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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part IV | "Operation Dumba Drop"

View Poll Results: Which defenseman do you like most?
Ryan Murray 119 56.40%
Jacob Trouba 8 3.79%
Matt Dumba 45 21.33%
Griffin Reinhart 28 13.27%
Cody Ceci 1 0.47%
Morgan Rielly 10 4.74%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-15-2012, 01:29 PM
  #76
Soli
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Originally Posted by ThePerfectStorm View Post
I the title. Well done Master Soli!
Can't take the credit for it at all. Can't remember who first came up with it.

Maybe I will take credit for it.

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02-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I think people honestly overestimate how much teams are willing to pay to move up a few spots, especially if the players available in question are all fairly close.

If you were picking 6th (Reinhart lets says) and wanted to move up to 3 (Murray?) ... would you give up a Gagner or even a MPS to do so? Hellllllllll no.

I wouldn't even give up our 2nd. At best you're going to get a Omark level prospect for that type of move.

I always think of trading down a bit like when a team has a 3-on-1 break and they screw it up because they tried too damn cute with the puck rather than just making the obvious play.
Would really depend on what your scouts think, if they value Murray a ton more then Reinhart you have to make the deal even though it doesn't make sense to fans. I know that scouts get to see these guys a lot closer then we do and they take into account their entire character which separates guys quite a bit.

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02-15-2012, 01:37 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
Can't take the credit for it at all. Can't remember who first came up with it.

Maybe I will take credit for it.
Searching "Operation Dumba Drop" in the Advanced Search shows that some guy on the NJD boards said it first, but I think I said it first on the Oilers board, not having read the NJD board.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...ba+drop&page=3

Now I just wish myself or others on the Oilers board had the photoshop prowess of the San Jose Sharks board. Could make some pretty funny avatars.

Ugh I wish Murray had Dumba's dynamism. It's what keeps making me go back and forth in my mind between the two should we be in the position to draft 3rd overall.

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02-15-2012, 02:34 PM
  #79
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The "bust" potential of a prospect goes up after each selection, so that is a huge reason for keeping our pick. While there are definitely some nice players taken at each selection, typically, the best players come early in the draft, where we will be at. You can cherry pick any draft saying there was some better/good players taken later on, but when you look at all the ones that are worse, we should stay put.

We should be getting our team the best chance at getting the best player from this draft, not whatever is left over.

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02-15-2012, 03:03 PM
  #80
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Everytime I read a comparison for Grigorenko and the name Viktor Kozlov pops up, I shudder.

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02-15-2012, 04:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
If you were picking 6th (Reinhart lets says) and wanted to move up to 3 (Murray?) ... would you give up a Gagner or even a MPS to do so? Hellllllllll no.

.
No, but Gagner & MPS are (arguably for MPS) already in the NHL. D tend to take longer to develop, and (one would hope) our amateur scouts are still keeping tabs on guys drafted 3-4 years ago playing in the AHL or still overseas.

Maybe Murray = Reinhardt plus a Voynov to somebody else (and to our scouts Voynov tilts the deal strongly in our favor)

Anyway... if something like that is on the table, this is the year to do it. We (likely) i) won't be in the top 2, ii) if this board is any judge there is little to choose from the top D, iii) we might be inclined (after the 2 russians) to draft for position, iv) we need NHL-ready D....

Take a 2 for 1 if it is available to you.

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02-15-2012, 04:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by OilDrop37 View Post
Everytime I read a comparison for Grigorenko and the name Viktor Kozlov pops up, I shudder.
Agreed... huge fail if that is what he becomes.

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02-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #83
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilDrop37 View Post
Everytime I read a comparison for Grigorenko and the name Viktor Kozlov pops up, I shudder.
I think he's a lot closer to a poor man's Malkin then he is to Kozlov.

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02-15-2012, 04:47 PM
  #84
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I think he's a lot closer to a poor man's Malkin then he is to Kozlov.
His skating is nowhere near as good/dynamic as Malkin.

He only gets compared to Malkin because he's a Russian center.

Much closer to a poor man's Joe Thornton.

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02-15-2012, 04:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
His skating is nowhere near as good/dynamic as Malkin.

He only gets compared to Malkin because he's a Russian center.

Much closer to a poor man's Joe Thornton.
definitely agree with that, although im not sure why he's a "poor man's" thornton, i'd say that comparison is pretty bang on.

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02-15-2012, 05:03 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
His skating is nowhere near as good/dynamic as Malkin.

He only gets compared to Malkin because he's a Russian center.

Much closer to a poor man's Joe Thornton.
I would agree with his skating however I think his frame, puck skills/posession and skating style are closer to Malkin. He's definitely not explosive like Malkin but the way he skates with the puck is similar, IMO.

EDIT - Also, can we add a poll to this thread? I'm interested to see what most people think between Murray and Dumba.

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02-15-2012, 05:06 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
definitely agree with that, although im not sure why he's a "poor man's" thornton, i'd say that comparison is pretty bang on.
Thornton shows a more consistent effort and is a much better two-way player.

That's why I say a poor man's Thornton.

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02-15-2012, 05:14 PM
  #88
ponokanocker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
EDIT - Also, can we add a poll to this thread? I'm interested to see what most people think between Murray and Dumba.
Can we poll the Oilers scouts instead? I'd much rather have their opinion.

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02-15-2012, 05:16 PM
  #89
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
Can we poll the Oilers scouts instead? I'd much rather have their opinion.
Sure, if you want to wait until the end of June.

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02-15-2012, 05:43 PM
  #90
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Sure, if you want to wait until the end of June.
I have no problem with that!

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02-15-2012, 07:18 PM
  #91
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I just don't know who to pick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-15-2012, 07:42 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
Can we poll the Oilers scouts instead? I'd much rather have their opinion.
Should do all the top dmen imo. Not just those 2

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02-15-2012, 08:47 PM
  #93
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My current, totally gut feel Top 5 (for the Oilers) as I'd currently rank them:

1 Yakupov RW
2 Grigorenko C
3 Galchenyuk C
4 Rielly D
5 Vasilevski G

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02-15-2012, 08:54 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
My current, totally gut feel Top 5 (for the Oilers) as I'd currently rank them:

1 Yakupov RW
2 Grigorenko C
3 Galchenyuk C
4 Rielly D
5 Vasilevski G
I'd bump Galchenyuk to 5 and throw in Dumba and Reinhart at 3 and 4

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02-15-2012, 10:47 PM
  #95
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I think the Oil will play their way out of the 2 spot with a healthy lineup. If they don't I'm torn. My general belief is to take a forward first when drafting that high. I also feel the Oil pipeline still needs top six talent upfront. Pitlick may get there, Harki and Hamilton I view as tweeners top 9. Gagner may or may not be a 2C, although I like him more than some on this board, jury is still out.

If Oil pick 2, I think they need to take Grigorenko as likely BPA. However, if they draft at 3 or lower, my guess is a offensive first defenseman and I think that is Dumba or Reinhart.

The trees are coming on defense with generally good two way games in Klefbom, Marancin, and project Gernat. Teubert, Musil and possibly Plante (with a prime year Smid) provide crease clearing presence and snarl. Missing is that elite offenseman to drive the power play. I think that player is Dumba. Reinhart has the game too and the Oil have lots of looks at these two.

Trouba is in this vein. As would Rielly if he were not hurt. Murray, like many front running prospects has perhaps been overexposed and now his game is being picked apart somewhat. No doubt a big minute NHLer, but will his offense translate?

But the two kids in their back yard give them a ton of information. And I think confidence in deciding among an incredible d crop.

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02-15-2012, 10:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Thornton shows a more consistent effort and is a much better two-way player.

That's why I say a poor man's Thornton.
Is it just me or does it seem like you dump on all the players talked about in this years draft. Murray Grigs, seems who ever we compare them to they are not as big and slower... or something.

Any way, That being said I don't think grigs is as good as Thornton or Malkin. I would see him as a Anze Kopitar my self

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02-15-2012, 10:55 PM
  #97
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I added the defenseman poll to the thread.

Maybe next thread we'll do forward or just any position.

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02-16-2012, 01:03 AM
  #98
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Sorry, but I have to chime in here. This is 100% false. Dumba brings a physical game all over the ice, along the boards, in the corners, in front of the net, he isnt just an open ice hitter.

He also logs the most crazy minutes I have seen in quite some time, perhaps ever. Ive witnessed with my own eyes, and have had others corroborate Dumba being out on the ice for four to five minutes straight. Last Rebels game I saw Red Deer ran with four d for a majority of the game and Dumba was out on the ice every other shift.




This is also dubious. He is relied upon in every situation by the Rebels, pp, pk, es, they dont hide him at the end of tight games either. Yes, he is still prone to gaffes in his own end, and truth be told it is probably the weakest part of his game, but he has improved quite a bit in this area from last year to this year.

He does play in ALL situations. To suggest otherwise is just flat out false.
Have to agree with IATL, i just watched him play here in PG tonight, and they had 8 regulars not playing (injuries), and it sure looked like he was out there AT LEAST 1/2 the game, in all situations. He was on the ice for 2 goals against, but one was a PP goal, the other was an EN goal (which he was the one that gave it away in his own end after looking like he was gearing up for a nice looking rush, AFTER being on the ice for almost 2 full minutes at the end of the game). I'm not ripping him for that play, just pointing out that the kid has some serious stamina, he had several shifts that were probably close to 2 minutes long (not sure if thats the norm or if it had to do with them being shorthanded with injuries, but still, if we're looking for a guy who can eat big minutes, then he is probably the one to take).

He also had an assist tonight and there was one shift in the 1st in which he controlled the puck in the O zone for close to 20-30 seconds, he kept dangling around everyone, it was fun to watch...didnt see any big hits tonight, but it could be because the coaches asked him not to in case he gets hurt, dont think they could afford having yet another dman out, especially him.

I have now seen Dumba, Reinhart and Murray play live all within the last 2 weeks, and i would have to say its a really tough choice, because each one of those guys bring different skills that we need, so i think we should take the guy that brings whatever we need most (not sure what that is, since we kinda need a bit of everything).

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02-16-2012, 02:44 AM
  #99
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If Dumba regularly plays ~30 minutes in games... taking a counterpoint view... that could be viewed as a negative if he's putting up numbers similar to other dmen that are playing much fewer minutes per game.

It shows he has a lot of stamina and can play in all situations but it may also be a situation similar to Couturier last year. Couturier played piles of minutes and he actually dropped in the draft partly because of that. I think some scouts thought Couturier was doing huge minutes and that's why he was putting up the numbers he was.

It's a bit of a strange situation... your coach must trust you in every situation to have you out on the ice that much, but by the same token... since you are "THE" weapon on the team, you may look better than you actually are just because of all the time and chances you get on the ice.

Again, I look at this all as a Devil's Advocate point of view and it's just something to think about.

It's also too bad there aren't better stats kept in the Junior leagues as far as average minutes played per game.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 02-16-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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02-16-2012, 02:48 AM
  #100
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Ryan Ellis was playing close to 45 minutes a night for the Spitfires.

I don't think any scouts were knocking him for it.

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