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Ladouceur having a hard time with Gomez during today's practice

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Old
02-14-2012, 03:41 PM
  #101
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
I would find it hard to fathom that the more competitive players on the team aren't getting a little more than sick of the non performers (Gomez) and under performers (insert whomever you'd like). At some point-if a coaching staff is to maintain its integrity with the players who matter (the performers)-something needs to be done.
Me, I would find it hard to fathom the players would be too pleased with the way the Randys have handled things so far. The players aren't idiots and if, at some point, the coach keeps managing his personnel ham-handedly, they're going to take notice.

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02-14-2012, 03:43 PM
  #102
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Interesting. I think this helps illustrate the difference between the two coaches.

Last game against Carolina was the one Gomez was hurt in. But it was also interesting because it was one where Martin made one of his trademark in-game adjustments that he never does. He noted Staal was shredding the team and switched the matchup so that Gomez would face him, and Gomez completely blanketed Staal until he had to leave the game.

Last night, Gomez played 9 minutes and stayed mostly on the bench, watching Staal shred the team.
So Martin would have sent Gomez to blanket Staal on his short handed goal, his power play assist and his empty net goal

I'm indifferent toward RC, but this example is absurd.

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02-14-2012, 03:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
So Martin would have sent Gomez to blanket Staal on his short handed goal, his power play assist and his empty net goal
No, but maybe he could have sent Gomez to blanket Staal so that the DD line could be freed up to play against the Canes' bottom-6 and score that killer goal that would've given the Habs a two-goal lead, rather than let them get smoked by Staal and Skinner. (And Plekanec, for that matter.) As it is, Staal outchanced both DD and Pleks to an extent that they were lucky Staal wasn't on the ice for more than one ESG.

The example isn't absurd, it just requires thinking a bit further than the immediate consequence, something which Martin certainly could do.

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02-14-2012, 03:48 PM
  #104
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Me, I would find it hard to fathom the players would be too pleased with the way the Randys have handled things so far. The players aren't idiots and if, at some point, the coach keeps managing his personnel ham-handedly, they're going to take notice.
I thought his management at the end of the game last night was atrocious. Gomez on the PP and Darche on a 4 on 4 in the waning moments makes little sense to me.

But, Darche and Plekanec have generated a few points together of late and Gomez had his streak breaker on the PP, so I guess there could be some reasonable justifications for these moves, but I still don't like them.

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02-14-2012, 03:49 PM
  #105
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happy valentines day

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02-14-2012, 03:50 PM
  #106
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http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=616859

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02-14-2012, 03:56 PM
  #107
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But, but... it's...Valentines day.

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02-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
No, but maybe he could have sent Gomez to blanket Staal so that the DD line could be freed up to play against the Canes' bottom-6 and score that killer goal that would've given the Habs a two-goal lead, rather than let them get smoked by Staal and Skinner. (And Plekanec, for that matter.) As it is, Staal outchanced both DD and Pleks to an extent that they were lucky Staal wasn't on the ice for more than one ESG.

The example isn't absurd, it just requires thinking a bit further than the immediate consequence, something which Martin certainly could do.
EVERY FORWARD will overwhelmingly outchance DD based on any shot-based analysis.

He's had 68 shots on goal all season. DD will be "outchanced" by any shot-based methodology by approximately a 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 ratio by anyone based on SOG and shots attempted. It's an absurdly inaccurate manner in which to judge his chances. He's always been and will always be pass first, pass second, pass third, shoot....hardly ever. To a fault often times. On the last PP of last night's games it was ridiculous that he didn't pull the trigger on two occasions.

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02-14-2012, 04:00 PM
  #109
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02-14-2012, 04:10 PM
  #110
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Not when they deserve it. Listen, you defend your players when outsiders say **** about them, but if they continue to underperform, a little fire is good for the team.
Deserved? The team had 8 shots halfway through the game! The whole damn team deserved to be thrown under the bus.
You mean to tell me AK is the only player that caused a turnover in the neutral zone that resulted in a goal? You and I both know that's not true. So why pretend like it is.
We scored 3 goals in 6 minutes yesterday. We applied some pressure in the third, but they still managed to come back and beat us.
We allowed 2 PP goals, neither Gomez or AK are used there.
We allowed 1 SH goal, AK doesn't play on the PP and it wasn't Gomez's fault.
We allowed 1 empty netter.
So, four of the five goals from Carolina had absolutely nothing to do with Gomez and especially AK, but he's going to focus on the turnover that happened in the neutral zone during one of them??? If that's not nitpicking then I don't know what is.

The defense deserves a lot more blame for this loss than Gomez and AK, it's not even close. But we all know who gets a slap on their hand.

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02-14-2012, 04:18 PM
  #111
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So... Someone is going to grow a pair and either make Gomez a healthy scratch, or buy him out this summer ?

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02-14-2012, 04:26 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
EVERY FORWARD will overwhelmingly outchance DD based on any shot-based analysis.
I'm not talking about shot-based analysis, I'm talking about Olivier's counting of individual scoring chances when both DD and Staal are on the ice, which can be found at the invaluable enattendantlesnordiques.blogspot.com . And when I say Staal outchanced DD, I really mean "the Hurricanes outchanced the Habs while Staal and DD were on the ice".

BTW, before you go about dissing "shot-based analysis" because DD doesn't shoot -- it's worthwhile to understand that unless we're talking about an individual player's direct goal-scoring, shot-based analysis is about shots attempted while a player is on the ice and not than just the shots the player individually takes. In DD's case this generally means Cole or Pacioretty shooting since, as you point out, he pretty much doesn't shoot. So Pacioretty's (a massive shot machine) shots count for both MaxPac and DD, reflecting that DD sets up MaxPac and MaxPac's possession ability hauls DD towards the offensive zone.

But I am not talking about shot analysis in this specific instance -- I am talking strictly about watch-the-game-and-count, shot-attempts-from-the-slot scoring chances. And Staal badly outchanced both Plekanec and DD at evens (unusual in Plekanec's case, I might add) which not only means threats to the Habs' net (one of which went in), but seriously limited both Habs' offensive opportunities.

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02-14-2012, 04:27 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Deserved? The team had 8 shots halfway through the game! The whole damn team deserved to be thrown under the bus.
You mean to tell me AK is the only player that caused a turnover in the neutral zone that resulted in a goal? You and I both know that's not true. So why pretend like it is.
We scored 3 goals in 6 minutes yesterday. We applied some pressure in the third, but they still managed to come back and beat us.
We allowed 2 PP goals, neither Gomez or AK are used there.
We allowed 1 SH goal, AK doesn't play on the PP and it wasn't Gomez's fault.
We allowed 1 empty netter.
So, four of the five goals from Carolina had absolutely nothing to do with Gomez and especially AK, but he's going to focus on the turnover that happened in the neutral zone during one of them??? If that's not nitpicking then I don't know what is.

The defense deserves a lot more blame for this loss than Gomez and AK, it's not even close. But we all know who gets a slap on their hand.
Hey he wasn't the only one, Kaberle needed a ***** slap too. I like AK. A lot. But when he's off, I'm okay with him being told he's off so he doesn't coast. I agree that Kaberle should've bagskated with Gomer and AK though.

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02-14-2012, 04:59 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Hey he wasn't the only one, Kaberle needed a ***** slap too. I like AK. A lot. But when he's off, I'm okay with him being told he's off so he doesn't coast. I agree that Kaberle should've bagskated with Gomer and AK though.
Well I disagree that AK coasted yesterday. The guy didn't even have the luxury to do so. He played 4 damn minutes. He had 2 shifts in the first period...I mean seriously what do you expect him to do when he plays less than 2min per period??
It's just ridiculous!

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02-14-2012, 05:03 PM
  #115
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Well I disagree that AK coasted yesterday. The guy didn't even have the luxury to do so. He played 4 damn minutes. He had 2 shifts in the first period...I mean seriously what do you expect him to do when he plays less than 2min per period??
It's just ridiculous!
Agreeed

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02-14-2012, 05:21 PM
  #116
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Winning the game last night was crucial. Not only because of the two precious points, not only because it would had been a 5th win in a row, but also because the team would had reached back the psychological .500 mark. + Carolina had came back in a game only ONCE (or never ?) throughout the whole year after trailing after 2 periods.

I am sick and tired to see ex-Habs coming and wiping their feet at the Bell (Halak, Muller, Spacek, Hamrlik...) and winning key games.

This team is very weak mentally with too few leaders and a very average d-men corp. I am sorry, but Price should had done more this year to really make the difference, especially when the team had a lead or is going in SO.

How come they are barely playing .500 hockey at home ? They are one of the worst in the whole league for that. Lack of courage ? Lack of stamina ? Lack of leadership ?
Lack of good coaching and good game plans ? Lack of size on D and on the wings for most part of the year ? Lack of focus by the goalies at key moments of the game ? Or simply overall lack of talent ? Lack of confidence for sure.


It's been a long, painful rollercoaster ride. And I hope it's gonna finish soon. Because, as many other fans, I'M gonna vomit for sure.

There are ways to loose games, but Habs have found the worst ways to do so, this season.

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02-14-2012, 05:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post

@zababes1:
Ladouceur and Gomer trading words at #Habs practice after Gomer messes up in drill
Maybe it's trending because the words "Gomez" and "traded" appear in the same tweet?

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02-14-2012, 05:31 PM
  #118
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Don't put the blame on Price. Roberto Luongo, Mikka Kiprusoff, Henrik Lundqvist and Ryan Miller all had yet to play 1 single NHL game at his age. He can only do so much by himself.

My main issue is how we hardly ever practices and when we do it'so nly for 30 minutes maybe 45 minutes. Don't give me the crap that they are professionals and know how to play and prepare themselves. Teamwork doesn't come magically, it comes by practicing with your teammates.

You hear the media blame Subban for being too itnense during trainings. For god sake, if we only had more players like him maybe we wouldn't be outperformed on a consistant basis?

I question whether our core of players really wants to win.

Factor in that Brian Gionta is a huge missing key this season....

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02-14-2012, 05:34 PM
  #119
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Don't put the blame on Price. Roberto Luongo, Mikka Kiprusoff, Henrik Lundqvist and Ryan Miller all had yet to play 1 single NHL game at his age. He can only do so much by himself.

My main issue is how we hardly ever practices and when we do it'so nly for 30 minutes maybe 45 minutes. Don't give me the crap that they are professionals and know how to play and prepare themselves. Teamwork doesn't come magically, it comes by practicing with your teammates.

You hear the media blame Subban for being too itnense during trainings. For god sake, if we only had more players like him maybe we wouldn't be outperformed on a consistant basis?

I question whether our core of players really wants to win.

Factor in that Brian Gionta is a huge missing key this season....
If it's the main factor, we are in deep **** !

There is loads of other factors to consider, starting with Markov's absence and the coaching change fiasco.

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02-14-2012, 05:41 PM
  #120
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So far in the laps Brian Gionta was missing, he would have added what 10 goals to the 9 he scored? He's the captain, his leadership is direly missing.

Markov's issue has to be on Gauthier's shoulder. Knowing that Markov wouldn,t be ready for the beginning of the season, he should of signed both Hamrlik and Wisniewski during the off season and trade Wisniewski once Markov is back from his injury.

Instead of having to trade Spacek to acquire Kaberle, we would of been set in defense and would of have a pretty good trading chip in Wisniewski.

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02-14-2012, 05:55 PM
  #121
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So far in the laps Brian Gionta was missing, he would have added what 10 goals to the 9 he scored? He's the captain, his leadership is direly missing.

Markov's issue has to be on Gauthier's shoulder. Knowing that Markov wouldn,t be ready for the beginning of the season, he should of signed both Hamrlik and Wisniewski during the off season and trade Wisniewski once Markov is back from his injury.

Instead of having to trade Spacek to acquire Kaberle, we would of been set in defense and would of have a pretty good trading chip in Wisniewski.
The price of signing Wisniewski would make him impossible to trade. We have 20x the chances of trading Kaberle with 2 years at 4.2 than Wisniewski at 5.5 for 5 more.

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02-14-2012, 05:59 PM
  #122
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The price of signing Wisniewski would make him impossible to trade. We have 20x the chances of trading Kaberle with 2 years at 4.2 than Wisniewski at 5.5 for 5 more.
If you can't get a deal, you pass him through the waivers at the very least you had a worthwhile defenseman until Markov's return instead of relying on 4 defenseman who had yet to play a full season?

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02-14-2012, 06:03 PM
  #123
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The price of signing Wisniewski would make him impossible to trade. We have 20x the chances of trading Kaberle with 2 years at 4.2 than Wisniewski at 5.5 for 5 more.
Except he wouldn't have gotten that if we re-signed him.

Columbus threw all that cash because he was going to July 1st without an absurd amount of money.

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02-14-2012, 06:08 PM
  #124
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No, but maybe he could have sent Gomez to blanket Staal so that the DD line could be freed up to play against the Canes' bottom-6 and score that killer goal that would've given the Habs a two-goal lead, rather than let them get smoked by Staal and Skinner. (And Plekanec, for that matter.) As it is, Staal outchanced both DD and Pleks to an extent that they were lucky Staal wasn't on the ice for more than one ESG.

The example isn't absurd, it just requires thinking a bit further than the immediate consequence, something which Martin certainly could do.
You really are hilarious. Send Gomez out to blanket Staal? Gomer is a horrible defensive forward or have you not watched him play. But I am sure you are right, Martin would have probably tried that.

Your blind love for Martin ignores his record over his last seven years. Including his last year in Ottawa, his teams won 249 out of 524 games. In other words, they won 48% of their games. Throughout his career, his teams have won less than 45% of the games that they have played.

Then there is his playoff record. Beginning with his first full season in Ottawa, his teams missed the playoffs three times, lost in the first round six times and lost in the second round twice in a period of thirteen years. If you go all the way back to when he began coaching the record his even worse.

His two "successful" runs were trips to the conference finals. One of those was due almost entirely to Halak but I imagine you will somehow argue that he out-coached his counterpart. Without that fluke run, his playoff record would have been one partially successful post season in sixteen years of coaching.

This is really the guy you want to defend as a superior coach. That is unbelievable.

I am not saying Cunneyworth is the answer but Martin, in my opinion, definitely wasn't.

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02-14-2012, 06:17 PM
  #125
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Except he wouldn't have gotten that if we re-signed him.

Columbus threw all that cash because he was going to July 1st without an absurd amount of money.
He had a career year and wasn't going to sign here cheap. For 4 mil/year I would have gladly kept him but his agent would have just laughed and hung up. Both the term and cap hit are bad in his deal...people whine at Markov getting 3 years well Wisniewski has had THREE ACL surgeries and got 6 years.

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