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Could the Flyers be interested in Nash?

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Old
02-14-2012, 05:23 PM
  #151
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I do think this whole Nash thing comes from the meeting between Homer and Howson. In the end, it is speculation. They dont have any other players, but maybe their looking at defense? They have Wiz and Martinek, but they are either hurt or not playing well. Their defense is horrendous. Yea, Carle is ****** defensively, but I can see them looking at Carle anyway. (I know they arent buying, but maybe this is the assumption that Carle would resign? I guess this is farfetched, but trying to think of another reason for Howson and Homer meeting).

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02-14-2012, 05:31 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia View Post
If we traded anything of value for Rick Nash, I would be even more upset than the day we traded both Richie and Carter.

If Nash cost 5-6 million (because that's the kind of money a Rick Nash should be making) for 2-3 years then cool. 8 MILLION? FOR THE REST OF HIS CAREER? FOR A 65 POINT PLAYER? Absolute falderal.

"But Nash has never played with a center... but he won the Rocket 7 years ago with 40 goals.. but..but..." blah blah blah. Playing with nobody never stopped Ilya Kovalchuk from putting up 50 goals and 90 points. The crutches people have to use for Rick Nash are pathetic.

If I was given the option to take Rick Nash, his 65 points, and his 8 million cap hit for FREE I would not do it. I do not want 8 million in cap held hostage by a glorified 65 point player. As it is we have goalie holding money hostage until he's 40.
Yeah that's why I want New York to get him. Spend the last few years building a core of good young players then when they finally start coming together they swing for the fences with a guy like Nash that ruins their chemistry and burdens the franchise for years.

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02-14-2012, 05:36 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Flipadelphia View Post
If we traded anything of value for Rick Nash, I would be even more upset than the day we traded both Richie and Carter.

If Nash cost 5-6 million (because that's the kind of money a Rick Nash should be making) for 2-3 years then cool. 8 MILLION? FOR THE REST OF HIS CAREER? FOR A 65 POINT PLAYER? Absolute falderal.

"But Nash has never played with a center... but he won the Rocket 7 years ago with 40 goals.. but..but..." blah blah blah. Playing with nobody never stopped Ilya Kovalchuk from putting up 50 goals and 90 points. The crutches people have to use for Rick Nash are pathetic.

If I was given the option to take Rick Nash, his 65 points, and his 8 million cap hit for FREE I would not do it. I do not want 8 million in cap held hostage by a glorified 65 point player. As it is we have goalie holding money hostage until he's 40.
Ilya Kovalchuk played with Marc Savard, Marian Hossa, and Slava Kozlov(71 and 80 pt seasons in 05-06 and 06-07). Not the same situation at all. He also went against Detroit(Great defensive forwards and Lidstrom), Nashville(Suter/Weber), and Chicago(Keith/Seabrook) over the past 3-5 seasons and Nash literally had ZERO help in Columbus so he faced all the tough match ups.Not exactly the same as playing in the South East.

I agree it doesn't make the most sense either but Nash would put 80-90 points next to Giroux and with the depth behind him.


Last edited by duffy9748: 02-14-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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02-14-2012, 05:37 PM
  #154
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No way we are getting Nash. I do not believe it for a second.

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02-14-2012, 05:40 PM
  #155
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There is no way we are getting him, could afford him at 7.8 mill a year, and no way I would want him here as he would cripple our team cap wise while we are already crippled.

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02-14-2012, 05:42 PM
  #156
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what the heck, the flyers should just trade until they have the best offense in the history of the league

get rid of bob and bryz

maybe we can keep the puck in the other team's zone so long they never get a chance to take a shot on leighton

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02-14-2012, 05:43 PM
  #157
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Unless we flip him right away to get Weber or Suter I don't want that 8mil/year contract

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02-14-2012, 05:45 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
what the heck, the flyers should just trade until they have the best offense in the history of the league

get rid of bob and bryz

maybe we can keep the puck in the other team's zone so long they never get a chance to take a shot on leighton


Your solution to every problem is "get rid of Bob and Bryz." Do tell, what's your fantastic solution for goaltending once they're gone? Leighton and Bachahahaiahdiasha?

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02-14-2012, 05:46 PM
  #159
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Another big thing in acquiring Nash, maybe the GM's are aware that the cap might be going up to a higher number then originally thought? I don't believe their will be a lockout, especially with the huge attraction going on in the Big House next year. That will work wonders for the NHL and it's rating plus it revenue. Just throwing some stuff out there, we never know what is going on anyway!

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02-14-2012, 05:47 PM
  #160
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Not trying to fan the flames here, but D Leed has reported that Gauthier (Canadians GM) has been at a lot of Flyers games lately. He was reportedly at the Flyers Rangers game and Howson (Columbus GM) was also there.

I think everyone here likes the idea of having Rick Nash, but everyone keeps balking at the cap hit. If we could somehow get rid of Danny Briere, I think most would have no problem taking Rick Nash on. Enter the Montreal Canadians and Gauthier. Danny Briere is from the Montreal area. He still maintains a home in the Montreal area. During his free agency, he was deciding between Philadelphia and Montreal. Briere's (ex) wife is also from Canada. So it would seem to be a natural move for everyone.

Just trying to put the pieces together.

If we traded Briere to Montreal, what could we expect in return? I figure one piece would have to be Hal Gill.

If you add Hall Gill and Rick Nash to this team, all the sudden you've gotten a whole lot bigger and added some snarl.

But how much would we have to give up to get Nash?

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02-14-2012, 05:50 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post


Your solution to every problem is "get rid of Bob and Bryz." Do tell, what's your fantastic solution for goaltending once they're gone? Leighton and Bachahahaiahdiasha?
Chechmanek? Can he still play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Ilya Kovalchuk played with Marc Savard, Marian Hossa, and Slava Kozlov(71 and 80 pt seasons in 05-06 and 06-07). Not the same situation at all. He also went against Detroit(Great defensive forwards and Lidstrom), Nashville(Suter/Weber), and Chicago(Keith/Seabrook) over the past 3-5 seasons and Nash literally had ZERO help in Columbus so he faced all the tough match ups.Not exactly the same as playing in the South East.

I agree it doesn't make the most sense either but Nash would put 80-90 points next to Giroux and with the depth behind him.
ERRRRRRRR

Yes, Kovalchuk played with Savard and they were dynamite up until he left in 06 (and Kovlachuk continued to score at top level with less than spectacular players surrounding him), but Kovalchuk never played with Hossa outside of occasional PP time.

Kovlachuk put up 42, 52, 43 and 31 (half season) goals and 80 + points with the likes of Todd White and Eric Perrin. Todd White had a career year with Kovalchuk. THAT'S what elite players do, they bring the players they play with up.

Going up against Suter/Weber and Keith/Seabrook would be valid, but what about before they developed into World Class players 2 years ago? Nash was still producing at the same exact rate in 2004 as he is now.

Kovalchuk and Nash are very similar, but also very different. Both were young, hit the scene around the same time, were looked at as goal scoring dynamos, and both were the faces of fresh franchises. Kovlachuk lived up to the billing on the ice and was all that and a bag of chips. Whether it was playing with a seasoned playmaker in Savard or a 3rd line center in White, nobody has ever had to use the "Ilya has been lackluster and underwhelming because of who he plays with" crutch.

Both had inept management putting the wrong pieces around them and both guy's upper management created a dumpster fire, but Kovalchuk wanted to be around a winning environment so he left. Nash wanted to *stay and win in Columbus* AKA take 8 million dollars to piss his career away in mediocrity. If Nash wanted to win in Columbus, he'd take a home town discount at what at a rate he deserves so he could help the cause... not take an undeserved 2 million dollar increase.

Don't get me wrong, Nash is a very very good player who any team would want to have... but his 8 million salary is an albatross and I don't think teams are gonna be lining up to bail out Columbus like some think.

If Nash wasn't making 8, I would want him for certain. However, we cannot separate the player from his salary.


Last edited by El Dandy*: 02-14-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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02-14-2012, 05:50 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
Not trying to fan the flames here, but D Leed has reported that Gauthier (Canadians GM) has been at a lot of Flyers games lately. He was reportedly at the Flyers Rangers game and Howson (Columbus GM) was also there.

I think everyone here likes the idea of having Rick Nash, but everyone keeps balking at the cap hit. If we could somehow get rid of Danny Briere, I think most would have no problem taking Rick Nash on. Enter the Montreal Canadians and Gauthier. Danny Briere is from the Montreal area. He still maintains a home in the Montreal area. During his free agency, he was deciding between Philadelphia and Montreal. Briere's (ex) wife is also from Canada. So it would seem to be a natural move for everyone.

Just trying to put the pieces together.

If we traded Briere to Montreal, what could we expect in return? I figure one piece would have to be Hal Gill.

If you add Hall Gill and Rick Nash to this team, all the sudden you've gotten a whole lot bigger and added some snarl.

But how much would we have to give up to get Nash?
Best foundation for us would be that it's built around JVR and Bob. I think that gets it done with picks added and maybe Carle for cap reasons. I hope Schenn and Couturier stay. I am a big fan of JVR but with all the young guys we have, he is expendable.

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02-14-2012, 05:52 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post


Your solution to every problem is "get rid of Bob and Bryz." Do tell, what's your fantastic solution for goaltending once they're gone? Leighton and Bachahahaiahdiasha?
did you read the second part of my post where i said

"maybe we can keep the puck in the other team's zone so long they never get a chance to take a shot on leighton"


Last edited by Hollywood Couturier: 02-14-2012 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Mod Edit.
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02-14-2012, 06:01 PM
  #164
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02-14-2012, 06:05 PM
  #165
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I just posed this in the Trade Rumors thread, but it seems more relevant here...

Setting aside the issue of whether Nash is "worth" his cap hit, can someone show me practically how his presence on our roster would even work under the cap? (Assuming, as I think is fair, that Briere will not waive to go to Columbus).

I don't see it, at all. Without working out the hypotheticals, though, it would seem to require letting both Jagr and Carle walk... and then dropping Pronger on LTIR without signing a significant replacement.

In 2 minutes on capgeek, this is what I came up with:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.000m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
/ / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,713,373; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): -$5,413,373


I realize that there are some oddities in there--Schenn's hit should come down, right? It is inflated because this is the last year of the CBA. I gave Voracek a modest raise from 2.25 to 3.00, though I expect him to be a bit higher than that. MAB also needs a mandatory raise, I think, but it isn't a significant number.

Still, what am I missing that this is even being entertained as possible...?

EDIT / Addition: Obviously something would be going to Columbus for Nash... but the most likely assets (Schenn, Couturier, JVR, Bob, aren't our big cap hits anyway...)

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02-14-2012, 06:14 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I just posed this in the Trade Rumors thread, but it seems more relevant here...

Setting aside the issue of whether Nash is "worth" his cap hit, can someone show me practically how his presence on our roster would even work under the cap? (Assuming, as I think is fair, that Briere will not waive to go to Columbus).

I don't see it, at all. Without working out the hypotheticals, though, it would seem to require letting both Jagr and Carle walk... and then dropping Pronger on LTIR without signing a significant replacement.

In 2 minutes on capgeek, this is what I came up with:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.000m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
/ / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,713,373; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): -$5,413,373


I realize that there are some oddities in there--Schenn's hit should come down, right? It is inflated because this is the last year of the CBA.

Still, what am I missing that this is even being entertained as possible...?
My post like 3 posts up explains it pretty well.

Just for a short recap, Montreal's GM was also at the Flyers Rangers game that Howson was at and he has in fact been at several other flyers games.

Something like Briere to Montreal for Hal Gill+ and then ??? to Columbus for Rick Nash could end up working out quite nicely for us.

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02-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
My post like 3 posts up explains it pretty well.

Just for a short recap, Montreal's GM was also at the Flyers Rangers game that Howson was at and he has in fact been at several other flyers games.

Something like Briere to Montreal for Hal Gill+ and then ??? to Columbus for Rick Nash could end up working out quite nicely for us.
Yeah... sorry, I saw that, but I don't think Danny will waive. I'm fairly sure he won't actually, and if he did, I sort of doubt Montreal would be his choice (back to Buffalo is more likely).

Unless you're suggesting that the only way this is plausible is if Danny waives his NTC first (since, any deal made after acquiring Nash would put us in an awful bargaining position). In that case, I agree.

My point, perhaps ineffectively made, was that we can't acquire Nash without moving Briere, which we can't seem to do.

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02-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #168
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There is no freaking way in HELL Briere is going to Montreal. Just get that idea out of your head.

Getting Nash seems less crazy comparing to Briere to Montreal suggestions.

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02-14-2012, 06:19 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Still, what am I missing that this is even being entertained as possible...?

EDIT / Addition: Obviously something would be going to Columbus for Nash... but the most likely assets (Schenn, Couturier, JVR, Bob, aren't our big cap hits anyway...)
My best guess is JVR and Bob to Columbus, Pronger to LTIR, and for the love of God get rid of Shelley. That should be enough to make it work (I put the cap up $1 million and gave Jagr a slight reduction in pay since he seemed to hint he would do so to make it work)...

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.200m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
/ / Tom Sestito ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.900m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Nicklas Grossman ($2.625m)
/ Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Niko Hovinen ($0.950m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $65,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,241,944; BONUSES: $2,805,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $58,056


Not sure if we would go after Grossman or if he would be available, but there was room for a defenseman and I think they pretty much are going to have to get someone if Pronger is on LTIR.

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02-14-2012, 06:21 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
My post like 3 posts up explains it pretty well.

Just for a short recap, Montreal's GM was also at the Flyers Rangers game that Howson was at and he has in fact been at several other flyers games.

Something like Briere to Montreal for Hal Gill+ and then ??? to Columbus for Rick Nash could end up working out quite nicely for us.
Can't just push Couturier out onto the streets like that. Have some heart, man.

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02-14-2012, 06:21 PM
  #171
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Really? I wonder why the hell did he get that contract then. I guess you are juuuuuuuuuuuust a little smarter than our GM.

Was Heatley was worth Michalek 3 years ago?
Sorry it took me so long to get back at ... I mean to you.

My hesitation with JvR is that he has pretty much lost the entire season due to injury, so there has been zero chance to evaluate if he could build on his stellar playoff performance of last season. As the injury(ies) happened after the contract signing, the two are mutually exclusive.

I don't know if I'm smarter than Holmgren. I'll wait on his call to play a few games of Trivial Pursuit.

Sure, Heatley was was worth Michalek at the time. It was a good deal for both teams, IMHO.

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02-14-2012, 06:22 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
My best guess is JVR and Bob to Columbus, Pronger to LTIR, and for the love of God get rid of Shelley. That should be enough to make it work (I put the cap up $1 million and gave Jagr a slight reduction in pay since he seemed to hint he would do so to make it work)...

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.200m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
/ / Tom Sestito ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.900m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Nicklas Grossman ($2.625m)
/ Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Niko Hovinen ($0.950m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $65,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,241,944; BONUSES: $2,805,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $58,056


Not sure if we would go after Grossman or if he would be available, but there was room for a defenseman and I think they pretty much are going to have to get someone if Pronger is on LTIR.
Thanks.

That's sort of in line with what I was thinking would have to happen--and that blue-line is scary-bad.

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02-14-2012, 06:30 PM
  #173
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I'm not suggesting that we are in on any Nash talk, BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOLY HOMER, CAN YOU JUST LEAVE THE ****ING TEAM AS IT IS FOR ONE FULL SEASON AND LET THESE KIDS GROW????? (ok you can add a dman, but without trading from our current roster)

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02-14-2012, 06:30 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
There is no freaking way in HELL Briere is going to Montreal. Just get that idea out of your head.

Getting Nash seems less crazy comparing to Briere to Montreal suggestions.
Do you have any LOGIC as to why this is such an absurd suggestion?

Howson has been talking to Philly. Columbus pretty much has nothing defensively that would interest us, Johansen won't be moved, Carter isn't coming back, so Nash is a logical target.

But we would never trade for Nash as long as Briere is here because of his ridiculous cap hit.

At the same time as Howson is talking to us, Gauthier has been a constant at our games. Danny Briere is from Montreal. He frequently goes back to Montreal. He has said numerous times that it is important to him that his kids learn french. His ex-wife is also from the Montreal area.

Sylvie and Danny have a joint custody agreement. If the entire family were to move to Montreal, there is absolutely no problem there.

Since Danny and Sylvie both seem to love Montreal, it seems like the most logical destination.

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02-14-2012, 06:36 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
Do you have any LOGIC as to why this is such an absurd suggestion?

Howson has been talking to Philly. Columbus pretty much has nothing defensively that would interest us, Johansen won't be moved, Carter isn't coming back, so Nash is a logical target.

But we would never trade for Nash as long as Briere is here because of his ridiculous cap hit.

At the same time as Howson is talking to us, Gauthier has been a constant at our games. Danny Briere is from Montreal. He frequently goes back to Montreal. He has said numerous times that it is important to him that his kids learn french. His ex-wife is also from the Montreal area.

Sylvie and Danny have a joint custody agreement. If the entire family were to move to Montreal, there is absolutely no problem there.

Since Danny and Sylvie both seem to love Montreal, it seems like the most logical destination.
It wasn't for no reason that Briere chose Philadelphia over Montreal. French players here are put under a microscope. I was trying to find the quote from Briere at the time that the journalists would probably be going through his garbage. I'd be very surprised if Briere has even a passing interest in coming to the Canadiens.

Oh, and Pittsburgh should deal for Nash and put him on a line with Crosby and Staal.

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