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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread IV

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02-14-2012, 05:08 PM
  #976
arrbez
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Jeremy Lin who?


Inglewood selects the original Asian Sensation. Hailing from a town on China's eastern border, and repping Siberia hard. Over 1,000 career points, a two-time allstar at RW, and a guy who plays pretty well with Pat Lafontaine.

Legendary Albany River Rat:

Alexander Mogilny


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02-14-2012, 05:13 PM
  #977
Jafar
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1893 Montreal AAA are proud to select RW Larry Aurie

( listpick for godmademe )

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02-14-2012, 05:15 PM
  #978
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10 wingers in a row. Will it be eleven?

AlMo is a great fit for Lafontaine. AlMo is great with the right centre and an MLDer with the wrong centre. So getting him the right centre is absolutely critical.

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02-14-2012, 05:20 PM
  #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
10 wingers in a row. Will it be eleven?

AlMo is a great fit for Lafontaine. AlMo is great with the right centre and an MLDer with the wrong centre. So getting him the right centre is absolutely critical.
He's still an ATD'er without Lafontaine on whatever 2nd line.

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02-14-2012, 05:22 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
10 wingers in a row. Will it be eleven?

AlMo is a great fit for Lafontaine. AlMo is great with the right centre and an MLDer with the wrong centre. So getting him the right centre is absolutely critical.
They're also a great example of how the ATD line-building canon isn't always right.

If they had never played together, you can almost guarantee that people would be all over that combo for a perceived lack of playmaking.

Just something for everyone (myself included) to keep in mind. Sublimely talented players can *usually* adapt to their situation quite well.

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02-14-2012, 05:28 PM
  #981
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just looking at who we had in the last MLD (or in MLD 2010, which followed a 32-team draft), Mogilny would be grossly overqualified to even be the 1st overall pick in that draft.

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02-14-2012, 05:33 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
just looking at who we had in the last MLD (or in MLD 2010, which followed a 32-team draft), Mogilny would be grossly overqualified to even be the 1st overall pick in that draft.
Thats right. Take away the two disaster years in Vancouver (where the team and organization around him was a joke) he had a very impressive career.

EDIT: wait...what? Are you saying Mogilny isn't good enough to go 1st overall in the MLD?

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02-14-2012, 05:36 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Thats right. Take away the two disaster years in Vancouver (where the team and organization around him was a joke) he had a very impressive career.
Eh, I think it's more that Mogilny has had 3 really good nonconsecutive seasons in his career surrounded by mediocrity. He was really freaking good for those 3 seasons though.

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02-14-2012, 05:38 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Eh, I think it's more that Mogilny has had 3 really good nonconsecutive seasons in his career surrounded by mediocrity. He was really freaking good for those 3 seasons though.
I count 9 seasons that suggest ATD worthy...and then 4 or 5 poor seasons.

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02-14-2012, 05:51 PM
  #985
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1000th!



Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
They're also a great example of how the ATD line-building canon isn't always right.

If they had never played together, you can almost guarantee that people would be all over that combo for a perceived lack of playmaking.

Just something for everyone (myself included) to keep in mind. Sublimely talented players can *usually* adapt to their situation quite well.
herb lewis, larry aurie and marty barry are another case.

aurie and barry scored more goals than assists, and lewis was close to even in goals and assists.


i had this sort of argument about my line of r conacher - ullman - howe. conacher was once 2nd in assists, ullman had basically the same career goals/assists ratio as abel, howe was in top 5 in assists 17 times (and in top 10 22 consecutive times!), and ullman was C for howe and lindsay in '57, but the line was criticized for lacking playmaking and being rebound-oriented.

obviously, when conacher played with cowley his stats would be biased towards goals, but he was not a bad playmaker.

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02-14-2012, 05:52 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
They're also a great example of how the ATD line-building canon isn't always right.

If they had never played together, you can almost guarantee that people would be all over that combo for a perceived lack of playmaking.

Just something for everyone (myself included) to keep in mind. Sublimely talented players can *usually* adapt to their situation quite well.
I tend to agree, and it wouldn't surprise me if I get *****ed at for it with the guy I'm about to select to center Tkachuk.

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02-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
They're also a great example of how the ATD line-building canon isn't always right.

If they had never played together, you can almost guarantee that people would be all over that combo for a perceived lack of playmaking.

Just something for everyone (myself included) to keep in mind. Sublimely talented players can *usually* adapt to their situation quite well.
Jeff Carter and a certain first line winger that plays on Columbus come to mind. i think there have been unusual circumstances surrounding that situation, but it is an example of how two talented players won't always mesh well together.

I think the whole point is that, if a player is talented enough, they can adjust their game to take advantage of a linemate who is also very talented. I think this is also what is happening with Lupul and Kessel. Kessel has evolved his game to take advantage of a player who is also quite a good goalscorer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Thats right. Take away the two disaster years in Vancouver (where the team and organization around him was a joke) he had a very impressive career.

EDIT: wait...what? Are you saying Mogilny isn't good enough to go 1st overall in the MLD?
No, he's saying that Mogilny would be so overpowered in the MLD that it would give the team that drafted him a massive advantage over anyone else.


Last edited by jarek: 02-14-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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02-14-2012, 05:56 PM
  #988
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hey guys God Made Me was kind enough to leave me this list: Larry Aurie, RW


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02-14-2012, 05:56 PM
  #989
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Quote:
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No, he's saying that Mogilny would be so overpowered in the MLD that it would give the team that drafted him a massive advantage over anyone else.
Damn straight. A lot of people consider Mogilny the better player overall than Bure (I don't think it's too crazy to suggest that).

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02-14-2012, 06:14 PM
  #990
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
He's still an ATD'er without Lafontaine on whatever 2nd line.
Without Lafontaine, yes, without a speedy puck carrying centre, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
just looking at who we had in the last MLD (or in MLD 2010, which followed a 32-team draft), Mogilny would be grossly overqualified to even be the 1st overall pick in that draft.
Yeah, last MLD is a misrepresentation.

He has three years with top 10 in scoring. All with lines that could skate with him. Even if it's not Lafontaine, or Elias, or Hawerchuk. If his linemates can't skate with him. He's pretty much dead weight.

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02-14-2012, 06:16 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
He has three years with top 10 in scoring. All with lines that could skate with him. Even if it's not Lafontaine, or Elias, or Hawerchuk. If his linemates can't skate with him. He's pretty much dead weight.
You should take a look at his 95-96 mates.

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02-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #992
Nalyd Psycho
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
You should take a look at his 95-96 mates.
Cliff Ronning? My point exactly. It is not coincidence that his production was cut in half when Ronning was replaced by Messier. Skill set is more important than skill level when pairing with AlMo.

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02-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Without Lafontaine, yes, without a speedy puck carrying centre, no.


Yeah, last MLD is a misrepresentation.

He has three years with top 10 in scoring. All with lines that could skate with him. Even if it's not Lafontaine, or Elias, or Hawerchuk. If his linemates can't skate with him. He's pretty much dead weight.
It would be interesting to discuss the hypothetical worst line combo you could make out of three traditional scoring-line ATD players.

EDIT

forget Mogilny, it would clearly be


Anyone - Esposito - Bure


A "worst team comprised of players who belong in that role" would be a fun/absurd little project. Have legit first liners on your first line, legit 3rd liners on the third line, etc. But see who could make the most dysfunctional squad.


Last edited by arrbez: 02-14-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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02-14-2012, 06:20 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
It would be interesting to discuss the hypothetical worst line combo you could make out of three traditional scoring-line ATD players.

Something like

Shutt - Esposito - Mogilny
Stewart-Esposito-Mogilny

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02-14-2012, 06:21 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Cliff Ronning? My point exactly. It is not coincidence that his production was cut in half when Ronning was replaced by Messier. Skill set is more important than skill level when pairing with AlMo.
Well, yeah. But Mogilny was the one carrying the line, not Ronning. The same can be said about many, many players in the ATD that they need to be paired up with skill.

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02-14-2012, 06:22 PM
  #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Stewart-Esposito-Mogilny
Stewart-Esposito-Richard

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02-14-2012, 06:23 PM
  #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
It would be interesting to discuss the hypothetical worst line combo you could make out of three traditional scoring-line ATD players.

EDIT

forget Mogilny, it would clearly be


Anyone - Esposito - Bure
kovalchuk - nels stewart - babe dye

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02-14-2012, 06:24 PM
  #998
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Quote:
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Stewart-Esposito-Richard
Richard would still score.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Well, yeah. But Mogilny was the one carrying the line, not Ronning. The same can be said about many, many players in the ATD that they need to be paired up with skill.
While AlMo was the best player, it was his ability to connect with Ronning that allowed him to play at an elite level.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-15-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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02-14-2012, 06:25 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
kovalchuk - nels stewart - babe dye
****. It's a good thing I have guys like Forsberg and Smith to hold these lines together

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02-14-2012, 06:32 PM
  #1000
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****. It's a good thing I have guys like Forsberg and Smith to hold these lines together
i forgot you had stewart and kovalchuk. you don't have dye, though, do you?

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