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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part IV | "Operation Dumba Drop"

View Poll Results: Which defenseman do you like most?
Ryan Murray 119 56.40%
Jacob Trouba 8 3.79%
Matt Dumba 45 21.33%
Griffin Reinhart 28 13.27%
Cody Ceci 1 0.47%
Morgan Rielly 10 4.74%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-14-2012, 10:45 PM
  #1
Soli
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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part IV | "Operation Dumba Drop"

Continue here.

Part I: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=969315
Part II: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...080917&page=27
Part III: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1087899

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17
*Disclaimer: This thread is about draft eligible players for the 2012 NHL Entry Draft, not to discuss where we'll finish in the standings, our legitimacy as a play-off team or anything of that matter.*



I thought I would kick off our first official 2012 draft thread with my own Top 10.

The first three columns are the player's rankings with Redline Report, Future Considerations and International Scouting Service.



[#1]
 
Nail Yakupov - W
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  1 1 2 F Nail Yakupov 06-OCT-93 5.11 180 L Sarnia Sting RUS OHL 65 49 52 101 -2  


Strengths:
-Explosive skater
-Slippery
-Quick hands and creativity
-Great shot
-Plays bigger than his 5'11'' frame
-Very effective in the dirty areas

Comparable:
-A smaller Alexander Ovechkin


[#2]
 
Ryan Murray - LD
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  3 2 3 D Ryan Murray 27-SEP-93 6.00 182 L Everett Silvertips CAN WHL 70 6 40 46 +18  


Strengths:
-Great skater
-Great puck-moving ability
-Positionally and defensively solid
-Leadership

Comparable:
-Scott Niedermayer


[#3]
 
Nick Ebert - RD
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  2 4 6 D Nick Ebert 11-MAY-94 6.00 195 R Windsor Spitfires USA OHL 64 11 30 41 -2  


Strengths:
-Great skater
-Very physical
-Great puck-moving ability
-Very good positionally and defensively solid

Comparable:
-Drew Doughty


[#4]
 
Mikhail Grigorenko - C
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  11 5 1 F Mikhail Grigorenko 16-MAY-94 6.02 192 L CSKA Moscow RUS MHL 43 17 18 35 +9  


Strengths:
-Good size
-Good skater
-Great playmaking skills
-Good shot
-Committed two-way center

Comparable:
-Evgeni Malkin


[#5]
 
Alex Galchenyuk - C
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  7 3 9 F Alex Galchenyuk 12-FEB-94 6.00 185 L Sarnia Sting OHL 68 31 52 83 -8


Strengths:
-Good size
-Good skater
-Strong on the puck
-Great shot
-Very defensively responsible

Comparable:
-Marian Hossa


[#6]
 
Filip Forsberg - W
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  18 9 4 F Filip Forsberg 13-AUG-94 6.01 176 R Leksand SWE SuperElit 36 21 19 40 +30  


Strengths:
-Good size
-Good playmaker
-Great shot
-Strong on his skates
-Explosive skater

Comparable:
Patrick Marleau


[#7]
 
Griffin Reinhart - LD
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  4 8 7 D Griffin Reinhart 24-JAN-94 6.04 202 L Edmonton Oil Kings CAN WHL 45 6 19 25 +7


Strengths:
-Great size
-Smooth skater
-Good puck-moving ability
-Gritty
-Big Shot

Comparable
Ed Jovanovski


[#8]
 
Morgan Rielly - LD
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  10 7 12 D Morgan Rielly 09-MAR-94 6.00 190 L Moose Jaw Warriors CAN WHL 65 6 22 28 -15    


Strengths:
-Smooth skater
-Great puck-moving ability
-Loads of patience/poise
-Great shot
-Good defender

Comparable:
Brian Rafalski


[#9]
 
Jacob Trouba - RD
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  6 6 5 D Jacob Trouba 26-FEB-94 6.01 183 R USA NTDP U17 USA 37 6 13 19 -  


Strengths:
-Great skater
-Good puck-moving ability
-Big shot
-Very physical, loves to initiate contact
-Loads of grit

Comparable:
Erik Johnson


[#10]
 
Matt Dumba - RD
  RLR FC ISS Pos Name DOB HT WT L/R Team Nat League GP G A Pts +/- GPI GAA Pct
  12 10 14 D Mathew Dumba 25-JUL-94 5.11 172 R Red Deer Rebels CAN WHL 62 15 11 26 +24   


Strengths:
-Explosive skater
-Big shot
-Great puck-rushing ability
-Great open-ice hitter
-Very physical, loves to initiate contact

Comparable:
P.K. Subban





Let the discussion begin!

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02-14-2012, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
So if we can give Dumba the edge offensively over Murray. What about defensively? From what I've heard Murray is a rock back there where as Dumba is a little more of a risk.

I don't think I've ever even seen Dumba play so just going off what I read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Ya, well Larsson is the comparison I would make. I think both are very similar. I would put them neck and neck for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
I have Murray over Dumba right now. Murray is a better skater, better defensively and puts up decent points - Dumba reminds me a lot of PK Subban, he takes risks and sometimes they pay off big time, other times his team gets scored on. Not sure how his physical play style will translate to the NHL (if at all).

Dumba is known for making high risk plays where sometimes a simple play would be better off (like PK)

I like Dumba a lot but if I was picking between the two I'd stick with Murray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Yeah but I think the question is what's wrong with having a "risk taker" on the blue line?

You don't really want 6 deep Ladislav Smid's with a relatively bland offensive game either.

Not with the type of forward group we have.

Having one guy who is more dynamic and creative with the puck on the back end wouldn't be so bad. Let Klefbom and Teubert and Smid play more of a defensive style.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Murray is smaller and not nearly as physical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I agree 100% with this post, I like Dumba, but I would go with Murray. Dumba would be more fun to watch, but Murray is just the better D man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKD View Post
Dumba definitely has that risk in his game, but he's also very aware that it can sometimes be too much. He said he's working diligently on simplifying his game to prevent those mistakes, particularly at next level when they're magnified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Murray is listed at 6-1 195, Larsson at 6-3 200. Murray is a year younger, my guess is they will end up the same size. If those stats are accurate.

And physical? really? I would call it a draw but I admit I have not watched either that much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I think Joonas Korpisalo is going under the radar for goalies in the draft.

35GP 1.99 GAA .922SV%. in the Jr. A SM liiga.

He's putting up better Jr. A numbers than Perhonen in his draft year and significantly better International tourney numbers.

This quote from The Hockey News got me interested:


He's 6'2'' and has pro hockey bloodlines(his father played close to 600 SM liiga games).

I've never seen him play, but from everything I've read, the kid sounds like he should be up there in the goalie talks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Larsson actually reminded me a tad of Phaneuf from the SEL games I saw of him last year, got himself out of position trying to head hunt every once in a while.

Murray really doesn't have a physical dimension to his game. He reminds me a lot of Wade Redden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Murray isn't going to just sprout 2 inches and gain 20lbs.

There's going to be a significant size difference.

And, as said earlier, Larsson is much more physical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
He probably will, he is 18. And there is 5 pounds difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Larsson was 6'3'' 210lbs before the draft, I would assume he's put on more weight now.

It's very rare to see an 18 year old sprout up 2 inches, especially one who's at the older end of 18 with a matured body like Murray.

Murray is 6'0.5'' 200lbs right now.

There's a pretty significant difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I don't think size really matters as much for Murray's game. He's not the type of guy that's going to bull doze someone off the puck or be a crease clearing type of player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Murray would be more dependable defensively. For sure.

But Dumba continues to improve in that area. Dumba is much more physical as well. All over the ice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
I'm a Jacob Trouba guy, saw almost all his World Junior games live and he looked so poised as a defender. Probably the most poised on the team and wasn't afraid to skate it up, get involved in the play offensively or get physical in the corners. Especially notable considering he was underaged.

He definitely jumped out at me the most on a team of first round d-men like Merrill and Tinordi. If we're at that 4 or 5 spot, I want him. If Murray is Redden (which I agree with, in his prime) then Trouba is Suter to me. I'll still go with a Phaneuf/Subban comparison for Dumba. I've said it before and I'll say it again that Rielly could end up being as good as Mike Green, his offensive instincts and skating are unbelievable. I still can't believe we were robbed of watching him play almost this entire season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
i think you meant to say:








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02-14-2012, 10:50 PM
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One way or another the oilers needs to get a stud D in the system

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02-14-2012, 10:54 PM
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is murray everyone first choice among Dmen except for IATL?

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02-14-2012, 11:08 PM
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Finally, a good draft slogan.

You're welcome.

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02-14-2012, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
is murray everyone first choice among Dmen except for IATL?
I'd like Murray. I think more people are leaning Dumba at the moment.

But I think Stu and the scouting staff are thinking Murray. They'll be attracted by his leadership, his hockey IQ, his skating, and the way playing defense comes effortlessly to him.

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02-14-2012, 11:19 PM
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I read this forum a lot because I guess the Oilers would be my second team, Living in Calgary and hating the flames and canucks It's just happened.

Anyways I read this forum a lot and you guys all seem pretty high on Murray. I like him but I feel a lot of you are selling his potential as some kind of elite number one d-man a bit high. I've only watched him play 7 or 8 times but he reminds me exactly of Karl Alzner. If you compare any scouting reports of the two there the exact same. Watching them there are as well.

Alzners already an elite defensive d-man who moves the puck fairly effectively but he's more of an elite complementary guy he's basically a mini Suter.

Which is what I see Murray as, which is brilliant to have but I feel some of you are getting your hopes up a bit.

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02-14-2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Finally, a good draft slogan.

You're welcome.
Hey, I thought I coined that!

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02-14-2012, 11:31 PM
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Thank god we have a new Slogan. The last one made me avoid the thread I think.

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02-14-2012, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
I read this forum a lot because I guess the Oilers would be my second team, Living in Calgary and hating the flames and canucks It's just happened.

Anyways I read this forum a lot and you guys all seem pretty high on Murray. I like him but I feel a lot of you are selling his potential as some kind of elite number one d-man a bit high. I've only watched him play 7 or 8 times but he reminds me exactly of Karl Alzner. If you compare any scouting reports of the two there the exact same. Watching them there are as well.

Alzners already an elite defensive d-man who moves the puck fairly effectively but he's more of an elite complementary guy he's basically a mini Suter.

Which is what I see Murray as, which is brilliant to have but I feel some of you are getting your hopes up a bit.
A lot of people agree with your assessment, me included.

Would I want an Alzner-esqe defenseman on my team? Yes.

Would I want to draft an Alzner-esque defenseman 3-5 and build my defense around him? No. Not really.

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02-14-2012, 11:38 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
I read this forum a lot because I guess the Oilers would be my second team, Living in Calgary and hating the flames and canucks It's just happened.

Anyways I read this forum a lot and you guys all seem pretty high on Murray. I like him but I feel a lot of you are selling his potential as some kind of elite number one d-man a bit high. I've only watched him play 7 or 8 times but he reminds me exactly of Karl Alzner. If you compare any scouting reports of the two there the exact same. Watching them there are as well.

Alzners already an elite defensive d-man who moves the puck fairly effectively but he's more of an elite complementary guy he's basically a mini Suter.

Which is what I see Murray as, which is brilliant to have but I feel some of you are getting your hopes up a bit.
Fair assessment outside of one thing: I think Murray is already as good/slightly better skater than Alzner. When the kid has the same amount of development time as Alzner he'll blow him away in that regard.

That said, Dumba is a fantastic skater as well. Murray is the better D and safer pick as of right now, but Dumba's potential is through the roof. No matter which one we decide on, I think neither would make the team as our D seems to be set for next year already as well as Dmen really benefit from gradual development paths. Murray would likely be ready in 1 yr, Dumba 2-3, but the important things to remember are:

1) We are already loaded with LHD prospects (Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Musil). We lack (quality) RHD prospects. (Not to mention a RHD with a bomb/high offensive instinct seems like the best fit for the Nuge being set up on the right half boards on the PP).

2) Guys like Klefbom/Marincin are already ahead of whomever we draft. If we have to wait 2+ years for the roster spot anyway, why not go with the guy with the bigger potential tag/the guy who'd benefit from more development time. Dumba is one of the younger guys in the draft, the guy needs to grow physically as well as from a hockey IQ perspective. Drafting Murray just has "rush" written all over it and I foresee something stupid like letting Whitney walk after next year because we figure we have his replacement and playing a 19/20yr old 20+mins a game.

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02-14-2012, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Fair assessment outside of one thing: I think Murray is already as good/slightly better skater than Alzner. When the kid has the same amount of development time as Alzner he'll blow him away in that regard.

That said, Dumba is a fantastic skater as well. Murray is the better D and safer pick as of right now, but Dumba's potential is through the roof. No matter which one we decide on, I think neither would make the team as our D seems to be set for next year already as well as Dmen really benefit from gradual development paths. Murray would likely be ready in 1 yr, Dumba 2-3, but the important things to remember are:

1) We are already loaded with LHD prospects (Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Musil). We lack (quality) RHD prospects. (Not to mention a RHD with a bomb/high offensive instinct seems like the best fit for the Nuge being set up on the right half boards on the PP).

2) Guys like Klefbom/Marincin are already ahead of whomever we draft. If we have to wait 2+ years for the roster spot anyway, why not go with the guy with the bigger potential tag/the guy who'd benefit from more development time. Dumba is one of the younger guys in the draft, the guy needs to grow physically as well as from a hockey IQ perspective. Drafting Murray just has "rush" written all over it and I foresee something stupid like letting Whitney walk after next year because we figure we have his replacement and playing a 19/20yr old 20+mins a game.
all 4 of them are? really? wow i didn't know that...

i will concede that this is a part of my motivation for wanting him, and that it is a foolish motivation, however IMO we should be letting whitney go regardless, and trading him away if we can get something for him.

as long as we are relying on him to be apart of our top-4 we are going to have major problems IMO.

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02-14-2012, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Fair assessment outside of one thing: I think Murray is already as good/slightly better skater than Alzner. When the kid has the same amount of development time as Alzner he'll blow him away in that regard.
Straight line I agree, Alzners seems quicker laterally though.

In Alzners first 30 games NHL he took 1 penalty, Murray takes almost no unnecessary penalties as well. Another similarity.

I hope the Oilers draft Dumba though. He's the complete package, anyone caught up with his lack of size is stupid. Just like people concerned with RNH's size last year.

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02-14-2012, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Larsson was 6'3'' 210lbs before the draft, I would assume he's put on more weight now.

It's very rare to see an 18 year old sprout up 2 inches, especially one who's at the older end of 18 with a matured body like Murray.

Murray is 6'0.5'' 200lbs right now.

There's a pretty significant difference.


So TSN says Larsson is 200 pounds, you are sayign they are off? NHL.com also says 200 pounds. How do you know he was 210 when drafted?

Any way, I don't really care. Murray doesn't need size as he is such a smart D man.

That being said I still think he is just as big as Larsson and TSN seems to agree with me

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02-15-2012, 12:00 AM
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I'd be much more confident with one of the Russian forwards. Seems like picking a D is a bit of a crapshoot. I'll be holding my breath for a lottery win.

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02-15-2012, 12:06 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post

So TSN says Larsson is 200 pounds, you are sayign they are off? NHL.com also says 200 pounds. How do you know he was 210 when drafted?

Any way, I don't really care. Murray doesn't need size as he is such a smart D man.

That being said I still think he is just as big as Larsson and TSN seems to agree with me
ISS has him listed at 209lbs pre-draft.

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02-15-2012, 12:10 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
ISS has him listed at 209lbs pre-draft.
So why would TSN and NHL.com be so far off then? seems weird. My guess is ISS was wrong.

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02-15-2012, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
So why would TSN and NHL.com be so far off then? seems weird. My guess is ISS was wrong.
Considering it's ISS's job to have up to date information on draftees, I'd guess they're right.

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02-15-2012, 12:21 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Considering it's ISS's job to have up to date information on draftees, I'd guess they're right.
Doesn't Central Souting weigh them at the combine? They had him at 197.

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02-15-2012, 12:31 AM
  #20
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Doesn't Central Souting weigh them at the combine? They had him at 197.
It seems like TSN and NHL.com do a lot of rounding, every one is rounded to 5 pounds, so he could very well weight more than 200, but I doubt he was 210 at draft, seems odd. My guess is Seachd is right.

Any way, untill we can find Larsson and put him on a scale I guess there is no point in debating.

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02-15-2012, 01:08 AM
  #21
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Larsson's a pretty big dude, so yeah 209 sounds about right.

I like Murray but I don't think he's as good as Larsson.

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02-15-2012, 01:10 AM
  #22
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You take Ebert down from the 3 spot......


....his year isn't going as planned.

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02-15-2012, 01:14 AM
  #23
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I really hope we take the BPA, even if it's at a position we're stocked at.

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02-15-2012, 01:19 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
So why would TSN and NHL.com be so far off then? seems weird. My guess is ISS was wrong.
Good grief man. Just look at them ok? Do you watch hockey?

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-15-2012, 01:24 AM
  #25
dnicks17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
You take Ebert down from the 3 spot......


....his year isn't going as planned.
His offense is finally coming around. I'm not sure the exact numbers now, but he's been close to a point per game lately.

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