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Senators Prospect Info 2011-2012 Part 4

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Old
02-13-2012, 06:52 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
I have no idea what everyone on this board sees in Gryba. He still skates worse than Carkner. Unless it improves dramatically, I can't see him in the NHL.
Since the offseason I honestly haven't seen anyone really talk about Gryba as a part of our future. His name comes up now and then but most know what he brings, or doesn't bring.

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02-13-2012, 06:58 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
I have no idea what everyone on this board sees in Gryba. He still skates worse than Carkner. Unless it improves dramatically, I can't see him in the NHL.
People like big bruising defensemen, I've got a soft spot for him, but I've always thought of him as a long shot. I could see him getting some call up duties, but like you said, the skating needs to improve.

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02-13-2012, 07:06 PM
  #28
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For a while now I just haven't seen an NHL skater in Gryba. Maybe he makes it but I doubt it'll be on a good team...probably gets passed over as his contract runs out here and signs with a team with little on the depth chart.

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02-13-2012, 07:14 PM
  #29
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Sdao is more promising, in my opinion. Borowiecki is obviously a step ahead of both.

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02-13-2012, 09:56 PM
  #30
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Damn, Blood sucks? The franchise was really banking on that 4th round pick to save the franchise. Time to pack it up and burn down SBP. Its all over.

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Old
02-14-2012, 09:25 AM
  #31
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Was at the St. John's Ice Caps vs Senators game the other day.

Few thoughts:

The B-Sens are really bad. They play with very little structure compared to what I was expecting to see in person (not streamed). I was extremely unimpressed with Mckenna as a goalie. As a goalie myself I can easily see how he didn't make it to the next level. He doesn't appropriately cover his angles or get square to the shooter and is often out of position. KK should have pulled him in the game I watched way earlier. To be honest the game was within their reach and he dropped the ball by keeping McKenna in until the 5th goal... There must have been 5 posts on McKenna too including two right after one another.

Lehner played well when he came in but he has to watch his body language a bit better. We all know he is emotional but he let in a goal and was visibly upset which can ruin your team's comeback.

Out of the prospects I looked at only two in particular stood out...

Hoffman and Petersson. Petersson was clearly the most skilled player on the ice and could easily beat people one on one. However he was also the most wreckless player with the puck and constantly tried to do things on his own. I watched him try to deke out 3 players in the D-zone, lose the puck and cause a very good scoring chance. I wonder a bit about his hockey sense though it is clear he has superior puck possession skills. It could also contribute that he has no one to play with there...

Hoffman played very well. I think it was clear he has a great skillset and he made smart passes and good plays. I would like to see him shoot more because he does have a cannon of a shot but he does make it clear that he plays at an elite level.

Borowiecki I didn't notice to be honest...

Gryba was good though. His skating is nowhere near as bad as people paint it. I think he has a step up on Carkner. Wiercioch has a ways to go yet but its clear he has the athleticism to be a regular contributor at the NHL level. He needs to fill out majorly as he looks like a beanpole out there.

Finally Corey Locke's skating is horrible. We already knew that but the game up close made it clear to me he is not NHL material unless he improves his pivoting and overall speed.

Last thought: I am a Murray fan, but I think it is terrible that they couldn't bring in some solid veterans to help out the Bsens this year. A culture of winning is important and it is too bad that they are having such a poor year... The playoff experience that junior players could get if they got a chance to join would be valuable

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Old
02-14-2012, 10:16 AM
  #32
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I seriously think that Borocop has Brooks Orpik potential, he is a good skater and is nasty on the boards, and very physical.

Watching his short stint here in Ottawa, I saw more than a 5th or 6th dman, I saw #3-4 dman, sure he made mistakes as all rookies do trying to adjust to NHL speed but he looked good out there and looked better than Philips. Sees the ice well and is very smart with the puck, very underrated passer.

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02-14-2012, 10:37 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1989 View Post
Last thought: I am a Murray fan, but I think it is terrible that they couldn't bring in some solid veterans to help out the Bsens this year. A culture of winning is important and it is too bad that they are having such a poor year... The playoff experience that junior players could get if they got a chance to join would be valuable
Ok... let's see

* All those numbers are without playoffs games.

a) Before the season started they had :

Corey Locke : 534 AHL games + 9 NHL games
Mark Parrish : 118 AHL games + 722 NHL games
Francis Lessard : 522 AHL games + 115 NHL games
Tim Conboy : 412 AHL games + 59 NHL games

b) After the season started, they also traded for :

Rob Klinkhammer : 288 AHL games + 1 NHL game

Looks like solid veterans to me (except Lessard but he is here to protect the younger guys)

- They also had an experienced goalie that is supposed to back up Lehner :

Mike McKenna : 164 AHL games + 17 NHL games (that's a good amount for a goalie)

- They also had a few younger guys approaching "veteran territory" (check below for definition) :

Craig Schira : 135 AHL games (almost 200 pro games now)
Nikita Filatov : 75 AHL games + 44 NHL games + 26 KHL games (almost 200 pro games now)
Jim O'Brien : 156 AHL games + 6 NHL games (almost 200 pro games in NA now)
Kaspars Daugavins : 182 AHL games + 1 NHL game (almost 250 pro games in NA now)

- Finally, they also had a guy named Lee Sweatt (who played pro hockey in Europe and a bit in AHL/NHL, 221 pro games if I'm correct) who retired at the last minute, and kinda screwed their plans for the defense.


Bottom line, Bingo has its maximum of AHL veterans, which is 5 (Locke, Parrish, Klinkhammer, Lessard, Conboy). They even had a few others that have some decent pro experience (McKenna, Schira, Filatov, O'Brien, Daugavins, Sweatt) but Sweatt retired, Daugavins made the NHL (because of Winchester and Regin injuries) and Filatov decided to go back to the KHL.

There's not a lot of veterans in the AHL, it's a league for NHL prospects. There's a reason why there's a rule called "Veteran scratch". You can't dress more than 5 veterans per team in an AHL game.


To be considered a "Veteran" :

260 games in the NHL, AHL or any European Elite league. Calculated at the beginning of the season

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=73


The problems for Bingo this season are more related to the ridculous amount of games missed due to injury (particulary to key players), the inconsistent season of their goalie (who should be one of the best in the AHL but has a sophomore slump + injury problems) and the suckiness of the defense (Godfrey can't fill Sweatt shoes, others have been injured and/or have struggled (Wiercioch, Conboy) and/or regressed (Schira for example), or just haven't progessed a lot (Gryba, Wiercioch). Coach KK seems to be in a sophomore slump too. That being said, they have just 3 wins less than the team in 7th position in the East.


Last edited by Xspyrit: 02-14-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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Old
02-14-2012, 12:54 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1989 View Post
Was at the St. John's Ice Caps vs Senators game the other day.

Few thoughts:

The B-Sens are really bad. They play with very little structure compared to what I was expecting to see in person (not streamed). I was extremely unimpressed with Mckenna as a goalie. As a goalie myself I can easily see how he didn't make it to the next level. He doesn't appropriately cover his angles or get square to the shooter and is often out of position. KK should have pulled him in the game I watched way earlier. To be honest the game was within their reach and he dropped the ball by keeping McKenna in until the 5th goal... There must have been 5 posts on McKenna too including two right after one another.

Lehner played well when he came in but he has to watch his body language a bit better. We all know he is emotional but he let in a goal and was visibly upset which can ruin your team's comeback.

Out of the prospects I looked at only two in particular stood out...

Hoffman and Petersson. Petersson was clearly the most skilled player on the ice and could easily beat people one on one. However he was also the most wreckless player with the puck and constantly tried to do things on his own. I watched him try to deke out 3 players in the D-zone, lose the puck and cause a very good scoring chance. I wonder a bit about his hockey sense though it is clear he has superior puck possession skills. It could also contribute that he has no one to play with there...

Hoffman played very well. I think it was clear he has a great skillset and he made smart passes and good plays. I would like to see him shoot more because he does have a cannon of a shot but he does make it clear that he plays at an elite level.

Borowiecki I didn't notice to be honest...

Gryba was good though. His skating is nowhere near as bad as people paint it. I think he has a step up on Carkner. Wiercioch has a ways to go yet but its clear he has the athleticism to be a regular contributor at the NHL level. He needs to fill out majorly as he looks like a beanpole out there.

Finally Corey Locke's skating is horrible. We already knew that but the game up close made it clear to me he is not NHL material unless he improves his pivoting and overall speed.

Last thought: I am a Murray fan, but I think it is terrible that they couldn't bring in some solid veterans to help out the Bsens this year. A culture of winning is important and it is too bad that they are having such a poor year... The playoff experience that junior players could get if they got a chance to join would be valuable
Great info, thanks.

For Gryba, skating really is something than can improve fundamentally between the age of 20-24, so I'm hoping he improves so that he can be a slightly better version of Carkner (even if he is less of a heavy weight). We could use a big dog on the third pairing long-term.

And those summaries jibe with what I've seen of Petersson and Hoffman. Andre is still figuring out NA hockey though, so I think we can cut him a bit of slack. I've been really impressed with his production over the last month.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #35
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Silfverberg now up to 40pts. 1A so far today.

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02-14-2012, 01:22 PM
  #36
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Wow, Mika Pyörälä just made both Claesson and Wesslau look like **** when he scored 2-0

Zimba probably should have scored one too but manage to hit the goalie..

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02-14-2012, 01:24 PM
  #37
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silfverberg another point!

he is still in beast mode

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02-14-2012, 01:25 PM
  #38
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2 assists for Silfverberg so far, and boy did Cleasson ever look bad on Pyöräläs goal.

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02-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
2 assists for Silfverberg so far, and boy did Cleasson ever look bad on Pyöräläs goal.
He'll fit in very well with our defense.

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02-14-2012, 01:32 PM
  #40
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4 more points until silverberg tie backstroms prospect record for brynas

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02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firenze View Post
4 more points until silverberg tie backstroms prospect record for brynas
Hasn't he already beaten him?

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02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Firenze View Post
4 more points until silverberg tie backstroms prospect record for brynas
Wow. I assume Backstrom was at least 2 years younger though, right?

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
For a while now I just haven't seen an NHL skater in Gryba. Maybe he makes it but I doubt it'll be on a good team...probably gets passed over as his contract runs out here and signs with a team with little on the depth chart.
I would bet against that, they liked Gryba before & I don't see any reason why they still wouldn't like him & give him an opportunity. So many on here gave up on O'Brien & now that he is playing in Ottawa they are saying how good he loooks. So many on here were telling us how great Filatov would be in Ottawa & he has ended up in the KHL. Obviously Murray, the coaches, scouts & others who have a say in these things know what they want from the players. I just think it's too early to determine who makes it & who won't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1989 View Post
Was at the St. John's Ice Caps vs Senators game the other day.

Few thoughts:

The B-Sens are really bad. They play with very little structure compared to what I was expecting to see in person (not streamed). I was extremely unimpressed with Mckenna as a goalie. As a goalie myself I can easily see how he didn't make it to the next level. He doesn't appropriately cover his angles or get square to the shooter and is often out of position. KK should have pulled him in the game I watched way earlier. To be honest the game was within their reach and he dropped the ball by keeping McKenna in until the 5th goal... There must have been 5 posts on McKenna too including two right after one another.

Lehner played well when he came in but he has to watch his body language a bit better. We all know he is emotional but he let in a goal and was visibly upset which can ruin your team's comeback.

Out of the prospects I looked at only two in particular stood out...

Hoffman and Petersson. Petersson was clearly the most skilled player on the ice and could easily beat people one on one. However he was also the most wreckless player with the puck and constantly tried to do things on his own. I watched him try to deke out 3 players in the D-zone, lose the puck and cause a very good scoring chance. I wonder a bit about his hockey sense though it is clear he has superior puck possession skills. It could also contribute that he has no one to play with there...

Hoffman played very well. I think it was clear he has a great skillset and he made smart passes and good plays. I would like to see him shoot more because he does have a cannon of a shot but he does make it clear that he plays at an elite level.

Borowiecki I didn't notice to be honest...

Gryba was good though. His skating is nowhere near as bad as people paint it. I think he has a step up on Carkner. Wiercioch has a ways to go yet but its clear he has the athleticism to be a regular contributor at the NHL level. He needs to fill out majorly as he looks like a beanpole out there.

Finally Corey Locke's skating is horrible. We already knew that but the game up close made it clear to me he is not NHL material unless he improves his pivoting and overall speed.

Last thought: I am a Murray fan, but I think it is terrible that they couldn't bring in some solid veterans to help out the Bsens this year. A culture of winning is important and it is too bad that they are having such a poor year... The playoff experience that junior players could get if they got a chance to join would be valuable
IMO there are a few guys who will eventually make their way to Ottawa, next season I think O'Brien, Hoffman & Boroweicki have the best chance. Late next yr or the following yr I think that Wiercioch, Gryba, DD, Grant, Da Costa & Petersson if they are still around will get their opportunity. I guess it's obvious that Bingo miss the defence from last yr in Benoit, Smith & Kinrade.

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02-14-2012, 01:47 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
Hasn't he already beaten him?


oops you're right backstrom had 40, and now silfverberg has 41.

but yeah backstrom was younger, but still.

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02-14-2012, 01:48 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Wow. I assume Backstrom was at least 2 years younger though, right?
He was 18-19 the year he put up 40 (in 45 games).

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02-14-2012, 01:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
I would bet against that, they liked Gryba before & I don't see any reason why they still wouldn't like him & give him an opportunity. So many on here gave up on O'Brien & now that he is playing in Ottawa they are saying how good he loooks. So many on here were telling us how great Filatov would be in Ottawa & he has ended up in the KHL. Obviously Murray, the coaches, scouts & others who have a say in these things know what they want from the players. I just think it's too early to determine who makes it & who won't.
There's also some who think O'Brien's being showcased for a potential trade. I'm not sure O'Brien's got much of a future here either. And just because he isn't traded doesn't definitively mean that's not part of the reason he's playing.

Regardless of what people say I don't see Gryba and his skating playing on the Sens for very long.

This is part of the problem with your obsession for big players, a lot of them have little in terms of upside and a lot, not all, are very replaceable.

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02-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
There's also some who think O'Brien's being showcased for a potential trade. I'm not sure O'Brien's got much of a future here either. And just because he isn't traded doesn't definitively mean that's not part of the reason he's playing.

Regardless of what people say I don't see Gryba and his skating playing on the Sens for very long.

This is part of the problem with your obsession for big players, a lot of them have little in terms of upside and a lot, not all, are very replaceable.
It could also be that with Konopka & Winchester as UFAs this yr that they are seeing if O'Brien can replace them as the 4th line centre & he seems to be proving he can. Whether either scenario happens remains to be seen but IMO O'Brien has more to show in terms of upside & if he can start scoring or putting up pts the other two's fate are sealed.

This is part of the problem with people's obsession with little skilled players thinking that every one of them is going to be another Martin St Louis. Their skill may not be as great as some people would like to think & their lack of size reduces their chances to play in the NHL. They could be one hit away from having their careers ended because they aren't big enough to take the impact. It works both ways my friend.

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02-14-2012, 02:07 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by N Bahn Ahden View Post
He was 18-19 the year he put up 40 (in 45 games).
yeah but backstrom was a special talent, and we all know that since he has scored over 100p in NHL.

I dont think silfverberg will score 100, but he can be a 70-80p in NHL and that is not bad.

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02-14-2012, 02:12 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
It could also be that with Konopka & Winchester as UFAs this yr that they are seeing if O'Brien can replace them as the 4th line centre & he seems to be proving he can. Whether either scenario happens remains to be seen but IMO O'Brien has more to show in terms of upside & if he can start scoring or putting up pts the other two's fate are sealed.

This is part of the problem with people's obsession with little skilled players thinking that every one of them is going to be another Martin St Louis. Their skill may not be as great as some people would like to think & their lack of size reduces their chances to play in the NHL. They could be one hit away from having their careers ended because they aren't big enough to take the impact. It works both ways my friend.
No one said this. Just because you have an outspoken obsession of players that are likely to amount to nothing doesn't mean everyone else has to have an obsession on any side of the fence.

Good teams have good playeys, big and small.

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02-14-2012, 02:16 PM
  #50
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yeah but backstrom was a special talent, and we all know that since he has scored over 100p in NHL.

I dont think silfverberg will score 100, but he can be a 70-80p in NHL and that is not bad.
Do you realize how rare a 70-80 pt guy is in todays nhl? That's a pretty bold statement. "And that is not bad", like 70-80pt players grow on trees in todays NHL.

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