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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part IV | "Operation Dumba Drop"

View Poll Results: Which defenseman do you like most?
Ryan Murray 119 56.40%
Jacob Trouba 8 3.79%
Matt Dumba 45 21.33%
Griffin Reinhart 28 13.27%
Cody Ceci 1 0.47%
Morgan Rielly 10 4.74%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-16-2012, 04:43 AM
  #101
thadd
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1: Murray
2: Reinhart
3: Dumba

They all play in the WHL, which is a lot grittier than the other leagues. The goes a long way in my books. It's pretty much the opposite of the QMJHL.

Murray has decent size, off the chart IQ, super smooth skater and he's elite two way.

Reinhart is already looking big for NHL standards and he hasn't even been drafted yet. He's a right handed shot.

Dumba is also a right handed shot.... but his size worries me.

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02-16-2012, 04:46 AM
  #102
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Another thing... but is it just me or have we seen the WHL come a long way in the past decade?

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02-16-2012, 05:31 AM
  #103
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Another thing... but is it just me or have we seen the WHL come a long way in the past decade?
Cristian Djoos

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:58 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
Have to agree with IATL, i just watched him play here in PG tonight, and they had 8 regulars not playing (injuries), and it sure looked like he was out there AT LEAST 1/2 the game, in all situations. He was on the ice for 2 goals against, but one was a PP goal, the other was an EN goal (which he was the one that gave it away in his own end after looking like he was gearing up for a nice looking rush, AFTER being on the ice for almost 2 full minutes at the end of the game). I'm not ripping him for that play, just pointing out that the kid has some serious stamina, he had several shifts that were probably close to 2 minutes long (not sure if thats the norm or if it had to do with them being shorthanded with injuries, but still, if we're looking for a guy who can eat big minutes, then he is probably the one to take).

He also had an assist tonight and there was one shift in the 1st in which he controlled the puck in the O zone for close to 20-30 seconds, he kept dangling around everyone, it was fun to watch...didnt see any big hits tonight, but it could be because the coaches asked him not to in case he gets hurt, dont think they could afford having yet another dman out, especially him.

I have now seen Dumba, Reinhart and Murray play live all within the last 2 weeks, and i would have to say its a really tough choice, because each one of those guys bring different skills that we need, so i think we should take the guy that brings whatever we need most (not sure what that is, since we kinda need a bit of everything).
Thanks for the report.

Could you give us a brief description of each player's strengths/weaknesses and what kind of role do you think each would fill in the nhl?

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02-16-2012, 09:02 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
If Dumba regularly plays ~30 minutes in games... taking a counterpoint view... that could be viewed as a negative if he's putting up numbers similar to other dmen that are playing much fewer minutes per game.

It shows he has a lot of stamina and can play in all situations but it may also be a situation similar to Couturier last year. Couturier played piles of minutes and he actually dropped in the draft partly because of that. I think some scouts thought Couturier was doing huge minutes and that's why he was putting up the numbers he was.

It's a bit of a strange situation... your coach must trust you in every situation to have you out on the ice that much, but by the same token... since you are "THE" weapon on the team, you may look better than you actually are just because of all the time and chances you get on the ice.

Again, I look at this all as a Devil's Advocate point of view and it's just something to think about.

It's also too bad there aren't better stats kept in the Junior leagues as far as average minutes played per game.
Sorry, you know I respect your opinion, but you are way out in left field with this "theory". The kid scores points because he is very highly skilled, not because he is being run into the ground because his team only runs 4/5 dmen every night.

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02-16-2012, 09:45 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
My current, totally gut feel Top 5 (for the Oilers) as I'd currently rank them:

1 Yakupov RW
2 Grigorenko C
3 Galchenyuk C
4 Rielly D
5 Vasilevski G
ISS has Galchenyuk at 16.... man, if he actually fell that Low, Tambi better do everything in his power to get the pick to take him.

He COULD (saying that knowing it's unlikely, but possible) actually end up becoming the best player in this draft.

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02-16-2012, 10:27 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
1: Murray
2: Reinhart
3: Dumba

They all play in the WHL, which is a lot grittier than the other leagues. The goes a long way in my books. It's pretty much the opposite of the QMJHL.

Murray has decent size, off the chart IQ, super smooth skater and he's elite two way.

Reinhart is already looking big for NHL standards and he hasn't even been drafted yet. He's a right handed shot.

Dumba is also a right handed shot.... but his size worries me.
No....

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02-16-2012, 10:33 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
ISS has Galchenyuk at 16.... man, if he actually fell that Low, Tambi better do everything in his power to get the pick to take him.

He COULD (saying that knowing it's unlikely, but possible) actually end up becoming the best player in this draft.
I will be shocked if Galchenyuk makes it out of the top 10. I'm guessing he will drop a few spots more than he might have if he had played the whole year, but there is just too much potential to pass up if he's still on the board at 8 or 9.

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02-16-2012, 12:05 PM
  #109
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Craig Button is currently doing a live chat about the draft on the TSN website. Now I don't know a whole lot about this subject but I have always gotten the impression that Button is one of the worst guys in the business.

So if anyone here has a question or wants to call Button out for all the inane predictions he makes please do so now.

EDIT: To those of you leaning towards Dumba, here's Craig's opinion:


Craig Button:
Jeff, Not crazy at all on Matthew Dumba. I think he will be an impact player. This is where teams have to manage the draft & if they like Dumba, then they may be able to move back & get an extra pick & still get the same player.

This actually makes me like Dumba more, as I believe the opposite of what Button thinks is more often likely to be true.


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Old
02-16-2012, 11:23 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Thanks for the report.

Could you give us a brief description of each player's strengths/weaknesses and what kind of role do you think each would fill in the nhl?
No problemo...as far as their strengths and weaknesses, since i have only seen them once each (except Dumba, i saw him last year as well, but was paying attention mainly to RNH), so it is tough to judge each player from just one game, but from what i saw, my impressions were...

Murray - saw him first, he was pretty steady and calm, good passes, played both sides of the point (not just when he was covering for a line change, he would switch every once in a while). The only negative thing that i can think of off hand is that you dont really notice him that much out there unless you're specifically watching him.

Reinhart - looked good out there with Gernat (made me drool at the thought of those twin towers on our blue line)...between the 2 of them, they take up a lot of room...Reinhart has a bomb for a shot (he got off a few against us). Didnt throw his weight around too much, but he's a good skater...i was kind of distracted during the game by a former co-worker that i ended up sitting with during the game, so i missed some of the game because of it, but from what i saw, he looked good (like i said before, if you live in Edmonton, go watch that team, they are going to make a run at the Mem Cup this year IMO. You probably have a much better idea about GR than i do IATL since you have seen him quite a bit live.

Dumba - This was the guy i was really excited to see after seeing that hit he made at centre ice where he absolutely hammered the other player, then got challenged and promptly handed that guy his a**. I think (like i said before) that he wasnt really playing his normal style due to his team being down to 4 or 5 dmen, which i believe made him play more conservatively than normal. But he has incredible endurance, can play both sides (like Murray), he's an RHD, has a pretty distinct skating style and you can definitely see the offensive creativity in him. I guess the negative would be defensively (he isnt bad, just young still, that part will come around with time i'm sure).

Still a tough choice (and thats not even including Grigorenko, Reilly and the other top dmen that we cant see in the west like Ceci, Pouliot, Koekkoek, Trouba), i dont envy Stu at all.

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02-17-2012, 06:26 AM
  #111
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Sorry, you know I respect your opinion, but you are way out in left field with this "theory". The kid scores points because he is very highly skilled, not because he is being run into the ground because his team only runs 4/5 dmen every night.
Well I did say it was more of a Devil's Advocate POV rather than any hard-held personal opinion I have.

It's just something to think about with some of these players when they are playing ultra high minutes on their Junior teams. Will their performance in Junior translate to their NHL games where they invariably will play far fewer minutes and have less of a "premier role" in a league that is more loaded with talent and where they won't be essentially THE player depended on to play in every situation.

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02-17-2012, 08:57 AM
  #112
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I feel like this years draft is a crap shoot. A Russian or a Dman for all top 5 picks. Scary! I am taking Nail at 2 if he is there. If not I trade this pick for a young stud dman

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02-17-2012, 10:01 AM
  #113
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I really wish Morgan Rielly would have played more games this year...

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02-17-2012, 10:13 AM
  #114
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I really wish Morgan Rielly would have played more games this year...
Him, and Galchenyuk. Both guys would be talked about as top 5 picks IMO if they played, which would make the top 10 that much more impressive.

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02-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #115
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Him, and Galchenyuk. Both guys would be talked about as top 5 picks IMO if they played, which would make the top 10 that much more impressive.
Which is even better. If we can get another pick for Hemsky and then move it along with another pick to trade up a bit, we might just be able to walk away with our star dman AND a #2 center (say 19 like last year again and 33 for 12 or so)

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02-17-2012, 10:46 AM
  #116
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What happened to Ebert? Has he really fallen off that far where he doesn't even crack McKenzie's top 40? Guy was supposed to be right up there with Murray and Dumba.

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02-17-2012, 10:48 AM
  #117
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Which is even better. If we can get another pick for Hemsky and then move it along with another pick to trade up a bit, we might just be able to walk away with our star dman AND a #2 center (say 19 like last year again and 33 for 12 or so)
Dude if we can get Galchenyuk with a 2nd 1st rounder that would be incredible. Or even Reilly. However, there is no chance they'll get a 10-15 pick without giving up some other assets.
Hemsky will net us a 20-30 pick.

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02-17-2012, 10:51 AM
  #118
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Dude if we can get Galchenyuk with a 2nd 1st rounder that would be incredible. Or even Reilly. However, there is no chance they'll get a 10-15 pick without giving up some other assets.
Hemsky will net us a 20-30 pick.
That's why if they do plan to trade Hemsky they need to go hard at the bubble teams. Florida, Washington, Phoenix, LA. Those picks could end up anywhere from 10-20.

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02-17-2012, 10:56 AM
  #119
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That's why if they do plan to trade Hemsky they need to go hard at the bubble teams. Florida, Washington, Phoenix, LA. Those picks could end up anywhere from 10-20.
Hmm, I could see one of those teams gunning for Hemsky and that would be incredible however with his injury history and pending UFA status I suspect a more legit contender will probably be the most interested. Hopefully Tambo can get a bidding war going.

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02-17-2012, 03:34 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Dude if we can get Galchenyuk with a 2nd 1st rounder that would be incredible. Or even Reilly. However, there is no chance they'll get a 10-15 pick without giving up some other assets.
Hemsky will net us a 20-30 pick.
I think if the Oilers can pick up even a late 1st (20-30 range), they will still get a solid pick from that.

You just know at least one or two of the more highly rated prospects will likely slide as usually happens every year.

In that 20+ range there will likely be at least one of Subban/Vaselevski/Pouliot/Frk/Finn/Aberg/Hertl still available and any of those could be solid picks.

Obviously the higher up in the 1st round the pick is the better, but I think any additional 1st is a solid bet, especially coupled with the Oilers own high pick.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 02-17-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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02-17-2012, 04:29 PM
  #121
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My current, totally gut feel Top 5 (for the Oilers) as I'd currently rank them:

1 Yakupov RW
2 Grigorenko C
3 Galchenyuk C
4 Rielly D
5 Vasilevski G
Please tell me that you were just messing with us with Vasilevski at 5.

I know the Oliers need a goalie but if they took one with that top pick I might just cry like a baby. I have a hard eniugh time with defencemen in the top five but a goalie...I don't even want to think about such a thing.

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02-17-2012, 06:57 PM
  #122
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What happened to Ebert? Has he really fallen off that far where he doesn't even crack McKenzie's top 40? Guy was supposed to be right up there with Murray and Dumba.
I guess he's just been junk this year, not in McKenzie's top 40, he's the #70 NA skater on the NHL CS list.

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02-17-2012, 07:01 PM
  #123
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Please tell me that you were just messing with us with Vasilevski at 5.

I know the Oliers need a goalie but if they took one with that top pick I might just cry like a baby. I have a hard eniugh time with defencemen in the top five but a goalie...I don't even want to think about such a thing.
agreed.

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02-17-2012, 07:02 PM
  #124
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Girgorenko on Sportsnet 5pm Mountain.

Remparts vs Sea Dogs.

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02-17-2012, 08:15 PM
  #125
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Please tell me that you were just messing with us with Vasilevski at 5.

I know the Oliers need a goalie but if they took one with that top pick I might just cry like a baby. I have a hard eniugh time with defencemen in the top five but a goalie...I don't even want to think about such a thing.
Well I highly doubt he actually goes that high... but as far as the Oilers needs go... a premier franchise goalie prospect is something they could really use which is why I have him ranked that highly on my list. I think he likely will go somewhere in the 10-20 range of the 1st round but could slip deeper, always hard to judge with goalie prospects.

I think he's an exceptionally good goalie from the limited viewings I've seen of him. Is he worth a first round pick? Definitely imo, especially if the the Oilers get an additional 1st rounder from somewhere in a trade.

Sure it would be a tough choice to pick a goalie that high but if he turns out like I think he will, he will be a very solid pick and as important as any top forward or dman to his team.

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