It's so interesting seeing the dominant Dman per era (via the vote)....
Doug Harvey - Early 50's to the 60's
Pierre Pilote - 60's to the Late 60's
Bobby Orr - Late 60's to Mid-70's
Dennis Potvin - Mid 70's to Early 80's
Ray Bourque - Mid 80's to Late 90's
Nik Lidstrom - Late 90's to Present Day.... to the early 10's
Erik Karlsson - early 10's to....
Which Dman of the present do you think will dominate the next era based on Norris voting??
I think it will be Karlsson considering Age and the unique skillset.
But the other contenders.: Doughty, Weber, Petriangelo, Suter, Keith, other...
Anyone think This next era will not be the Karlsson era?
By the way... I love this thread! such a great simple way to filter the big boys...
If we could get an annual update on this, it would be a great watch!
1954/55 Norris Votes (7th onward) Harry Howell, Bill Gadsby, Marcel Pronovost, Jim Thomson and Tom Johnson (all with 3 each); Allan Stanley and Butch Bouchard (2 each); Jim Morrison and Leo Boivin (1 each).
1976/77 Norris Votes (6th onward) Brad Park (19), Jim Schoenfeld (3)
Rough to see Doughty get the most 1st place votes. Already posted why he shouldn't have really been up for the award in the first place but whatever. He's like Apple. Name recognition goes a long way with voters. He's had better efforts in the regular season where he didn't finish as high in the voting. Of course i poked my head in over at the general forum and people were typical juvenile and moronic in saying that Doughty got robbed. There are some very naive people IMHO, who really don't know hockey.....I left quickly.
Keith at 7 is a little surprising. He was personally #3 for me, based largely on the advanced metrics. Thought he'd be at least top 5 though.
Weber over Josi doesn't make sense either when you look at all the numbers that matter for D. Saw about 6-7 Preds games as well and thought Roman was the slightly better player as well.
I'm not saying he should have won the award, but he should be nearly everyone's top 5 for a d-man in 2015. The fact he plays on the west coast doesn't help his case for the east writers who rarely watch him play. 20% of the writers think he isn't top 5, but 33% think he is #1? Something is off there.
OK. Doughty's seasons was Norris Winning good......why exactly?
1. Points - 46 (Tied for 14th among Dmen, well behind Karlsson and Subban who were other finalists)
2. Blocked Shots - 144 (24th in NHL better than Karlsson and Subban)
3. +/- = +3 (Tied for 96th in NHL among D. Disclaimer is this is a pretty low end stat)
4. Takeaways - 12 (ranks 495th in the NHL among all skaters. Karlsson for example, led all D with 59 and was 22nd overall)
5. Giveaways - 80 (ranks 12th overall. Karlsson had 99 but takes the puck away far more for a better split/ratio)
6. Hits - 152 (ranks 96th overall)
7. Corsi Factor Overall = 13th overall (all Dmen with at least 1500 minutes. Karlsson was 2nd)
8. Goals Against per 60 mins = 42nd overall (Subban ranked 14th, Karlsson 22nd)
9. Goals For per 60 mins = 33rd overall (Karlsson ranked 6th, Subban 11th)
Doughty didn't score well enough nor were his defensive metrics in the upper end of the league either. The only thing that Doughty was legitimately elite in was average ice time which he ranked 2nd at 28:59 per night. Karlsson was 3rd at 27:15. So yes, Doughty carried a heavy workload each night, but his overall numbers aren't exactly painting a picture of somebody who was one of the 2-3 best Dmen in the league. One stat can't put you up or down in the overall rankings.
The Kings underachieved much of the year and missed the playoff entirely as defending Cup champs. The Senators for example went 24-3-3 down the stretch to make the playoffs and Karlsson was very big part of that surge.
Well, of the numbers you showed, points is the only one I would put heavy weight on when evaluating a player. The real-time stats you use say more about playing style than player quality IMO (not to mention that they're skewed by arena biases), while Corsi and on-ice-goal stats for all situations clumped together do not interest me very much.
I'm not sure if Doughty was the second best defenceman in the league this year but I think a case for him being among the top could be made: He's second in CF% 5-on-5 among Dmen who played more than 1000 5-on-5 minutes, while trailing only Suter in 5-on-5 avg Ice time. He most certainly is one of the absolute best 5-on-5 defenceman in the league. What holds him down IMO is that he is not as good on the PP as some other elite defencemen. I'd probably still have him on my ballot (i.e. top 5) this year, not sure where exactly though.
31 writers didn't even have Doughty in their top 5. I think it was LeBrun who said we need to find out who those people are.
When Jeter announced his retirement the Baseball Writers wisely decided to make the HoF ballots public, although they didn't have much of a choice. 4 of the top 5 all time % wise are white players who are not even close to being top 5 Brett, Ripken, Ryan, and Seaver, but Aaron and Mays (only 15th!) didn't crack the top 5. Race wasn't a major factor. There are other problems as well. Of the top 3 players all time in WAR, Babe Ruth is 12th percentage wise, Walter Johnson got only 83.63%, and Cy Young got only 76% of the vote. Should the HHoF ballots be made public as well?
__________________ 2016 NL Champs / It's a beautiful day for a ballgame. Let's play two!