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10,000 seats arena confirmed in Laval, QC. Future AHL affiliate?

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Old
02-15-2012, 05:49 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
I'd be extremely surprised if the Habs' affiliate, whether they are the bulldogs or another AHL team, don't end up playing in Laval within the next 3-4 years.

As for those complaining about tax money, you can stop. This building was entirely funded from Laval budget and private investment funds. Vaillancount has stated that Laval tax payers will not see a single raise in any kind of taxes.

The project is a great idea. It will bring more money to the city of Laval and will be a big perk for the Canadiens.

As someone who works in a ****** Laval arena, let me tell you, this was needed. They can now close a few facilities that were due for some up-keeping (http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/rive-...is-etat-laval/). The city was due to inject 27M in those arenas but won't have to thanks to this project: the new facility will welcome minor hockey leagues, speed skating, etc.

All in all, this is a great project that was handled in a much better way than Quebec City's fiasco.
Its still public funds even if its from a budget surplus.

The fact that there is no tax raise is irrelevant, there are still taxpayer funds being used for the arena.

The surplus could have been used for a million different things, and didnt need to be used for the arena, so yes, those complaining about using taxpayer money may have valid complaints.

You've also forgotten about the provincial government contribution.

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02-15-2012, 07:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Its still public funds even if its from a budget surplus.

The fact that there is no tax raise is irrelevant, there are still taxpayer funds being used for the arena.

The surplus could have been used for a million different things, and didnt need to be used for the arena, so yes, those complaining about using taxpayer money may have valid complaints.

You've also forgotten about the provincial government contribution.
The government's contribution is minimal, and it should bring money to the city of Laval. If you think long term, this will bring in a lot of money. And paying off 45M shouldn't be too hard.

The city HAD to put money into the arenas anyway. Instead of putting it into crappy old arenas that don't bring in any revenus (and that will have to be changed eventually AND cost money to maintain anyway), they'll have one big brand new facility.

Also, it's a good way to invest a budget surplus. Laval was missing a venue like that. It's one of the biggest cities in the province, it's only normal that it would equip itself with a real entertainment center. I don't see the problem.

I just feel that those complaining about tax payer's money are grasping at straws. In the end, 27M had to go into Laval arenas. Might as well spend more to build something more durable that will bring in more money. It's not frivolous spending. It's a long-term, smart investment.

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02-15-2012, 07:47 AM
  #53
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That might all be true. I don't know, I don't live in Laval or follow the situation closely.

However you can't say that taxpayer money is not being used just because there is no tax increase on the citizens, that simply is not true.

As to the value of an arena, whether building this facility is a smart investment or not, and what other things the money could be used on, that's far more of a political discussion than one I'm prepared to have.

All I'm saying is that taxpayer funds are being used here, both from the city and from the province. The fact there is no increase in taxes doesn't mean the funds aren't being spent or that the argument they could be used elsewhere is invalid.

Now you are telling me what should be done, and that's too much politics for me to get into. (Healthcare vs education vs infrastructure vs other uses etc...)

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02-15-2012, 08:10 AM
  #54
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Francois Gagnon @GagnonFrancois Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Quand il sera construit... RT @Fr3dF: @GagnonFrancois Est-ce que les Bulldogs joueront AUTOMATIQUEMENT au complexe de Laval ?

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02-15-2012, 08:33 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Francois Gagnon @GagnonFrancois Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Quand il sera construit... RT @Fr3dF: @GagnonFrancois Est-ce que les Bulldogs joueront AUTOMATIQUEMENT au complexe de Laval ?
I don't think François Gagnon knows that for sure.

But I think it's just common sense to think that the Habs would dream of having their AHL affiliate so close by. If the location is there, and the opportunity is there, they will be all over that. It would make scouting and call-ups so much easier. It would also help the players get acclimated to the city much earlier.

Palushaj is also drooling at this thought

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02-15-2012, 08:35 AM
  #56
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Sucks for the Air Miles though

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02-15-2012, 08:36 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
That might all be true. I don't know, I don't live in Laval or follow the situation closely.

However you can't say that taxpayer money is not being used just because there is no tax increase on the citizens, that simply is not true.

As to the value of an arena, whether building this facility is a smart investment or not, and what other things the money could be used on, that's far more of a political discussion than one I'm prepared to have.

All I'm saying is that taxpayer funds are being used here, both from the city and from the province. The fact there is no increase in taxes doesn't mean the funds aren't being spent or that the argument they could be used elsewhere is invalid.

Now you are telling me what should be done, and that's too much politics for me to get into. (Healthcare vs education vs infrastructure vs other uses etc...)
I'm certainly not an expert either. I work in one of those deprecated arenas on the week-ends (not that it makes me a specialist on the matter), but beside that, I am in no way an expert on Laval politics (or politics in general for that matter).

Of course money should always be spent in education and health above everything else. But you can't put 100% of the budget into those two things. At some point, you have to invest in projects such as this.

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02-15-2012, 10:31 AM
  #58
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Maybe Hamilton will get an NHL team and Bulldogs will have to move to Laval

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02-15-2012, 10:33 AM
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Maybe Hamilton will get an NHL team and Bulldogs will have to move to Laval
before Quebec

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02-15-2012, 10:51 AM
  #60
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But beware, once the Bulldogs move in Laval and they do as poorly as they are now. All teh french medias will rip our youngster apart before they've even played one NHL game.

They will know how to coach them at "L'Antichambre" better then the head coach and htey will keep raving about how our drafts sucks every year...
This is a very dark comment.... and it is a worse case scenario that scares me a bit.

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02-15-2012, 11:41 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
That might all be true. I don't know, I don't live in Laval or follow the situation closely.

However you can't say that taxpayer money is not being used just because there is no tax increase on the citizens, that simply is not true.

As to the value of an arena, whether building this facility is a smart investment or not, and what other things the money could be used on, that's far more of a political discussion than one I'm prepared to have.

All I'm saying is that taxpayer funds are being used here, both from the city and from the province. The fact there is no increase in taxes doesn't mean the funds aren't being spent or that the argument they could be used elsewhere is invalid.

Now you are telling me what should be done, and that's too much politics for me to get into. (Healthcare vs education vs infrastructure vs other uses etc...)
At the very least we are not sprouting money out of thin air to build this, it's money they had sitting in the city coffins waiting to be used. That is money already available on hand. In Québec City case, both the city and the provincial government are taking a loan to build their arena, which is really mismanagement at it's best.

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02-15-2012, 11:44 AM
  #62
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This is a very dark comment.... and it is a worse case scenario that scares me a bit.
I know, but seriously, if the Bulldogs were in Laval this year. Add the season the Canadiens are having and how the Bulldogs aren't better in the AHL.

WHat would the french experts be saying right now? "THe Bulldogs sucks and it explains why the Canadiens sucks as well" or some kind of ******** like that. They would totally overlook that the relevant prospects in the system are still playing their junior careers.

I've already heard that if the Bulldogs move to Laval, it will increase the amount of frenchie in the team at l'Antichambre which shows haw disconnected they are with reality.

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02-15-2012, 12:26 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
I know, but seriously, if the Bulldogs were in Laval this year. Add the season the Canadiens are having and how the Bulldogs aren't better in the AHL.

WHat would the french experts be saying right now? "THe Bulldogs sucks and it explains why the Canadiens sucks as well" or some kind of ******** like that. They would totally overlook that the relevant prospects in the system are still playing their junior careers.

I've already heard that if the Bulldogs move to Laval, it will increase the amount of frenchie in the team at l'Antichambre which shows haw disconnected they are with reality.
I don't think it would be that bad. The media right now doesn't talk about the Bulldogs at all, and closer to us, they don't give a **** about the Armada (or recently, the Junior, if you want to talk strictly about the Montreal area).

Those journalists, for the most part, consider their viewers and readers to have too much of a narrow view to care about the AHL affiliate.

Also, those journalists who are really trying to come out with some kind of scoop don't really care about anything but the Canadiens. The darkest day in Bulldogs history? Nobody would care. They are way too busy during the season to sniff the Habs' players' jockstraps to spend time in a Laval arena.

And finally, if the pressure (which will be slightly higher than in Hamilton, but MUCH smaller than it will be for them in the NHL) is too much for the players, said players are probably not ready to face the music in the big league.

Last but not least, the Habs' PR team will be able to support those young players in Laval. They'll be next door. They'll have all the tools (and more) to deal with the pressure.

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02-15-2012, 12:32 PM
  #64
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I can agree with your post, my main issue with your last sentence is that you are over rating the Canadiens PR who are absolutely awful at handling the medias on a daily basis. So saying that they will support their AHL affiliates is a bit of a stretch to me.

The media in general here are doing an awful job at covering hockey. How comes Q's games have only been aired on tv just in the recent past few years? WHy does RDS shows NCAA games? Start by showing leagues in your own backyard....

Just saying but I have Armada season ticket, had a blast so far and I certainly did not expect the team to do this well. Not after they've lost Pascal Vincent.

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02-15-2012, 01:56 PM
  #65
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Like I said earlier, the Edmonton Roadrunners were a dismal failure. The Toronto Marlies are losing money. The fact that the AHL team will be close to Montreal guarantees nothing.

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02-15-2012, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
At the very least we are not sprouting money out of thin air to build this, it's money they had sitting in the city coffins waiting to be used. That is money already available on hand. In Québec City case, both the city and the provincial government are taking a loan to build their arena, which is really mismanagement at it's best.
While thats true, the fact that the money is available doesn't necessarily mean that this is the best way to spend it.

It might be, it might not be, thats again a political argument I have no desire to get into, as I'm not informed enough about the budget requirements of Laval and what other places might be able to use the funds.

However the mere fact the money exists, doesn't mean that someone who complains about the use of taxpayer funds is making an invalid complaint. That was my only point.

Such a complaint might be valid, I don't know... I'm not getting into the politics of where the money should or could be spent if not spent on the arena.

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02-15-2012, 02:22 PM
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I prefer that the policticians invest money rather then keep it for their reitrement fund. There's enough corruption as it is and they already have a good enough retirement plan. I really don't care on what and where they spend it, in times that they use it to help our society in general.


You can always come up and say they aren,t investing enough in healthcare. Well teh Saint-Eustache hospital is getting an improvement, they are building a brand new wing to the hospital for secretaries. How is it helping hte healthcare system at all? How many secretaries does a doctor need to do his job? It's not because you invest in healthcare that the government spends it wisely.

Instead of creating false jobs for some woman who can't find a real job otherwise, I'd rather have a community who can enjoy a brand new arena.

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02-15-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
I prefer that the policticians invest money rather then keep it for their reitrement fund. There's enough corruption as it is and they already have a good enough retirement plan. I really don't care on what and where they spend it, in times that they use it to help our society in general.


You can always come up and say they aren,t investing enough in healthcare. Well teh Saint-Eustache hospital is getting an improvement, they are building a brand new wing to the hospital for secretaries. How is it helping hte healthcare system at all? How many secretaries does a doctor need to do his job? It's not because you invest in healthcare that the government spends it wisely.

Instead of creating false jobs for some woman who can't find a real job otherwise, I'd rather have a community who can enjoy a brand new arena.
The last part is a fallacy. I don't want to get into that debate, but they do need secretaries to be more efficient. And if the secretaries offices were in terrible shape, why not renovate them?

Anyway, even if the Bulldogs don't work in Laval, it is a venue for shows, which Laval didn't have. It doesn't even matter if the project includes an AHL team or not. Just to be clear, I never meant to imply that an AHL team would be successful here. I have no idea. This city is so engrossed with the Canadiens, I have no idea if it can support another hockey team at all.

My point was mostly that for the Canadiens, having the AHL team so close would be a dream come true. It would make everything a LOT easier.

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02-15-2012, 02:39 PM
  #69
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If you ever went to Saint-Eustache hospital, you'd know that hte last part that needs to be renovated are the secretaries, the whole hospital needs serious fixing. But hey, let's make sure the secretaries are comfy!

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02-15-2012, 04:06 PM
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I know, but seriously, if the Bulldogs were in Laval this year. Add the season the Canadiens are having and how the Bulldogs aren't better in the AHL.

WHat would the french experts be saying right now? "THe Bulldogs sucks and it explains why the Canadiens sucks as well" or some kind of ******** like that. They would totally overlook that the relevant prospects in the system are still playing their junior careers.

I've already heard that if the Bulldogs move to Laval, it will increase the amount of frenchie in the team at l'Antichambre which shows haw disconnected they are with reality.
You know, I would not just single out French media. While they are more present and have a tendency to go for the sensational, the English media are not choirboys either. In fact, on the print side, I think they are just as headline hungry, just lazier than the French guys.

That said, I fear you are right.

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02-15-2012, 06:02 PM
  #71
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unless i missed it in skimming the article, anyone know where in laval it's being built?

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02-15-2012, 07:07 PM
  #72
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unless i missed it in skimming the article, anyone know where in laval it's being built?
I mentioned it earlier in this thread. It will be behind the Palais de Justice. That's between Saint-Martin, Souvenir and Daniel-Johnson.

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