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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread V

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Old
02-15-2012, 04:00 PM
  #76
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
The Fireworks select G George Hainsworth


Can somebody please PM the next GM i'm heading out the door.

Thanks
I never thought I'd see the day when Hainsworth was actually BGA when he was selected. I think he probably was.

(Edit: one of the least surprising picks of the draft, considering the thread you recently started on HOH)

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02-15-2012, 04:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I never thought I'd see the day when Hainsworth was actually BGA when he was selected. I think he probably was.

(Edit: one of the least surprising picks of the draft, considering the thread you recently started on HOH)
I don't know why but I don't even have him in my list that I kind of strike off as people pick players!

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02-15-2012, 04:23 PM
  #78
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It seems this year a lot of players are finally going where they deserve to go on an all-time basis, Hainsworth is definitely the BGA right now, I was wondering where he might've been selected.

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Old
02-15-2012, 04:52 PM
  #79
markrander87
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I'll go more into detail later, but Hainsworth 130 picks later then Thompson for example is immense value.

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Old
02-15-2012, 04:59 PM
  #80
overpass
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Hainsworth is interesting because he's always been remembered and rated highly in a historical sense for his 1928-29 season with 22 shutouts. But you could argue that Worters and Thompson were better that season when you include the playoffs.

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02-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  #81
EagleBelfour
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With our tenth selection, the 334th overall in this year All-Time Draft, l'équipe nationale de France est fier de sélectionner, from Montreal, Canada, le versatile ailier droit/centre/troisième gardien de but James Ogilvie 'Odie' Cleghorn



A player who doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves, for his offensive ability or his toughness.

- Stanley Cup (1924)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1919, 1925)
- NHL goal leader and runner-up in points (1919)
- Placed 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 9th in NHA goal scoring, 4th & 10th in assists
- Placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 8th in NHL goal scoring, 3rd & 10th in assists
- Placed 3rd in playoff goals and points (1919)
- Tied for 29th All-time with Nine top-20 goalscoring seasons (not just in his own league - based on study that assumes consolidation of all top leagues)

[...]

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=342

This is the biography of Odie Cleghorn, by seventies.

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02-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  #82
markrander87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Hainsworth is interesting because he's always been remembered and rated highly in a historical sense for his 1928-29 season with 22 shutouts. But you could argue that Worters and Thompson were better that season when you include the playoffs.
What a lot of people don't realize is that all of his NHL career took place after the age of 30. He spent what 12-13 years in the OHA sr league and WHL before stepping foot in the NHL.

Are all of the previous season worth nothing?

He has massive longevity and a great peak (1927-32 give or take)

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02-15-2012, 05:13 PM
  #83
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Odie Cleghorn is a fantastic pick.

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02-15-2012, 05:16 PM
  #84
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It's looking more and more like waiting until the middle of the pack to take a goaltender is the way to go.

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02-15-2012, 05:20 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
With our tenth selection, the 334th overall in this year All-Time Draft, l'équipe nationale de France est fier de sélectionner, from Montreal, Canada, le versatile ailier droit/centre/troisième gardien de but James Ogilvie 'Odie' Cleghorn



A player who doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves, for his offensive ability or his toughness.

- Stanley Cup (1924)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1919, 1925)
- NHL goal leader and runner-up in points (1919)
- Placed 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 9th in NHA goal scoring, 4th & 10th in assists
- Placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 8th in NHL goal scoring, 3rd & 10th in assists
- Placed 3rd in playoff goals and points (1919)
- Tied for 29th All-time with Nine top-20 goalscoring seasons (not just in his own league - based on study that assumes consolidation of all top leagues)

[...]

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=342

This is the biography of Odie Cleghorn, by seventies.

Very nice pick, he's a guy I looked at with my last couple selections.

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Old
02-15-2012, 05:23 PM
  #86
Rob Scuderi
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
What a lot of people don't realize is that all of his NHL career took place after the age of 30. He spent what 12-13 years in the OHA sr league and WHL before stepping foot in the NHL.

Are all of the previous season worth nothing?

He has massive longevity and a great peak (1927-32 give or take)
Those seasons definitely matter, but on the merits of his accomplishments, not just their presence.

He made the First All-Star Team in '26 which is more than I would have guessed. We don't seem to have second all-star teams so without voting records it's hard to know how he really fared the first two years. The first season his team missed the playoffs when the WCHL champion played the PCHA champion. In '25 his team made the playoffs but got bounced in the first round. '26 is when he won that first all-star award but his team got bounced again in the first round in a tough 1-0 OT loss during the deciding game.

One first AST out of three years in that league isn't too bad. Lehman did miss a bit of time during that season but it's not like he was the only talented netminder in that league anyways.

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Old
02-15-2012, 05:23 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It's looking more and more like waiting until the middle of the pack to take a goaltender is the way to go.
to be honest , even the worst goalie in this thing can get you to victory.That's what happens when you only have 32 players playing on 1 position , they are all strong.

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02-15-2012, 05:30 PM
  #88
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Odie Cleghorn is a fantastic pick.
Yeah - he was a beast.

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Old
02-15-2012, 05:35 PM
  #89
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Has anyone ever drafted Odie and Sprague on the same team in this?

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Old
02-15-2012, 05:39 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
to be honest , even the worst goalie in this thing can get you to victory.That's what happens when you only have 32 players playing on 1 position , they are all strong.
They aren't all strong. They are all measured against eachother, so the 32nd goalie sucks, the 25th goalie is weak, and the 15th goalie is mediocre.

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02-15-2012, 05:43 PM
  #91
overpass
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
They aren't all strong. They are all measured against eachother, so the 32nd goalie sucks, the 25th goalie is weak, and the 15th goalie is mediocre.
Only if you think that the 30th best goaltender in the world today sucks. Or the 6th best goaltender in 1965 sucked.

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02-15-2012, 05:46 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Only if you think that the 30th best goaltender in the world today sucks. Or the 6th best goaltender in 1965 sucked.
Well, the difference between Henrik Lundqvist and Steve Mason is Maaaaaaasssive.

That should be the same type of relativity in our league.

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02-15-2012, 05:49 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Only if you think that the 30th best goaltender in the world today sucks. Or the 6th best goaltender in 1965 sucked.
It's not about how good the #30 guy is, it's about how good that #30 guy is compared to the other guys.

As monster_bertuzzi just said, the gap between Henrick Lundqvist and Steve Mason is pretty big.

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02-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #94
overpass
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Steve Mason might not be in the top 100 goalies in the world today.

Unless you rank them

30. Steve Mason
31. Tuukka Rask
32. Cory Schneider

because you think the market for goaltenders is 100% efficient.

I think the #30 goaltender, whoever that is, is pretty good. Same with the #6 guy in 1965, whoever that was.

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02-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's not about how good the #30 guy is, it's about how good that #30 guy is compared to the other guys.

As monster_bertuzzi just said, the gap between Henrick Lundqvist and Steve Mason is pretty big.
That isn't a proper analogy though.

We're picking players all from one end of the bell curve over a span of time. Not a smattering of players from the curve at one time.

The difference between them is much smaller than between Lundqvist and Mason.

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Old
02-15-2012, 06:07 PM
  #96
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
That isn't a proper analogy though.

We're picking players all from one end of the bell curve over a span of time. Not a smattering of players from the curve at one time.

The difference between them is much smaller than between Lundqvist and Mason.
This is correct, and it goes both ways...the gaps between all players are smaller than they are at a single point in time in real life. The best guys like Gretzky and Orr won't be as far ahead of the average ATD player as they were ahead of the average NHL player went they were in the league. The same goes for the guys at the bottom of the pile, they won't be as far behind the average (or the best) as the worst at their position are in real life.

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Old
02-15-2012, 06:10 PM
  #97
jarek
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Has anyone ever drafted Odie and Sprague on the same team in this?
That's a unique situation where Sprague actually, at the expense of his team, would go to the aid of his brother if he felt he was being pushed around too much. I can't think of any other example in history where two brothers actually put aside the game to defend each other at all costs. I don't think drafting them on the same team is a good idea, for that reason.

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02-15-2012, 06:25 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by jarek View Post
That's a unique situation where Sprague actually, at the expense of his team, would go to the aid of his brother if he felt he was being pushed around too much. I can't think of any other example in history where two brothers actually put aside the game to defend each other at all costs. I don't think drafting them on the same team is a good idea, for that reason.
Marty and Gordie Howe both stood up for Mark.

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Old
02-15-2012, 06:26 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
That's a unique situation where Sprague actually, at the expense of his team, would go to the aid of his brother if he felt he was being pushed around too much. I can't think of any other example in history where two brothers actually put aside the game to defend each other at all costs. I don't think drafting them on the same team is a good idea, for that reason.
I can think of a situation like that involving brother-in-laws

One of whom can't be mentioned at this point in time.

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02-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #100
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Steve Mason might not be in the top 100 goalies in the world today.

Unless you rank them

30. Steve Mason
31. Tuukka Rask
32. Cory Schneider

because you think the market for goaltenders is 100% efficient.

I think the #30 goaltender, whoever that is, is pretty good. Same with the #6 guy in 1965, whoever that was.
Everyone in the ATD is at least ''pretty good''. Just like relative to the rest of the world, Steve Mason is a phenomenal goalie. But relative to the NHL, he is a stiff. Catch the drift? Same thing applies here to teams with the bottom tier of goaltender.

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