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02-14-2012, 09:39 PM
  #1
Surly Furious
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New Wild pre-deadline Master Plan

Here is my master plan for the days leading up to the trade deadline: Chuck Fletcher, feel free to borrow. This team is not pulling out of this dive. Time to think of the future.

1. Trade Zidlicky, even if you get low-balled. Those 4 million bucks could be put to much better use next year.

2. Have a serious talk with Brodziak's agent. If his contract demands are reasonable, extend him. If not, deal him. He is too valuable to let get away for nothing.

3. Deal Harding. Good guy, good goalie, but not a great goalie. Get value in return and hand over the back-up duties to Hackett. You still have Kuemper, Gustafsson, Michalek in the system.

4. Give extended trials to Almond, Foucault, McIntyre, Rau and any other AHL staple that can still fit under the label "prospect."

5. Continue the McMillan and Falk trials. Best to know what we have in the system.

6. Consider giving guys like Cuma, Fontaine and Genoway a look. Hell, 39 other guys have worn a Wild uni this season, why should they miss out on the fun.

6. Say adios to Zanon and Peters the same way you did to Gillies, Ortmeyer, and Staubitz. No future, why bother playing them. If you can actually get something in return for Zanon, it would be crimnal not to do so.

7. There will be money to spend, but no way the Wild will be in a position to compete for premium free agents like Parise and Suter, who will likely choose Cup contenders. Time to target quality NHL players who fit into what Yeo wants to do here. Skaters and competitors will be given preference.


That's pretty much it. It's looking like a top 10 pick is a reality, and maybe even better than that. Add a 2nd or two, and continue to reel in prospects like the last 2 drafts.

With the influx of talented, pretty well-seasoned rookies like Granlund, Larsson, and perhaps Brodin and Bulmer, along with a couple solid NHL-quality UFAs, you might make the playoffs next year. If you get Bouchard and Latendresse healthy, perhaps even more. If you have injuries, you will have talented guys like Coyle and Phillips to pick up the slack.

Never again should you have to ice Jed Ortmeyer, Warren Peters, Jeff Taffe, or any other AHL material.

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02-14-2012, 09:48 PM
  #2
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I still say the Wild have an outside chance at Parise, but the likelihood of this is lessened with each loss.

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02-14-2012, 09:49 PM
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it sounds like he's actively trying to trade Zid. I wouldn't doubt he's trying to trade Harding as well. Brodziak is tough...it would be hard to lose him. if we toss him IMO it's a sign we've given up for the season, much as the Johnsson trade when that went down. He's not a spectacular talent but he's been absolutely key. So, so we keep him and hope we make it to the playoffs or trade him, hurting our chances significantly just to make sure we don't lose him for nothing? I'm assuming here that anyone trading for him will only part with assets that won't hurt their chances at the playoffs (and thus wouldn't improve ours).

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02-14-2012, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Here is my master plan for the days leading up to the trade deadline: Chuck Fletcher, feel free to borrow. This team is not pulling out of this dive. Time to think of the future.

1. Trade Zidlicky, even if you get low-balled. Those 4 million bucks could be put to much better use next year.
...
7. There will be money to spend, but no way the Wild will be in a position to compete for premium free agents like Parise and Suter, who will likely choose Cup contenders. Time to target quality NHL players who fit into what Yeo wants to do here. Skaters and competitors will be given preference.
These two seem incompatible. There's plenty of cap space as it is; it's not a good reason to trade Zidlicky.

It feels weird to be defending Zidlicky all the time, but the amount of unfounded hate around here is staggering. I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: Zid's been the best offensive player, except for Heatley, since coming off the bench. He has absolutely backed up his words. He has made some really good offensive plays and created a lot of chances; some (like the lone goal tonight) have been converted, but a lot have been fanned on as every single player seems to be snake-bitter than Mittens. And he has made far fewer defensive gaffes than he did at the start of the year. (And you'd better not blame him for getting tripped behind the goal, then getting scored on when there was no call.)

He brings a component to the game that nobody––including rookies in the pipeline, who very well might not make the team next year anyway––else does. If you're going to trade him, you better get fair value. For all his flaws, he'll still help this team more than his cap space, especially since they won't be getting any big contracts to fill what space they already have anyway.

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02-14-2012, 10:02 PM
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Three words: sell sell SELL!!!!!

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02-14-2012, 10:04 PM
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Sell Zids, his actual value might be increasing with not much available on the market, I say we get rid of him while we can. Next up, like you said, would be Brodz. Let's get rid of some guys, see who's out there, but we can't do much at this point. We aren't making the playoffs when you score 7 goals in 6 games.

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02-14-2012, 10:18 PM
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we aren't missing the playoffs when on top of the league aft...aww never mind.

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02-14-2012, 10:22 PM
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Zidz is rumored to be woth a 1st (less guys on d available) if so sell the mofo get a 1st

Brodz too i think can command a late 1st tho i would love to keep him if he isnt signing by deadline he needs be moved no reason to lose assets

Really wish we kept wellman i think a

Johnson koivu heater line would be good and a

Seto cully wellman line could be good speeed

Back on track

Zanon move him his play of late should fetch a 3rd ( two of them can be a zucker,lucia or larsson)

Rest of the prospects depends you move where it makes sense and give extended looks.

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02-14-2012, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
we aren't missing the playoffs when on top of the league aft...aww never mind.
Trade zidz to det for kindl... Then go on a massive win streak

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02-14-2012, 10:29 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Zidz is rumored to be woth a 1st (less guys on d available) if so sell the mofo get a 1st.
Zids for a 1st from a playoff team. Then low 20s pick + our own 7-10 pick for a top 3 pick.

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02-14-2012, 10:55 PM
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Depends on where we end up, sitting in 10th right now as usual. We'll get a good player there, but I don't see how we make the playoffs here. I suppose we could go on a tear similar to beginning of the season, but it's clear that we shouldn't be giving up any assets for the team this year, we might be able to get some good prospects/picks because everyone thinks they are in it.

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02-14-2012, 11:24 PM
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there are some very good dman available and a lot of time to play so when all is said and done if we trade zidz zanon we can end up with trouba with our pick or even if we say draft 7th Murray could slide to us.

we just need one dependable FA dman and our d next year would be

we could have a very good d next year tho we'd need some grit there.

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02-14-2012, 11:50 PM
  #13
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1/ Continue building toward the future. Don't make any desperate moves at the trade deadline.

2/ We need to solidify a top line. Heatley and Koivu isn't cutting it as a top line. Too slow (and for Koivu, he's injury prone). Phillips may eventually develop into a top line center way down the road but he's at least 2-3 years away from making an impact in the NHL. Granlund isn't built as a center and Coyle might turn out to be like Koivu in the long run. Good player but won't be top line material.

3/ We definitely need one or two young defensemen. There's some interesting names out on the market and we should focus on a few like;

Danny Syvret
Matt Carle
Chris Campoli
Sami Lepisto
Jeff Woywitka

There are a lot of good options for defensemen that can be plugged in this offseason.

4/ I would look at a guy like Mikael Grabovski, Jiri Hudler in the offseason. The forwards are relatively thinner then defensemen in this year's FA and we're going to be having issues with guys shooting.

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02-14-2012, 11:54 PM
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ShutDownDefense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Zids for a 1st from a playoff team. Then low 20s pick + our own 7-10 pick for a top 3 pick.
No, I'd rather keep the second first round pick we'd probably get from it. If we get a couple of second rounders, I'd want to trade maybe our first rounder in the teens/20's and a second rounder to move up if possible like Toronto did last year.

Two firsts just to move up a few spots in the Top 10 isn't worth it. I'd want to trade Zids though if we can. Nonetheless a good overall plan.

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02-15-2012, 12:02 AM
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No, I'd rather keep the second first round pick we'd probably get from it. If we get a couple of second rounders, I'd want to trade maybe our first rounder in the teens/20's and a second rounder to move up if possible like Toronto did last year.

Two firsts just to move up a few spots in the Top 10 isn't worth it. I'd want to trade Zids though if we can. Nonetheless a good overall plan.
Not if you say it like that. Two firsts for one lottery pick, or alternatively using one first to make the other one more productive.

The Wild need an impact player. I don't see any other way we're getting him, especially since, let's be honest, we haven't exactly done anything to convince Zachy boy or Weber to sign here. Nobody could accuse us of perpetuating the cycle of never making the playoffs but never drafting high.

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02-15-2012, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Not if you say it like that. Two firsts for one lottery pick, or alternatively using one first to make the other one more productive.

The Wild need an impact player. I don't see any other way we're getting him, especially since, let's be honest, we haven't exactly done anything to convince Zachy boy or Weber to sign here. Nobody could accuse us of perpetuating the cycle of never making the playoffs but never drafting high.
We don't necessarily have to trade that high into the draft. Looking at the past few drafts. These players have already made an impact and were drafted 6-10th overall: Petrieoangelo(sp?), Boychuk, Hodgson, Cowen, Ekman-Larsson, Kadri, Paarjvii-Svenson, Skinner, Connolly, and Burmistrov, not to mention FBJ - Granlund. Even if we don't get into the Top 5, we can still land an impact player, we don't have enough depth prospect wise yet. Not all of them will pan out and I'd rather have multiple first rounders instead of moving up say 2-3 spots for a guy who probably isn't all that much better than a guy 2-3 spots below him.

Right now we're sitting 10th overall draft wise if it happened today, and a lot of teams are 2-3 wins away from making us 5th overall. We could still end up in the Top 5, but I'm assuming us still winning the odd one and with Lats/Bouchard coming back will make us better will still have us sitting 6-10th overall.

* 1. Nail Yakupov
* 2. Mathew Dumba
* 3. Filip Forsberg
* 4. Morgan Rielly
* 5. Alex Galchenyuk
* 6. Griffin Reinhart
* 7. Mikhail Grigorenko
* 8. Matt Finn
* 9. Ryan Murray
* 10. Jacob Trouba

Here's the current ranked Top 10. After Forsberg it starts to drop off immediately. Hell, Grigorenko is sitting 7th provided he stays there. On D, is there really much of a difference from Rielly to Finn? 6 D make up the Top 10 and I'd rather not waste two first rounders just to move up a few spots, when Finn, Reinhart, or Murray could be as good as Rielly and he has an ACL tear which will slow his development.


Last edited by ShutDownDefense: 02-15-2012 at 12:18 AM.
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02-15-2012, 12:27 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Here is my master plan for the days leading up to the trade deadline: Chuck Fletcher, feel free to borrow. This team is not pulling out of this dive. Time to think of the future.

1. Trade Zidlicky, even if you get low-balled. Those 4 million bucks could be put to much better use next year.

2. Have a serious talk with Brodziak's agent. If his contract demands are reasonable, extend him. If not, deal him. He is too valuable to let get away for nothing.

3. Deal Harding. Good guy, good goalie, but not a great goalie. Get value in return and hand over the back-up duties to Hackett. You still have Kuemper, Gustafsson, Michalek in the system.

4. Give extended trials to Almond, Foucault, McIntyre, Rau and any other AHL staple that can still fit under the label "prospect."

5. Continue the McMillan and Falk trials. Best to know what we have in the system.

6. Consider giving guys like Cuma, Fontaine and Genoway a look. Hell, 39 other guys have worn a Wild uni this season, why should they miss out on the fun.

6. Say adios to Zanon and Peters the same way you did to Gillies, Ortmeyer, and Staubitz. No future, why bother playing them. If you can actually get something in return for Zanon, it would be crimnal not to do so.

7. There will be money to spend, but no way the Wild will be in a position to compete for premium free agents like Parise and Suter, who will likely choose Cup contenders. Time to target quality NHL players who fit into what Yeo wants to do here. Skaters and competitors will be given preference.


That's pretty much it. It's looking like a top 10 pick is a reality, and maybe even better than that. Add a 2nd or two, and continue to reel in prospects like the last 2 drafts.

With the influx of talented, pretty well-seasoned rookies like Granlund, Larsson, and perhaps Brodin and Bulmer, along with a couple solid NHL-quality UFAs, you might make the playoffs next year. If you get Bouchard and Latendresse healthy, perhaps even more. If you have injuries, you will have talented guys like Coyle and Phillips to pick up the slack.

Never again should you have to ice Jed Ortmeyer, Warren Peters, Jeff Taffe, or any other AHL material.

Ah hell, why not.

Sell Z&Z. Call up the other younguns and let them get a whack at it; see if they've got anything. I'ld rather us not press any of the good regulars too hard anymore anyways, besides, maybe we can break some record of how many people play on our team this year! I say go for it... A top 3 pick would be a nice change. Then come back next year with vengeance and healthy players, and a sniper in the crowd for when the refs turn on us...

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Old
02-15-2012, 07:17 AM
  #18
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Sell.

Just ****ing sell, Fletch. Stop pretending this shipwreck is salvageable and SELL.

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02-15-2012, 08:24 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
1. Trade Zidlicky, even if you get low-balled. Those 4 million bucks could be put to much better use next year.

2. Have a serious talk with Brodziak's agent. If his contract demands are reasonable, extend him. If not, deal him. He is too valuable to let get away for nothing.
Done and in prossess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
3. Deal Harding. Good guy, good goalie, but not a great goalie. Get value in return and hand over the back-up duties to Hackett. You still have Kuemper, Gustafsson, Michalek in the system.
He's rumored to be on the market, can't see him getting moved until the day of the deadline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
4. Give extended trials to Almond, Foucault, McIntyre, Rau and any other AHL staple that can still fit under the label "prospect."

5. Continue the McMillan and Falk trials. Best to know what we have in the system.
In prossess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
6. Consider giving guys like Cuma, Fontaine and Genoway a look. Hell, 39 other guys have worn a Wild uni this season, why should they miss out on the fun.
Cuma - Bad idea. With all the injuries he just needs stability. He should not be bouncing around under any circumstance.

Fontaine - Suspended at the moment.

Genoway - Still learning the pro game. He should be cheap and easy to qualify in the offseason so there's no need to force him up with the big team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
6. Say adios to Zanon and Peters the same way you did to Gillies, Ortmeyer, and Staubitz. No future, why bother playing them. If you can actually get something in return for Zanon, it would be crimnal not to do so.
All signs point to Zanon being gone next season. He has (possibly significant) trade value, especially on this extremely weak market. If you can't get anything for him, there's no reason to lose him for free on waivers. The latter goes for Peters as well. Keep them with the team until April. Maybe re-sign Peters for Houston again as he seems well liked by the organization, and is a safe promotion/demotion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
7. There will be money to spend, but no way the Wild will be in a position to compete for premium free agents like Parise and Suter, who will likely choose Cup contenders. Time to target quality NHL players who fit into what Yeo wants to do here. Skaters and competitors will be given preference.
So much money to spend, but no one to spend it on. We might be able to pick up a 3-4 defenseman, but if we miss on Suter and Parise (which is the likely scenario) don't expect anything more than that.

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02-15-2012, 08:37 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
We don't necessarily have to trade that high into the draft. Looking at the past few drafts. These players have already made an impact and were drafted 6-10th overall: Petrieoangelo(sp?), Boychuk, Hodgson, Cowen, Ekman-Larsson, Kadri, Paarjvii-Svenson, Skinner, Connolly, and Burmistrov, not to mention FBJ - Granlund. Even if we don't get into the Top 5, we can still land an impact player, we don't have enough depth prospect wise yet. Not all of them will pan out and I'd rather have multiple first rounders instead of moving up say 2-3 spots for a guy who probably isn't all that much better than a guy 2-3 spots below him.

Right now we're sitting 10th overall draft wise if it happened today, and a lot of teams are 2-3 wins away from making us 5th overall. We could still end up in the Top 5, but I'm assuming us still winning the odd one and with Lats/Bouchard coming back will make us better will still have us sitting 6-10th overall.

* 1. Nail Yakupov
* 2. Mathew Dumba
* 3. Filip Forsberg
* 4. Morgan Rielly
* 5. Alex Galchenyuk
* 6. Griffin Reinhart
* 7. Mikhail Grigorenko
* 8. Matt Finn
* 9. Ryan Murray
* 10. Jacob Trouba

Here's the current ranked Top 10. After Forsberg it starts to drop off immediately. Hell, Grigorenko is sitting 7th provided he stays there. On D, is there really much of a difference from Rielly to Finn? 6 D make up the Top 10 and I'd rather not waste two first rounders just to move up a few spots, when Finn, Reinhart, or Murray could be as good as Rielly and he has an ACL tear which will slow his development.
Where did you dig up that top 10? Almost no one has Grigorenko ranked lower than 2nd, and those who do have him ranked 3rd. In fact, ISS (haven't seen a Feb ranking so this is Jan) has Grigorneko ranked first. Much to Dan's amusement, I've been using FC's rankings because they're "the least easily objectionable" and they have this as the top 10:

1). RW Nail Yakupov, Sarnia, OHL, 5-10.5, 189
2). C Mikhail Grigorenko, Quebec, QMJHL, 6-3, 200
3). D Ryan Murray, Everett, WHL, 6-0.5, 200
4). D Matt Dumba, Red Deer, WHL, 5-11.5, 180
5). C Alex Galchenyuk, Sarnia, OHL, 6-1, 185
6). LW Filip Forsberg, Leksand, Swe., 6-2, 180
7). D Morgan Rielly, Moose Jaw, WHL, 5-11.5, 190
8). D Cody Ceci, Ottawa, OHL, 6-2.5, 210
9). D Jacob Trouba, USNTDP U18, USHL, 6-2, 195
10). C Brendan Gaunce, Belleville, OHL, 6-2, 215


The dropoff on this list for forwards is Forsberg to Gaunce, and it's significant. For defensemen, the dropoff is after Trouba (whom many people have ranked above Ceci, and a few above Rielly). Assuming no one shoots up the charts a la Huberdeau and Zibanejad last year, the top 9 is very strong with a fair drop off after that point. You can still get quality defensemen throughout the first round, but they're mostly either more of a project, risk/reward type or a one-dimensional type.

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02-15-2012, 09:09 AM
  #21
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All signs point to Zanon being gone next season. He has (possibly significant) trade value, especially on this extremely weak market. If you can't get anything for him, there's no reason to lose him for free on waivers. The latter goes for Peters as well. Keep them with the team until April. Maybe re-sign Peters for Houston again as he seems well liked by the organization, and is a safe promotion/demotion.

So much money to spend, but no one to spend it on. We might be able to pick up a 3-4 defenseman, but if we miss on Suter and Parise (which is the likely scenario) don't expect anything more than that.
I wasn't advocating waiving Zanon. I'd take pretty much anything for him though. If Staubitz can get you a 5th, and Simon a 6th, I think you could get a 3rd or 4th easy for Zanon. I'd settle for less though.

A true NHL 3-4 defenseman would be a solid pick up for this team. So would a guy who can score 20 goals a year.

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02-15-2012, 09:38 AM
  #22
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I wasn't advocating waiving Zanon. I'd take pretty much anything for him though. If Staubitz can get you a 5th, and Simon a 6th, I think you could get a 3rd or 4th easy for Zanon. I'd settle for less though.

A true NHL 3-4 defenseman would be a solid pick up for this team. So would a guy who can score 20 goals a year.
Your phrasing (selecting 3 "comparables" who were all waived) seemed to me that you were. I guesss I'm not sure what exactly you're advocating on that point then.

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02-15-2012, 11:30 AM
  #23
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Really, I think the fan-ship for Brodziak needs to sail.

He is worth a lot more to play-off contention teams than he is to the Wild on an extended contract.

At this point, with the season he has had and looking at the teams that are truly "in contention"...?

Here are the late 1st round picks that I think he would be able to net in trade.

Rangers. Good fit, Torts would love him.
Florida. Ravaged by injuries, but seriously looks like a lock for 3rd in the east.
San Jose. Havlat will be healthy again. Brodziak centering Havlat and Clowe on their "third line"? Yeah... I'd watch that again.

Pittsburg could use him as depth, but they wouldn't value him as high as the three above. Vancouver is pretty much set with Sedin, Kesler, Hodgson. Boston, the same. He would probably help New Jersey, but they wouldn't be willing to part with their first at this point.

Chicago would easily give up their first for Harding + Brodziak. They need to stop the bleeding now and goal tending is a major, major concern for them. We could take Emery back from them to open up the spot for Harding.

Just saying...

Brodziak's value is super high to contenders right now.

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02-15-2012, 11:30 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Your phrasing (selecting 3 "comparables" who were all waived) seemed to me that you were. I guesss I'm not sure what exactly you're advocating on that point then.
Showing him the door. Should have said trade explicitly in his case.

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02-15-2012, 11:33 AM
  #25
Avder
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So lets get on the Brodz tradewagon too.

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