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Old
02-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #1
BadgersandBlues
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Questions about your D

Hello all,

I'm a Blues fan (If my name didn't already give it away) and I'm wondering two things.

1) How has Marc Staal played this year since returning from his concussion? I see he only has one assist, and is a -4, but stats can be misleading. I know he used to play with Girardi, but I see that McDonagh seems to be paired with Girardi now. Has that led to Staal having an adjustment period with a new partner? I know MDZ has had a breakout season as well, so I'm assuming Staal doesn't get the PP minutes he once did, which might also lead to a decline in stats.

2) In how high of esteem to you hold Staal now? In the previous point I touched on McD and MDZ having some stellar seasons, has Staal become a bit superfluous now? I have coveted him as a player to pair with our up and coming stud, Alex Pietrangelo, and I'm just trying to gauge how much it might take to pry him out of NY, or if it even would be worth it anymore.

Thanks in advance!

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02-15-2012, 01:49 PM
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qwertyaas
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Staal is still adjusting back to his normal level of play prior to his concussion.

McD and Girardi are playing great together so there is no use in breaking up the pair.

As for trading Staal, it will be very tough to pry him away. He's not playing at his normal level but that is due to bring shutdown since the summer. We at all waiting for him to get back to his pre concussion level of play - which is coming slowly but surely.

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02-15-2012, 01:55 PM
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Pietrangelo is my cousins cousis and a good friend, so although i am a NYR fan i watch Pie play quite a bit and if you compare him to Stall some things stand out. One Pie is much more gifted in the offensize zone and ive noticed hes even been better in the D zone this year, but compared to Stall there is still a gap in Defensize zone. He is so gifted at trapping forwards in the O zone and making that little play to clear the danger, his positionign if often second to none, and Stall as shown last night is still capable of being the best player on the ice when hes on and has shown that, so trading him would not make sense for us nor would we want to move him. btw i hope pie keeps the points up i have in fantasy lol.

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02-15-2012, 01:55 PM
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mullichicken25
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did anyone else have a super immature reaction when reading this thread title?

anyway,

Staal is slowly getting his game back but has a ways to go. He's been decent but mostly being used as a third pairing guy

this board is pretty tempermental and very "what have you done for me lately" but i think a lot of posters still regard Staal as one of our more important assests

when he's on his game he's arguably the best shutdown dman in hockey....some people may be ready to abandon ship but i have 100% confidence that he will return to pre-concussion form in due time.

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02-15-2012, 01:59 PM
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Reijo R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
did anyone else have a super immature reaction when reading this thread title?

anyway,

Staal is slowly getting his game back but has a ways to go. He's been decent but mostly being used as a third pairing guy

this board is pretty tempermental and very "what have you done for me lately" but i think a lot of posters still regard Staal as one of our more important assests

when he's on his game he's arguably the best shutdown dman in hockey....some people may be ready to abandon ship but i have 100% confidence that he will return to pre-concussion form in due time.
Totally agree. I'd also add that if the Rangers did deal Staal, they'd likely be looking for is a scoring machine, 1st line player. I don't really see one on St. Louis' roster. Perhaps they'd be interested in the kid Tarasenko in a package.....?

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02-15-2012, 02:03 PM
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staal and thomas for tarasenko shattenkirk and a 2nd

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02-15-2012, 02:09 PM
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You're not going to like what we ask for, but it's probably going to take one of your young forwards with top-line upside, preferably a LW, and a pick/prospect to balance out the gap. Think Perron+Schwartz or Stewart+Tarasenko. Maybe add something from us to even things out.

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02-15-2012, 02:15 PM
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Staal missed all of training camp. He's getting better every game. His subtle little plays on the board to take the pucks away from the opposition has been coming slowly. His outlet passes are getting back to where they used to be, and weve seen him throw some big hits of late as well.

id say hes about 80% right now of where he was last year, and its been getting better every single game.

he's also being sheltered a bit playing 2nd and 3rd pairing minutes rather than the huge horse minutes he was played last season.

Staal wears an A too, for a reason. Guy is a huge part of this team. I wouldnt be too eager to move him.

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02-15-2012, 04:39 PM
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Thanks for the honest and respectful responses, even though I probably should have thought out my title a little bit better lol.

How is your team set up going forward? It seems that like the Blues, the Rangers have been integrating a lot of young talent over the last couple of years, and have been sniffing around the playoffs for awhile now, even making them last year. This year seems to be the year you guys (like the Blues) have put it all together, as you're currently first in the league. (Or at least you will be, once you catch up to the Wings in GP)

So I'm assuming if there were to be a trade, you would be looking for young talent that's either in the NHL or NHL ready, or guys in their prime, vs. rentals/long term prospects/draft picks. Also, it seems that you are looking for scoring.

Do you have any interest in Ian Cole? He's a former first rounder (#18 2007) who played three years for Notre Dame, and played in the AHL last year and this year, with a handful of NHL games in-between. He's a strong (I think he came in second on our team to Roman Polak during training camp in strength testing) physical D-man with decent size 6' 2" 220 LBS and -some- offensive potential. He has had some ups and downs, (He had a great game against Pitt this year where he stuck with Crosby and Malkin and shut them down, but has also had games he hasn't really done much in) I personally don't think he's going to be a top pairing guy, but his ceiling is easily a top 4 D-man in the NHL. A lot of us in STL think he's kinda the odd man out going forward as our two bottom pairing guys (Jackman and Russell) both play well and compliment their partners. (Shattenkirk and Polak respectively) Cole's availability would hinge on if Jackman would be willing to resign with the Blues this off-season for the right price (All signs to that point to yes though) However, hypothetically speaking, would a package of say

Cole, Stewart, 1st be at least a decent starting point for Staal? This would be during the off-season, not at the deadline. Or would it -have- to be a current top 6 NHL forward, and a blue-chip offensive prospect?

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02-15-2012, 04:47 PM
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Staal is great, McDonaugh is great.........how about we stop comparing our players and just be happy we have them both healthy

Del Zotto has bounced back
Girardi is a beast
Sauer would be a beast if healthy
Erixon is going to be solid
McIlrtah will crush people

things are good which is why the Rangers are in first

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02-15-2012, 04:47 PM
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One thing to note, the Rangers would have major reluctance to move Staal because Mike Sauer, who was a mainstay in our top-4 last season, has a pretty extensive injury history and is currently out with a concussion. Sauer's injury history + his current concussed status raises some concerns about the Rangers defensive depth moving forward and subsequently, their ability to endure injuries in the playoffs. Right now we have Straalman playing on our 2nd pairing with Del Zotto. Straalman has done an excellent job this season but he's not going to be a long term solution in that role. So that being said, if Mike Sauer were healthy and didn't have a history of being injured, Rangers might be in a position to see what kind of return they could get for Staal. However given the circumstances, and that Staal is signed to a very cap efficient/friendly deal for next 3 seasons, it's unlikely that they would consider shopping him. I am hoping he returns to bringing his A-game in the near future as it's been a bit of a slow going for him since his return.

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02-15-2012, 04:58 PM
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I think Sauer is eventually moved. They have to open up spots. Erixon can likely slide into the top 6 next yr with Stralman the spare but as soon as McIlrath develpes its tempting to move a Dman for a Forward

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02-15-2012, 04:59 PM
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Staal is signed on a great contract, and once he regains his form, he will remind people why he's not going anywhere.

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02-15-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Staal missed all of training camp. He's getting better every game. His subtle little plays on the board to take the pucks away from the opposition has been coming slowly. His outlet passes are getting back to where they used to be, and weve seen him throw some big hits of late as well.

id say hes about 80% right now of where he was last year, and its been getting better every single game.

he's also being sheltered a bit playing 2nd and 3rd pairing minutes rather than the huge horse minutes he was played last season.

Staal wears an A too, for a reason. Guy is a huge part of this team. I wouldnt be too eager to move him.
This is your answer right here.

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02-15-2012, 05:22 PM
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I think most all Rangers fans believe Staal is going to get his game back to where it was before he got hurt--a premier shutdown defenseman.

The question right now (for me anyway) is whether Marc is going to be good enough to supplant Ryan McDonagh from the first pairing?--and I for one don't think that is necessarily going to happen. McDonagh is great right now and has a lot of untapped potential. I really think he's going to be our best defenseman. Rangers future defense corps is going to be something special. Girardi-McDonagh. Staal-Del Zotto. Sauer (who is out with a concussion) is a really solid stay at home guy. Excellent prospects in Erixon and McIlrath.
And Torts has Stralman playing at near all star level and Eminger gives him a gritty efficient game too.
And I like Bickel a lot as well. Hear a lot that it's all Lundqvist but our defensive corps has been excellent this year.

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02-15-2012, 05:32 PM
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Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
did anyone else have a super immature reaction when reading this thread title?

anyway,

Staal is slowly getting his game back but has a ways to go. He's been decent but mostly being used as a third pairing guy

this board is pretty tempermental and very "what have you done for me lately" but i think a lot of posters still regard Staal as one of our more important assests

when he's on his game he's arguably the best shutdown dman in hockey....some people may be ready to abandon ship but i have 100% confidence that he will return to pre-concussion form in due time.
very funny. I agree 100% about Staal. He really was the best last year in a shut down role. Not even close to giving up on him yet. He likely won't return to form until next season.

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02-15-2012, 08:15 PM
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Reijo R
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Badgersandblues.......I think a critical element of this team's success is that they've kept this same young core (Staal, Girardi, Callahan, Dubinsky, etc) and they've grown together. I'm sure there's a good shot the Blues could put a fair package deal to offer, but I think the only way the NYR break up this chemistry and trade Staal is if:

1. A supreme 1st line scorer became available and that player would also have to be a Torts kinda guy, not someone like Kovalchuk or Kane. (yes, you people read that right, I don't think Sather/Torts would deal Staal for Ilya/Kane).

2. Cap space came into play, and somebody had to go. The NYR might have a hard time keeping every single young defensemen down the line. Staal and Girardi are top level guys, and McDonagh/Del Zotto are quickly ascending to that level. Mike Sauer, when healthy, looks to be a quintessential 2nd pairing type, and the org. also has a well-regarded prospect, Dylan McIlrath, down the pipeline. He was drafted 10th overall in 2010, a 6' 4" bruiser and feared fighter in juniors. He still needs development time, but they have HIGH hopes for him. Not sure how they'll be able to keep all of these guys a few years down the line, but you can never predict trades, injuries, etc.

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Old
02-15-2012, 09:39 PM
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Staal didn't have training camp, preseason, or the first 4 months of the season. Not to mention he couldn't work out or skate at all for a huge chunk of that time, where as he wouldve come into camp in top shape. So imagine that he's not even up to his own October yet at this point. He's going to come along very slowly, as there isn't much physical working out during travel portions and between game splits during the season.

I'm not expecting him to really come around to mid season form at all this season unless he can get a couple weeks of no travel where he can hit the weight room and work on bulking up a little like he would've pre-camp. Since there's no way that will happen, his entire season and playoffs will be limited.

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02-15-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Staal missed all of training camp. He's getting better every game. His subtle little plays on the board to take the pucks away from the opposition has been coming slowly. His outlet passes are getting back to where they used to be, and weve seen him throw some big hits of late as well.

id say hes about 80% right now of where he was last year, and its been getting better every single game.

he's also being sheltered a bit playing 2nd and 3rd pairing minutes rather than the huge horse minutes he was played last season.

Staal wears an A too, for a reason. Guy is a huge part of this team. I wouldnt be too eager to move him.
80% might be generous for Staal. We all read about his off-season training regime last season, STaal likes to come into camp with a fair amount of extra muscle, because there's not much strength training at all between games. Staal's game is physical for the most part, and there's just no way he's going to get stronger playing in games.

His contribution for us during this season is going to be smart play, a good stick, and hard work. I can't seem him being the Staal of last season at all this year. There's just no way he's going to have the chance to get his strength up to the levels of his normal vigorous off-season training regime.

I think this really sets him up for a monster season next year. He's learned the hard way how much of a benefit his strength training has been for him, and this season not having that hopefully he'll develop a seriously smart game. Those two ideas together might really take him to the next level next season.

Moving him at all should not be in the cards for this franchise. The thought of a full blown Staal, who looked poised for a breakout season, on top of Girardi, McDonagh, and a VASTLY improved Del Zotto is scary. Throw in a Stralman that has way more game than any of us imagined, and this team has a blue-line and goaltender that should make us perennial Cup contenders.

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