I simply am pointing out that after he hits 30 Nash is unlikely to produce at a rate that will get him to 500 goals by in another 6 years or so.

You think he is going to light up the NHL with 35-40 goals just because he is playing alongside Kopitar or Richards? Start using your common sense. It may happen for a while, but consistently year in and year out for the next 6-7 seasons? Not likely.

Then there is the matter of his cap hit and the assets on top of that the Kings would have to give up. As I said in the other thread the only way Lombardi should even consider this is if it is for Brown + Bernier + not much more, and yeah Voynov or Johnson would be too much.

Bottom line Nash is not an $8M player, and he probably won't be in the future.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:01 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
You mean the same Williams who had 10 less goals and 9 less points last year and 7 less goals this year and the same amount of points for less than half the money that Nash makes?
Yeah the Williams that doesn't force the opposition to focus on him. Thus, freeing up his linemates. That's the one.

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02-14-2012, 01:02 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
People don't seem to have a problem with a couple dime-a-dozen 20 goal scorers taking up 8M of cap space, but they don't want Rich Nash at 7.8M.

Nash scored 41 goals, as a 19 year old, in the clutch and grab era. The only time Nash ever played for a "good" team, he scored 40 goals again, and that was under Hitchcock who was implementing an uber defensive oriented system. All he needs is a change of scenery, I know what this guy is capable of.
This.

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02-14-2012, 01:02 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
People don't seem to have a problem with a couple dime-a-dozen 20 goal scorers taking up 8M of cap space, but they don't want Rich Nash at 7.8M.

Nash scored 41 goals, as a 19 year old, in the clutch and grab era. The only time Nash ever played for a "good" team, he scored 40 goals again, and that was under Hitchcock who was implementing an uber defensive oriented system. All he needs is a change of scenery, I know what this guy is capable of.
Exactly. He's a game changer.




When was the last time the Kings had somebody who could do those things? **** this, now I'm getting my hopes up.

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02-14-2012, 01:04 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
He couldn't have offered Chara anymore than the max cap hit they offered.
Ray Borque and Cam Neeley did a great last minute sales job.
Bobby Orr was the one who sealed the deal himself. If you go back to the interviews that was the one that left him star struck.

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02-14-2012, 01:05 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
People don't seem to have a problem with a couple dime-a-dozen 20 goal scorers taking up 8M of cap space, but they don't want Rich Nash at 7.8M.

Nash scored 41 goals, as a 19 year old, in the clutch and grab era. The only time Nash ever played for a "good" team, he scored 40 goals again, and that was under Hitchcock who was implementing an uber defensive oriented system. All he needs is a change of scenery, I know what this guy is capable of.
100 percent correct.

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02-14-2012, 01:05 PM
  #991
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Kings need someone like Nash. Lets finally go for the cup for crying out loud. I'm sick of watching us in the same spot the last three years. Whatever it takes.

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02-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #992
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Kings need someone like Nash. Lets finally go for the cup for crying out loud. I'm sick of watching us in the same spot the last three years. Whatever it takes.
We need Rick Nash just to get us to the playoffs I'm starting to fear.... Do you see how ****ed up our scheduled is for the rest of the season?

http://lakingsinsider.com/2012/02/13...inal-25-games/

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02-14-2012, 01:11 PM
  #993
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I'm in the "get Nash" camp. I find it funny that a lot of the people who don't want to get Nash and just some scrubs like Moen are the same people that complained when we got players like Halpern or when there is a rotation of players on the wings like Scott Parse. Moen isn't going to solve anything. Nash will. Heck, I'd be willing to put Bernier in that package! I'd be sad, but where are you going to find a better winger? It's not like we have anyone remotely good in the system that you can say "Well, in a couple of years ____ will take that spot". I'd also be willing to trade JJ in that package.

Mirtle tweeted today:

Quote:
In the last five seasons, Nash has more goals than everyone except Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Iginla, Perry and Heatley
And you guys are saying you don't want that???? Our issue is putting the puck in the net. Here's the answer. Any elite winger will have a cap hit cost equal to Nash, unless he is home grown and we know that won’t happen with what we have now. He’s big, strong and scores goals. He’s loyal to his team and is said to be a good character guy. He’s 27 years old and fits into our core of players at the prime of his career.


ETA: I think Kings fans just like to complain about not having someone to score goals and just want to look forward to the next July 1 when we can sit there eating our In N Out while we watch a star player (who will get Nash money), toy with the Kings so that they can take more money from somewhere back east.

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02-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Those who don't like Nash aren't paying attention to him. The guy is a prolific goal scorer stuck in a black hole in need of a change of scenery after 9 years.

Kings must sell out for this guy. Any asset in the franchise should be on the table for him except AK, JQ & DD8. Lombardi can't use money to get prolific scorers to come to LA apparently, mainly because he won't outbid anyone because he's too cap conscious, co now he has to spend franchise assets to bring in the star player this franchise needs.

Look at the last 10 SC winners. they all had star offensive players with the exception of Boston who had Chara and Thomas and amazing depth. As Chick Hearn always said, you have to have star players to win in any sport. Kings don't have stars. Kopi and Quick aren't there yet, DD8 has a ways to go.

Nash averages 30 goals a year for his LIFE! and has done better than that many times on poor teams. He's the quickest big man in the game and he has the quickest release I've seen since Sakic. Plays big too (unlike Penner).

Kings have to do whatever it takes to bring this guy in.

Those concerned about Quick's free agency... Kings have a lot coming off the cap in 2 years, plus Quick might not wanna stay unless the Kings add a guy like Nash.

Need Nash... Sell out for the guy!
Not in my opinion. First, I never by the argument a guy will start to score more playing with so-and-so. It happens, look at Hull and Oates, but those are the exceptions, not the rules.

Secondly, that cap hit is insane. $7.8 for a guy who is on pace for arguably his worst season since he was a rookie. His defense is brutal and offensively he doesn't use his linemates well. If you think Nash will turn us around or he'll have huge seasons here, you're likely to be mistaken.

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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
Look at what San Jose did, they traded for Thornton and it has been one of their best trades ever!
The last winger they traded for was Heatley, look how well that worked out.

Trading for a big, 27 year old centre is different than a winger. There's a reason wingers are deemed the least important to DL, whether or not you agree with that line of thought.

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If the guy gets to 500 goals he sure as hell will be. more than halfway there, 27 years old. Man you people....not looking at this objectively AT ALL!!!
Maybe he'll be a hall of famer. Hard to say. Nash's goal totals have dropped each of his last three seasons and figure to drop as well this year slightly. He's looking like a 30 goal guy, which would mean he'd need to average 30 goals for another seven seasons to get almost to 500. Definately possible, but also not a lock. Even then, he's still not worth his $7.8 cap hit and all the goals he costs you with his game.

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Yeah, the play where JJ hadn't controlled Ericcson's stick or took the body, which on a "home plate" defensive team is cardinal sin #1. Something tells me if that was Willie or Scuds, that goal isn't scored. Don't get me wrong JJ is getting better, but he's not worth the money they're paying him.


His contract? who cares? are you paying it?

His cap hit?
So Johnson's not worth the money he's paid, but Nash, who cares about his salary and cap hit?

That's wack.

I will care about it because I care about this team and I want them to win. A) I don't think Nash is the guy to give them that push and B) I don't think locking the Kings in for several years at $7.8 million on a guy whose numbers are trending downward and whose point totals are at best pedestrian for someone making his money is the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post

Think about it logically, people.

I 100% agree that Nash is an incredible goal-scoring talent. But would a smart GM handcuff himself just to have that piece? We're talking about the 5th highest cap hit in the league. Is Rick Nash REALLY worth that on top of trading a buch of assets to get him?
This. It's $7.8 million, PLUS whatever we'd have to pay to replace Johnson, Bernier, etc. Then we have Quick to extend.

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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Umberger is more likely. Still say DL is after Carter
I prefer Carter.

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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
You mean the same Williams who had 10 less goals and 9 less points last year and 7 less goals this year and the same amount of points for less than half the money that Nash makes?
In a nut shell. I mean, i want a Nash type too to be a threat and be more likely to score goals in key situations, but over all, RIck Nash is not worth nearly what he is paid. When justin Williams is puttting up the same point totals in a weaker offense than Rick Nash, that should explain a lot to you. How much was Williams ragged on in here throughout the season? You think Rick Nash is going to be loved here? Jeff Carter has six fewer goals in 21 fewer games than Nash and is much cheaper. Why not the push for him?

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #995
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Get off your high horse and don't put words in my mouth. I simply am pointing out that after he hits 30 Nash is unlikely to produce at a rate that will get him to 500 goals by in another 6 years or so.

You think he is going to light up the NHL with 35-40 goals just because he is playing alongside Kopitar or Richards? Start using your common sense. It may happen for a while, but consistently year in and year out for the next 6-7 seasons? Not likely.

Then there is the matter of his cap hit and the assets on top of that the Kings would have to give up. As I said in the other thread the only way Lombardi should even consider this is if it is for Brown + Bernier + not much more, and yeah Voynov or Johnson would be too much.

Bottom line Nash is not an $8M player, and he probably won't be in the future.
Blah Blah Blah.... I said he'll score 500 goals and be a HOFer, you seemed to disagree. you can talk about production vs age... break out Bill James' book and and prove whatever you want. Nash will score 500 goals and go to the HOF. period (health willing)

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02-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #996
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We need an elite winger. It's that simple. If not Nash who else? Parise...? lol

It's time to lay it on the line and take a chance.

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02-14-2012, 01:16 PM
  #997
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as Holmgren said in the off season, you have to take chances to win. The Kings arent going to be a top team until they get someone who can put the puck in the net, may aswell take the risk on Nash being that guy

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02-14-2012, 01:18 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
He couldn't have offered Chara anymore than the max cap hit they offered.
Ray Borque and Cam Neeley did a great last minute sales job.
Either way.. all things being equal Players stay on the east. It's Dean's job to make things unequal and he rarely does. He's too cap conscious. now he's has to overpay in assets to get a guy like Nash.

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02-14-2012, 01:21 PM
  #999
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Funny thing is. This is make or break time for Dean. What if he doesn't make a move and we miss the playoffs or get eliminated the first round? What if he does make a move like this and we finally get deep or to the cup? His job is going to be on the line. Hate to be in his shoes.

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02-14-2012, 01:26 PM
  #1000
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Blah Blah Blah.... I said he'll score 500 goals and be a HOFer, you seemed to disagree. you can talk about production vs age... break out Bill James' book and and prove whatever you want. Nash will score 500 goals and go to the HOF. period (health willing)
Well, you got me there.

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