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The Flyers as Sellers?

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Old
02-14-2012, 11:44 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by LombardiTool View Post
This sounds to me like you should be buyers not sellers. All teams have holes right now. Get some d-man help and fine tune for the playoffs. Dont sell.

Once you are in the dance, you never know what can happen.
We need a BIG upgrade on defense, we need a guaranteed top pairing man, maybe upper echelon second pairing. A simple 4-5-6 defender won't fix our woes right now.

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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Not going to happen. I expect a big move.
Big move worries me. It could turn into being an overpayment that we'll all hate.

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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
O god help me. Unless we are ripping off Columbus again, please no big moves.
Yeah. Not sure Howson wants to track down that road again.

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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Trade Carle + 3rd for Ryan Ellis.
Trade a 2nd+ Wellwood for Grossman. Sign him for 3 mill per for 5 years
Trade 2nd for Gill. Sign for 1 year 2 mill

Timonen Coburn
Grossman Mez
Ellis Gill
Bourdon

Then go for Suter in off season. And if you get him, Gill becomes #6/7 And we all know injuries happen anyways!
No the the Ryan Ellis trade.
Grossman isn't bad but that 3 mil per may be a little much.
Not trading a 2nd for Gill at all.

Suter is looking as if he's more and more of a pipe dream right now.

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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
what is wrong with you people? Why would we dump any of those players? We're not sellers. We either don't make a move or we make a move for a better team. This is in no way the flyers style. Great teams don't dump players because they're not favorites to win the cup. Come playoff time all bets are off. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive and should look at the past as an example that we don't know who will do well in the playoffs.

Some people are looking towards the worst possible scenario and that's missing the playoffs and getting a middle of the road pick. I don't see how the deadline passes without us getting someone else for the back end. Weather that move be good enough or not good enough. We need top 3 talent, not top 4 even or bottom pairing.

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Old
02-14-2012, 11:45 AM
  #27
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
This whole statement is irrelevant because when this team gets out of its slump everyone's opinion will change. This team needs more depth at D. 2 rookies in our top 6 is not a good sign.
You're doing a disservice to most of the Flyers fans posting in this thread--who are far from the on-again, off-again bandwagoners you seem to imply.

I'm excited for the future of this team, but realistic about its chances this year. It isn't a matter of a "slump"--we aren't good enough to win a cup this year. We're good enough to get out of the first round, maybe, but probably not to progress further.

I agree that the Flyers won't trade off their assets (which is what I said in the text that you quoted)--if for no other reason than Snider's ego--but I think it is unwise to move our futures for short-term help.

To suggest that it's simply a matter of defensive depth seems to me to be far too shallow an analysis of this team's deficiencies. The four-non rookies have not played well enough either (Timonen mostly, but not wholly, excepted). Gill and Grossman won't be the difference between a 2nd round exit and a run to the finals.

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02-14-2012, 11:53 AM
  #28
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Flyers weren't sellers in that abomination of a season back in 2007, so I can't see them being sellers now or practically ever.

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Old
02-14-2012, 11:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by stygian16 View Post
Flyers weren't sellers in that abomination of a season back in 2007, so I can't see them being sellers now or practically ever.
Forsberg and Zhitnik were deadline-ish (mid-late February) deals moving veterans for young assets. I'd consider that sellers.

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Old
02-14-2012, 12:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
You're doing a disservice to most of the Flyers fans posting in this thread--who are far from the on-again, off-again bandwagoners you seem to imply.

I'm excited for the future of this team, but realistic about its chances this year. It isn't a matter of a "slump"--we aren't good enough to win a cup this year. We're good enough to get out of the first round, maybe, but probably not to progress further.

I agree that the Flyers won't trade off their assets (which is what I said in the text that you quoted)--if for no other reason than Snider's ego--but I think it is unwise to move our futures for short-term help.

To suggest that it's simply a matter of defensive depth seems to me to be far too shallow an analysis of this team's deficiencies. The four-non rookies have not played well enough either (Timonen mostly, but not wholly, excepted). Gill and Grossman won't be the difference between a 2nd round exit and a run to the finals.
Not disagreeing with you. As far as I can remember the Flyers were never favorites to win the cup this year. I'm just saying this franchise has an attitude that they are favorites to win every year.
As far as our defense is concerned...they are too small. No one on our back end has size except for Coburn and Mez (Who's not that big). Look at the goals we've been giving up. Wrap arounds, scrambles in front of the net, driving the net. It doesn't help that are forwards are not strong enough as well. This team needs size. When Pronger was playing 25min a night that problem was not as noticeable. But now size is our issue. I think Gill would help this team a ton. Do I think they will be favorites? no, but I suspect that we would see an improvement in their zone defense.

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02-14-2012, 01:09 PM
  #31
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I wuld like then to target D-men that have term left on their contract or one they would like to re-sign(like a Grossman). Not in favour of spending a secong on a player and then not re-signing them if they are a UFA.

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02-14-2012, 01:28 PM
  #32
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As a Ranger fan, I can't see the Flyers being sellers.

1. They're not that far behind the Rangers to the point where they're looking at missing the playoffs. However, Pittsburgh is a big concern... They're just plain scary. How many games do you guys have left against them?

2. I don't EVER recall Snyder being the seller type aside from 2007. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there.

3. I don't think you're going to get that much for someone like Carle or Briere. Timonen could net a nice return, but you really want to let go of your best defenseman (I'd argue him better than Pronger at this point) in the middle of a rebuild (if that's what you really want to do...) with Pronger's career being up in the air?

This is a pretty ridiculous thread. Thought I'd interject and give an outsider's perspective on things.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:34 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
As a Ranger fan, I can't see the Flyers being sellers.

1. They're not that far behind the Rangers to the point where they're looking at missing the playoffs. However, Pittsburgh is a big concern... They're just plain scary. How many games do you guys have left against them?

2. I don't EVER recall Snyder being the seller type aside from 2007. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there.

3. I don't think you're going to get that much for someone like Carle or Briere. Timonen could net a nice return, but you really want to let go of your best defenseman (I'd argue him better than Pronger at this point) in the middle of a rebuild (if that's what you really want to do...) with Pronger's career being up in the air?

This is a pretty ridiculous thread. Thought I'd interject and give an outsider's perspective on things.
1 - Four left against the Penguins.

2 - I wouldn't call that an actual sell. We really only made two deals.

3 - Carle could net a first, albeit a late first but it's possible. Depending for the need of a decent puck moving defender, that plays the PP but has no shot when on the PP. There's also an outside shot Timonen may call it quits after this season. He's winding down. I don't see Briere even being approached to waive his NMC and even if he was, I'd be shocked if he said yes to waiving it. Issues with custody with his ex wife.

I agree.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
1 - Four left against the Penguins.

2 - I wouldn't call that an actual sell. We really only made two deals.

3 - Carle could net a first, albeit a late first but it's possible. Depending for the need of a decent puck moving defender, that plays the PP but has no shot when on the PP. There's also an outside shot Timonen may call it quits after this season. He's winding down. I don't see Briere even being approached to waive his NMC and even if he was, I'd be shocked if he said yes to waiving it. Issues with custody with his ex wife.

I agree.
1. Ouch, I wouldn't want to play them right now.

2. Any selling by the Flyers is counterproductive. All they need is consistency in net and on defense. They could easily get hot and go far.

3. I agree with you on Briere on why he wont move, dont think hell fetch that much with how hes played this season, but you basically said why I don't think Carle wouldn't get a 1st. He's a puck moving offensive defenseman that doesn't put up the numbers he should. I don't think Timonen would agree to leaving Philly either.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
1. Ouch, I wouldn't want to play them right now.

2. Any selling by the Flyers is counterproductive. All they need is consistency in net and on defense. They could easily get hot and go far.

3. I agree with you on Briere on why he wont move, dont think hell fetch that much with how hes played this season, but you basically said why I don't think Carle wouldn't get a 1st. He's a puck moving offensive defenseman that doesn't put up the numbers he should. I don't think Timonen would agree to leaving Philly either.
1- Yeah, I'm worried right now. Pens scare me.

2 - Agreed again. But the links we're being pointed too, such as bottom pairing defender won't necessarily help us as much as people think.

3- Briere is cold as ice, he has 2 goals the last 22 games I believe it's at now. He's also been bad in every other aspect of the game. Teams get desperate and if they really need a Matt Carle, a late first is not out of the question. I also agree with Timonen, I don't even think he'd be asked to waive.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:55 PM
  #36
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I'd love to see them move up in the draft and get a good home grown defenseman

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02-14-2012, 01:58 PM
  #37
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I'd love to see them move up in the draft and get a good home grown defenseman
We would most likely completely damage him from the start.

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Old
02-14-2012, 03:20 PM
  #38
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Article written in the NY Times in 2010 after the Flyers eliminated the Rangers from the playoffs about revenue lost explains why Ed Snider will not even harbor the thought of selling. Even with revenue sharing, pay outs to the NHL etc the money to be made is still there. Keeping Carle and Briere may not mean we make it to the Stanley Cup but it might mean we make it an extra round which financially speaking for the organization makes it worth it.

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02-14-2012, 03:57 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by kook17 View Post
Article written in the NY Times in 2010 after the Flyers eliminated the Rangers from the playoffs about revenue lost explains why Ed Snider will not even harbor the thought of selling. Even with revenue sharing, pay outs to the NHL etc the money to be made is still there. Keeping Carle and Briere may not mean we make it to the Stanley Cup but it might mean we make it an extra round which financially speaking for the organization makes it worth it.
This.

However, I think people get desperate around here and start calling for trades, but I never thought this team was ready for a cup run. But we were better than I thought this season. Actually, if Pronger would have not gone down, we might be fighting for first again. The fact is we have 3 of the top 10 rookies in the league with some other promising prospects and our core is young. unfortunately, This team is a work in progress.

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Old
02-14-2012, 04:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
This.

However, I think people get desperate around here and start calling for trades, but I never thought this team was ready for a cup run. But we were better than I thought this season. Actually, if Pronger would have not gone down, we might be fighting for first again. The fact is we have 3 of the top 10 rookies in the league with some other promising prospects and our core is young. unfortunately, This team is a work in progress.
You are correct. This team is a work in progress. A work in progress with seven top-9 forwards 25 or younger. This is not the kind of team where you want a 34 year old Danny Briere clogging up 6.5M in cap space.

This is also not a team that you can "just be patient" with. Our top two defensemen are 36 and 37. One of them may never play again and the other one is rumored to be retiring after next season.

This is exactly the kind of team that needs to be selling this season in order to maximize the future.

Who cares if it is realistic or not or whether or not Ed Snider will do it? Unrealistic things are discussed here every single day.

Why not talk about what would actually be best for the Flyers?

And I do not quite see how someone can stay that standing pat is best for the Flyers. If next year is Timonen's last and Pronger is done for his career, this team has a large problem that could prevent them from contending for the next four years.

So you need to decide whether you think this team is more likely to win a championship with Briere as a large piece this year, or in the next five to six years with Couturier, Schenn, JVR, and others in their prime.

I have already written this season off. The defense without Pronger is horrendous. Carle is playing with a rookie fringe NHL defenseman that cannot mask his deficiencies at all, Coburn is playing like a sixth defenseman, Meszaros has not been much better than Coburn, and the only one who is playing well is 37 year old Kimmo Timonen who just cannot handle 25 minutes per night and is not physical enough or big enough to shut down opposing teams.

Any trades that make us better for next year should certainly be considered. And I think exploring a trade of Briere could certainly make us better.

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Old
02-14-2012, 05:17 PM
  #41
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I think exploring a trade of Briere could certainly make us better.
I think the majority of Flyers fans would say yes to moving Briere but as others have said he has a NMC and is in the middle of a custody battle. I very much doubt he would waive his clause.

Personally I wouldn't move anyone other then Briere, if for some reason he agreed to waive, but i wouldn't buy either. As other have said a big move most likely means flyers overpay while a smaller move like acquiring a #4/5 guy doesn't do enough for the team and I'd much rather keep all the picks in this deep draft.

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02-14-2012, 05:57 PM
  #42
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I think the majority of Flyers fans would say yes to moving Briere but as others have said he has a NMC and is in the middle of a custody battle. I very much doubt he would waive his clause.

Personally I wouldn't move anyone other then Briere, if for some reason he agreed to waive, but i wouldn't buy either. As other have said a big move most likely means flyers overpay while a smaller move like acquiring a #4/5 guy doesn't do enough for the team and I'd much rather keep all the picks in this deep draft.

There is no custody battle. He and his wife have shared custody they have agreed to it and it's filed with and approved by the courts.

If he were traded to a destination that was agreeable to both he and his wife, like Montreal where they are both originally from, I am sure he would agree to waive.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:39 PM
  #43
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What would the flyers want for Carle or Coburn we need a dman to play on the second pp unit and can post 20 minutes.

Carle for Gill plus pick would it be possible?

Brière for Gomez

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:49 PM
  #44
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Matt Read + JVR + Hartnell for Oduya + Enstrom + Machacek + 2nd rounder

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02-14-2012, 06:58 PM
  #45
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Matt Read + JVR + Hartnell for Oduya + Enstrom + Machacek + 2nd rounder
lol not sure if serious.

3 top 6 wingers for essentially Enstrom?

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02-14-2012, 06:59 PM
  #46
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lol not sure if serious.

3 top 6 wingers for essentially Enstrom?
Not really, didnt think about it just listed off three flyers I'd want and then put up the D the Jets would be willing to part with. Haha. I don't think the Flyers would take Buff but you'd probably need him to make it a fair deal.

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02-14-2012, 07:02 PM
  #47
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That's crazy they are 7th overall, now sure they might make some trades but calling them to be sellers is nuts. Just make the playoffs and anything can happen. Hell if you guys got to the cup final with the likes of Leighton as a tender anything can happen.

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02-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  #48
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It shows again that the only thing he cares about is money...
Pittsburgh offered more money to Jagr. Doubt it was a financial thing.

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02-14-2012, 10:46 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
1- Yeah, I'm worried right now. Pens scare me.

2 - Agreed again. But the links we're being pointed too, such as bottom pairing defender won't necessarily help us as much as people think.

3- Briere is cold as ice, he has 2 goals the last 22 games I believe it's at now. He's also been bad in every other aspect of the game. Teams get desperate and if they really need a Matt Carle, a late first is not out of the question. I also agree with Timonen, I don't even think he'd be asked to waive.
Yeah but if they could just get more consistency from their defense in general, and either one of the two goaltenders starts showing some consistency, things could change. I think you look internally first, then try to go to external measures, and then last resort is selling.

I don't even think with desperation that anyone would offer up a 1st for Matt Carle. Stranger things have happened at the deadline. The Rangers shipped off Tony Amonte for Noonan and Matteau... enough said.

Yeah, Timonen won't ask. His family has to be rooted there now, and I don't see him wanting to leave in the first place. Not happening at all.

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Old
02-14-2012, 11:14 PM
  #50
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I can't wait until Briere goes on another tear these playoffs and the same Flyer fans who want to move him every year around this time look like fools again.

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