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The All Purpose Alexander Radulov Thread v1.0 (UPD: Does not have to clear waivers)

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Old
02-14-2012, 11:08 AM
  #151
Shea Weber
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
Even if Rads says he is coming back, Poile shouldn't trust him to honor that.
Which is pretty much what DP said...

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02-14-2012, 11:21 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by darth5 View Post
Some good discussion in here, finally.
In critiques of the organization's drafting, I wonder if we should consider that sniper draft picks tend to be more hit or miss. Whereas high character, sound 2 way players are a safer and easier to predict player profile. We all know in most years the difference between the first 5-6 picks and the bottom 24-25 is usually pretty significant. With the generally lower draft picks the team had to work with, are they just taking the lower risk players available? Because, really, the depth of the players drafted by this org is considered very high by most scouts, with the exception of top 3 scorers and snipers. Does anyone here dispute that???
That's absolutely the case. A good recent example: first round of the 2010 draft, we took Austin Watson, despite more offensively-oriented players being on the board-- Emerson Etem(having a historic season in the WHL with a goal per game, by the way), Quinton Howden, Nick Bjugstad, Evgeni Kuznetzov--because while all have more offensive ability than Watson, they weren't as "safe." At best, maybe Watson turns out to be a Jordan Staal or Ryan Kesler type player--not likely, but at worst, you've at least got Vernon Fiddler.

Same deal with taking Salomaki in the second this past draft, despite more "sniper" types being available. Salomaki may never make the impact, but he's at least a safe bet to make it.

Now, whether or not I agree or disagree with that drafting philosophy is for another time\discussion...just that I see where Poile goes with these picks.

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02-14-2012, 11:23 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
No, I didn't miss your inference. What I was saying was that even if Poile was 100% sure he was returning and wanted to stay, I wouldn't trust him. I'd say "that's great and if he signs a new contract, I'll make it work at that time".
OK, but I guess im not sure how that would work...

if you dont trust him even if he signs a new contract extension, do you trade someone like Wilson or Hornqvist to clear cap space for him??

if we trade for carter(or worse, salary wise, nash) and then rads signs for 5 years at 5 mil per, I dont see how we make that work unless either Suter or Weber leaves or we move two of Hornqvist, SK, and Wilson...

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02-14-2012, 11:46 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
OK, but I guess im not sure how that would work...

if you dont trust him even if he signs a new contract extension, do you trade someone like Wilson or Hornqvist to clear cap space for him??

if we trade for carter(or worse, salary wise, nash) and then rads signs for 5 years at 5 mil per, I dont see how we make that work unless either Suter or Weber leaves or we move two of Hornqvist, SK, and Wilson...
It's a fair question. What I'm saying is that Radulov has to re-earn that trust assuming Poile is willing to given him that chance (meaning a new contract).

Even if Radulov says (now) he wants to re-up with Nashville after he completes his ELC (potentially this season), Poile shouldn't restrict himself from any other moves until he sees how he fits in while completing his ELC and sees Radulov sign the new contract. Then you make the moves to fit (potentially get back under) into the cap.

That may mean moving SK and/or Hornqvist.

Tangentially, I think it would be foolish to give Radulov a new contract any longer than 2 years until he proves he can actually honor one without incident. Nor should that contract be anywhere close to $5 million per until he shows he can succeed at that level against NHL talent consistently (barring a huge playoff run on his part).

If he comes back, and if he has a great attitude and fits in well on the team, then I'd offer a contract something along the lines of 2 years @ $3 - $4 million per (max), depending upon his impact.

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02-14-2012, 11:58 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
If he comes back, and if he has a great attitude and fits in well on the team, then I'd offer a contract something along the lines of 2 years @ $3 - $4 million per (max), depending upon his impact.
Just my opinion, but I don't think he stays for those numbers. He'll want more, a lot more because his ego will tell him he's worth a lot more. I'm not saying Poile should/would give him big money, but I think he (and his agent) will ask for it.

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02-14-2012, 12:06 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Just my opinion, but I don't think he stays for those numbers. He'll want more, a lot more because his ego will tell him he's worth a lot more. I'm not saying Poile should/would give him big money, but I think he (and his agent) will ask for it.
I'm sure they would. Then, if I were Poile, I would take him to arbitration. Let's see what an arbiter would award based upon his NHL numbers. If it's reasonable, Poile could sign and Radulov could decide on a one or two year contract. I'd be willing to bet he doesn't see $5 million.

Course, Poile could just decide to trade his RFA rights instead of choosing arbitration.

Either way, Radulov has no leverage since he left prior to being unrestricted- barring changes from a new CBA (which won't be in place unless Radulov decides to honor his last year next season) or he successfully works the gray areas of the current CBA.

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02-14-2012, 12:15 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
It's a fair question. What I'm saying is that Radulov has to re-earn that trust assuming Poile is willing to given him that chance (meaning a new contract).

Even if Radulov says (now) he wants to re-up with Nashville after he completes his ELC (potentially this season), Poile shouldn't restrict himself from any other moves until he sees how he fits in while completing his ELC and sees Radulov sign the new contract. Then you make the moves to fit (potentially get back under) into the cap.

That may mean moving SK and/or Hornqvist.

Tangentially, I think it would be foolish to give Radulov a new contract any longer than 2 years until he proves he can actually honor one without incident. Nor should that contract be anywhere close to $5 million per until he shows he can succeed at that level against NHL talent consistently (barring a huge playoff run on his part).

If he comes back, and if he has a great attitude and fits in well on the team, then I'd offer a contract something along the lines of 2 years @ $3 - $4 million per (max), depending upon his impact.
I agree its a risk to sign him for more than two years but at the same time if we only sign him for two he will be a UFA at the end of that and if he is the real deal he will be gone or much more expensive.

Personally, I would do 4-5 years. I think he's worth the risk and is unlikely to flop against NHL talent. I would like to see his salary under 5 million but that may not be feasible.

If he bolts to Russia again we dont lose the money. If he stinks against NHL talent, he would most likely go back to Russia on a legit loan this time, which also saves us the money.

I dont see as much risk as you do, I suppose

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02-14-2012, 01:38 PM
  #158
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I don't know much about the CBA but could financial penalties or provisions be tied to defecting in a long term contract to help discourage him from repeating his poor decisions in the future?

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02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
  #159
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I don't know much about the CBA but could financial penalties or provisions be tied to defecting in a long term contract to help discourage him from repeating his poor decisions in the future?
he wouldn't be able to do what he did again under the new cba. he left while there was a loophole since the KHL had just started and they hadn't yet put in provisions for that into the cba.

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02-14-2012, 01:59 PM
  #160
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Gomez,

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Old
02-15-2012, 04:19 PM
  #161
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What are the best case and worse case dates for Rads finishing his KHL playoffs?

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02-15-2012, 04:43 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
What are the best case and worse case dates for Rads finishing his KHL playoffs?
Something like

Best: March 5th if they get swept

Worst: April 20th if they win the "Cup"

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02-15-2012, 05:47 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Something like

Best: March 5th if they get swept

Worst: April 20th if they win the "Cup"
The world championships start after that and end somewhere in mid-may. Radulov will play at the WC. That means he's not going to play in Nashville this season.

But for the future. I believe the only reason Radulov doesn't play in the NHL right now is money. And if he doesn't play in the NHL in the future, it's because of money. He made a contract of $8m/3y in 2008 with Ufa. And that's the official salary, that's been told to public. The real salary...well, it's Russia.

I didn't find his new contract's official pay, but it's probably much bigger than the 2008 contract. That's simply because the KHL is growing with a heck of a speed. And there's no real salary caps there. And the official salary and the actual salary do not meet, cause it's Russia. And because KHL is a hobby for the team owners (as in NHL it's a business).

Bottom line: I don't think Radulov is going to play for less than $5m/y. And even that might not be enough.

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02-15-2012, 06:06 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Have View Post
The world championships start after that and end somewhere in mid-may. Radulov will play at the WC. That means he's not going to play in Nashville this season.

But for the future. I believe the only reason Radulov doesn't play in the NHL right now is money. And if he doesn't play in the NHL in the future, it's because of money. He made a contract of $8m/3y in 2008 with Ufa. And that's the official salary, that's been told to public. The real salary...well, it's Russia.

I didn't find his new contract's official pay, but it's probably much bigger than the 2008 contract. That's simply because the KHL is growing with a heck of a speed. And there's no real salary caps there. And the official salary and the actual salary do not meet, cause it's Russia. And because KHL is a hobby for the team owners (as in NHL it's a business).

Bottom line: I don't think Radulov is going to play for less than $5m/y. And even that might not be enough.
Interesting perspective. We were hearing at one point that the KHL was going broke and teams were going to be folded and players were not being paid. The reason for this was said to be falling oil prices and the global economic downturn.

I take it from what you say this is not true??

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02-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Interesting perspective. We were hearing at one point that the KHL was going broke and teams were going to be folded and players were not being paid. The reason for this was said to be falling oil prices and the global economic downturn.

I take it from what you say this is not true??
I'd say that depends on the team. I've heard these kind of rumours too, but only about the smaller teams. This year, only rumours I've heard have been about Vityaz (their GM btw is Alexei Zhamnov).
And well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxzkibD2PnA
That's pretty much the way Vityaz plays... Worst team in the KHL.

The bigger financial problems are over, at least what I've heard. There was big crisis in 2008-2009 when the worldwide financial crisis struck, but what I understand, that's long gone nowadays. But well, there seems to be really little anything in the net about the KHL in english and my russian's bit rusty, so I can't swear I'm telling the truth...

Although I doubt the biggest teams to have any financial issues, including Ufa.

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02-15-2012, 07:00 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Have View Post
The world championships start after that and end somewhere in mid-may. Radulov will play at the WC. That means he's not going to play in Nashville this season.

But for the future. I believe the only reason Radulov doesn't play in the NHL right now is money. And if he doesn't play in the NHL in the future, it's because of money. He made a contract of $8m/3y in 2008 with Ufa. And that's the official salary, that's been told to public. The real salary...well, it's Russia.

I didn't find his new contract's official pay, but it's probably much bigger than the 2008 contract. That's simply because the KHL is growing with a heck of a speed. And there's no real salary caps there. And the official salary and the actual salary do not meet, cause it's Russia. And because KHL is a hobby for the team owners (as in NHL it's a business).

Bottom line: I don't think Radulov is going to play for less than $5m/y. And even that might not be enough.
Hmm...play in the World Championships or burn the final year of your ELC and sign an extension to play in the NHL? It's probably a ~$4+ mil question...

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02-15-2012, 07:54 PM
  #167
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Hmm...play in the World Championships or burn the final year of your ELC and sign an extension to play in the NHL? It's probably a ~$4+ mil question...
I think his decision is going to come down to a lot of talk with the Preds and league front offices on the subject of how the CBA's provisions that only a player "loaned" can return to the league from overseas without exposure to waivers. The word "loaned" is becoming the latest crux to the entire Radulov situation.

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02-15-2012, 08:14 PM
  #168
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Hmm...play in the World Championships or burn the final year of your ELC and sign an extension to play in the NHL? It's probably a ~$4+ mil question...
If you give Radulov $4m for coming after the KHL season to play the NHL playoffs with the Preds, I bet he'd do it every year

If you're talking about next year's pay, well...as I said, he gets probably $5m in the KHL, and that's taxfree.
And well, the "play in the NHL" isin't something that every hockey player seeks anymore. In Europe I mean. Don't know does Radulov care about the league's name where he plays or does he count other things as more important. But I know that there are many players in Europe that can choose between NHL and KHL, and they prefer KHL. For example in Finland, when you ask young players where they wanna play when they grow up, the answer nowadays is "NHL or KHL"...not "NHL!!!", as it used to be.

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02-15-2012, 08:42 PM
  #169
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Hmm...play in the World Championships or burn the final year of your ELC and sign an extension to play in the NHL? It's probably a ~$4+ mil question...
This. If Radulov wants to get out from under his ELC and all he has to do is play one regular season game to do that, I'm sure he will. Does he really care so much about the World Championships that he won't jump at the chance to be rid of his ELC?

The whole sitch is shady. Nobody really knows what the guy's contract even says...how long it is, for how much, whether there's an "out clause" or not...not exactly the most transparent process in the world. How can we judge whether he'll come back if we don't even know the details of his contract for sure?

I'll believe it when I see it, and I'll welcome him back whenever he comes. Especially if he chooses to do it this year...giving us a top 6 scorer for nothing...and leads us to the Stanley Cup, thereby convincing Weber and Suter to stay. Sounds good to me!

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02-15-2012, 09:19 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Have View Post
If you give Radulov $4m for coming after the KHL season to play the NHL playoffs with the Preds, I bet he'd do it every year

If you're talking about next year's pay, well...as I said, he gets probably $5m in the KHL, and that's taxfree.
And well, the "play in the NHL" isin't something that every hockey player seeks anymore. In Europe I mean. Don't know does Radulov care about the league's name where he plays or does he count other things as more important. But I know that there are many players in Europe that can choose between NHL and KHL, and they prefer KHL. For example in Finland, when you ask young players where they wanna play when they grow up, the answer nowadays is "NHL or KHL"...not "NHL!!!", as it used to be.
Except in this situation the player has expressed his desire to return to the NHL to the organization, and when he was here always talked abotu how he wanted to be one of the best players in the NHL. I'd say Radulov definitely wants to make a come back.

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02-16-2012, 12:21 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
This. If Radulov wants to get out from under his ELC and all he has to do is play one regular season game to do that, I'm sure he will. Does he really care so much about the World Championships that he won't jump at the chance to be rid of his ELC?
This seems to be the only way it makes sense for Rads to ever come back; he simply will be paid too much otherwise to put in the final year of that ELC. Or maybe as an old man, like Jagr, after he's made his money and he just want's a final run at a cup.

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02-16-2012, 02:25 PM
  #172
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I think his decision is going to come down to a lot of talk with the Preds and league front offices on the subject of how the CBA's provisions that only a player "loaned" can return to the league from overseas without exposure to waivers. The word "loaned" is becoming the latest crux to the entire Radulov situation.
I will repeat my disagreement for those who havent seen it.

we wont try to claim he was loaned, we will claim he is the same as a holdout, who didnt show up to play with time remaining on a contract, just like Yashin.

what he did after he didnt show up for his final ELC year is irrelevant because he was supposed to honor that year for us.

the waiver rule is designed to prevent hiding a player in europe to avoid the salary cap or simply to allow a guy to play a softer schedule then show up at playoff time not banged up from a full nhl season. the preds havent done anything wrong here and so they wont be punished.

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02-16-2012, 04:31 PM
  #173
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Radulov is currently suspended, correct? Suspended players aren't loaned, waived, sent down etc. they are suspended...

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02-16-2012, 05:50 PM
  #174
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Radulov is currently suspended, correct? Suspended players aren't loaned, waived, sent down etc. they are suspended...
thats what I keep saying.

101 and others think that the language of the CBA regarding players "under contract" in europe means rads could be subject to waivers... but I say that the nhl would not view Rads' KHL contract as valid since he obtained it under what the nhl would contend were illegal circumstances

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02-16-2012, 05:54 PM
  #175
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Hasnt this been discussed a million times. Radulov doesnt have to go through waivers!!

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