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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread V

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Old
02-16-2012, 12:33 AM
  #326
Ziggy Stardust
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And Philly's goalies last year were Bobrovsky/Leighton/Boucher. This year it's Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky, which looks infinitely better than the trio from the previous year but isn't performing as such.

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02-16-2012, 12:36 AM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
strong understanding of the game of hockey right here folks
Nice ad hominen attack with no support...care to explain your comment?

Let me get you started:
Simmonds even +/-
Schenn -1

Now your turn to explain how they are negatively impacting the Philly GAA.

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Old
02-16-2012, 12:37 AM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Simmonds used to be in a more defensive checking role while also chipping in with offense when he was playing with Handzus on the Kings. I think he has less of that responsibility on the Flyers. It isn't his fault, but I would say the Flyers' lost their top defensive forward when they dealt Mike Richards, and they are going to really notice it during the playoffs.

It should also be noted, Richards was matched up against the Toews line during the Stanley Cup Finals in 2010. Richards held Toews to zero goals and only three assists during the six game series. And mind you, Toews went on to win the Conn Smythe.
I believe 2 of those 3 assists came on the power play.

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02-16-2012, 12:48 AM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Simmonds used to be in a more defensive checking role while also chipping in with offense when he was playing with Handzus on the Kings. I think he has less of that responsibility on the Flyers. It isn't his fault, but I would say the Flyers' lost their top defensive forward when they dealt Mike Richards, and they are going to really notice it during the playoffs.

It should also be noted, Richards was matched up against the Toews line during the Stanley Cup Finals in 2010. Richards held Toews to zero goals and only three assists during the six game series. And mind you, Toews went on to win the Conn Smythe.
Don't be expecting a reply to this one.

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02-16-2012, 12:57 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Simmonds used to be in a more defensive checking role while also chipping in with offense when he was playing with Handzus on the Kings. I think he has less of that responsibility on the Flyers. It isn't his fault, but I would say the Flyers' lost their top defensive forward when they dealt Mike Richards, and they are going to really notice it during the playoffs.

It should also be noted, Richards was matched up against the Toews line during the Stanley Cup Finals in 2010. Richards held Toews to zero goals and only three assists during the six game series. And mind you, Toews went on to win the Conn Smythe.


This!

Also Simmonds I believed has score the majority of his goals parked in front of the net on the PP. Which he wasn't doing on the Kings due to Handzus and Smyth (who is consider one the greatest ever at this). If you have those two on your teams why would you put Simmonds over them?!? Simmonds is the same player he was in LA he's just in a different system and in different situations. That's why you see more goals from him. If we didn't have Zues and Smyth on our team last year Simmer would have put up better numbers in LA.


On Philly... They're not a great playoff team! Philly is a regular season team. They have no defense or goaltending. Bryz is not an elite goalie! Dave Tippet and Sean Burke are elite coaches. (Example A: Mike Smith!) The Flyers are a carbon copy of the Capitals! Come the playoff time, fans in Philly are gonna be cursing the team and wishing they had Richards back and not have signed Bryz to a 9 year deal. I was talking to a Flyers season ticket holder just tonight at the bar and he told me he wished they had never made those trades!

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Old
02-16-2012, 01:12 AM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Nice ad hominen attack with no support...care to explain your comment?

Let me get you started:
Simmonds even +/-
Schenn -1

Now your turn to explain how they are negatively impacting the Philly GAA.
it's "ad hominem", but nice try.

Here's a hint: forwards have a big impact on a team's defensive statistics

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Old
02-16-2012, 01:34 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
I never said Sanford was a throw-in.
That's my point. Sanford would cost additional pieces to acquire, which LA doesn't really have. Therefore, I feel Zatkoff is adequate to back up Quick. Let's face it, the back up isn't starting more than 2 or 3 games the rest of the season anyway.

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Old
02-16-2012, 01:51 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Nice ad hominen attack with no support...care to explain your comment?

Let me get you started:
Simmonds even +/-
Schenn -1

Now your turn to explain how they are negatively impacting the Philly GAA.
Oh, hi, you again.

Whacha complaining about now?


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Old
02-16-2012, 01:58 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I believe 2 of those 3 assists came on the power play.
Correct you are. Toews registered his only even strength point in the series in Game 3, an OT loss against the Flyers. He registered his other two assists in Games 5 and 6 on powerplay goals both scored by Dustin Byfuglien. Richards shut Toews down offensively in that series.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:13 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
That's my point. Sanford would cost additional pieces to acquire, which LA doesn't really have. Therefore, I feel Zatkoff is adequate to back up Quick. Let's face it, the back up isn't starting more than 2 or 3 games the rest of the season anyway.
Sanford would be a throw in because if Bernier is involved in the deal Columbus isn't going to want to carry 3 goalies. Also I believe he's a ufa this off-season

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:15 AM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Nice ad hominen attack with no support...care to explain your comment?

Let me get you started:
Simmonds even +/-
Schenn -1

Now your turn to explain how they are negatively impacting the Philly GAA.
Last year:
Richards was a +11
Carter was a +27

This is with Richards playing against the opposing teams top line, something Simmonds and Schenn arn't doing.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:18 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKingsFan View Post
Sanford would be a throw in because if Bernier is involved in the deal Columbus isn't going to want to carry 3 goalies. Also I believe he's a ufa this off-season
I'd guess Columbus would be able trade Mason or Sanford elsewhere for some talent. So he's not a throw-in.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:25 AM
  #338
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Schenn and Simmonds are scoring many goals? Oh no, we must have "lost the trade"!

This trade is done over and over again, no matter how "good" the stats are of Simmonds and Schenn, both of whom I wish the best for. I like them both, alot. But that has little to do with Richards, who is, despite what numbers say (note: right now), levels ahead and someone you build a team around. Schenn might develop into that. Simmonds, not so much.

Once the real season starts, if will become apparent to both the Flyers (still wish the best for Simmonds and Schenn) and the Kings just what a player Richards is. Of course assuming people can't look beyond stats and recognize what impact a player has beyond just that. I suggest, instead of the "we lost the trade"-drama, to be happy for succesful careers for two former Kings who are doing good on a very successful club.

To be honest my concern is what a player Kopitar can turn into, but that is another discussion. He has such good "stats", but that means little if we want to believe this team can turn into a contender. With Richards we know and any Kings fan should be absolutely thrilled just how lucky we are to have him. Just an example (Kopitar and Richards) of why fantasy league shouldn't be confused to stanley cup hockey.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:41 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Lead Role in a Cage View Post
Schenn and Simmonds are scoring many goals? Oh no, we must have "lost the trade"!

This trade is done over and over again, no matter how "good" the stats are of Simmonds and Schenn, both of whom I wish the best for. I like them both, alot. But that has little to do with Richards, who is, despite what numbers say (note: right now), levels ahead and someone you build a team around. Schenn might develop into that. Simmonds, not so much.

Once the real season starts, if will become apparent to both the Flyers (still wish the best for Simmonds and Schenn) and the Kings just what a player Richards is. Of course assuming people can't look beyond stats and recognize what impact a player has beyond just that. I suggest, instead of the "we lost the trade"-drama, to be happy for succesful careers for two former Kings who are doing good on a very successful club.

To be honest my concern is what a player Kopitar can turn into, but that is another discussion. He has such good "stats", but that means little if we want to believe this team can turn into a contender. With Richards we know and any Kings fan should be absolutely thrilled just how lucky we are to have him. Just an example (Kopitar and Richards) of why fantasy league shouldn't be confused to stanley cup hockey.
I love Richards but Kopitar is significantly better. And I would go so far as to say Kopitar is also clearly better defensiveley.

Just my 2 cents... After watching every Kings games this year, and getting to see an all world defensive center in Mike Richards, I have even more respect for Kopitar defensiveley because IMO he has clearly outshined him defensiveley and in all other aspects of the game as well.

There is no doubt to me who is the better and more complete center.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:48 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Role in a Cage View Post
Schenn and Simmonds are scoring many goals? Oh no, we must have "lost the trade"!

This trade is done over and over again, no matter how "good" the stats are of Simmonds and Schenn, both of whom I wish the best for. I like them both, alot. But that has little to do with Richards, who is, despite what numbers say (note: right now), levels ahead and someone you build a team around. Schenn might develop into that. Simmonds, not so much.

Once the real season starts, if will become apparent to both the Flyers (still wish the best for Simmonds and Schenn) and the Kings just what a player Richards is. Of course assuming people can't look beyond stats and recognize what impact a player has beyond just that. I suggest, instead of the "we lost the trade"-drama, to be happy for succesful careers for two former Kings who are doing good on a very successful club.

To be honest my concern is what a player Kopitar can turn into, but that is another discussion. He has such good "stats", but that means little if we want to believe this team can turn into a contender. With Richards we know and any Kings fan should be absolutely thrilled just how lucky we are to have him. Just an example (Kopitar and Richards) of why fantasy league shouldn't be confused to stanley cup hockey.
Good post. In my short time here, it seems to be only 2-3 vocal minority posters who whine about the Schenn/Simmonds for Richards trade. I realize their opinions won't change, but I can't help myself from rebutting some of their ridiculous arguments from time to time because of how ecstatic I am that Richards is a King. Some people will never be able to see past the stat sheet or take external factors and other variables into account, and I get that, but it's so damn frustrating because Richards is one of the most dynamic players we've ever had, and will be a warrior for us for years.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:49 AM
  #341
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It hasn't been that long. Go watch the 2010 finals if you want to see what Richards is all about. There is no need to compare them, we haven't even seen either of their bests yet. We have Richards for a very long time, we will be savoring those two centers for going on the next decade...

Anyone throwing out flags of victory or defeat this soon after the deal are hopeless. We have got problems, but they sure as hell don't start at center.

No matter what happens on or off the ice, we have got this young core for the long haul and that is something to be happy about.

Now to get us some wingers...

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:38 AM
  #342
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From MayorsManor:

Quote:
In less than two weeks, most fans will turn their attention back to the action on the ice. For now, it seems all everybody wants to talk about are trade rumors. Who's leaving, who's staying, what would it cost to get this guy or that guy?

Here's a quick recap of the five things in play for the Kings at the moment:

- One of the most valuable assets the Kings have to bargain with is Jonathan Bernier. He's a young goalie, former first round pick and (in limited action) appears to be everything you can build a franchise around. However, trading him away is also one of the riskiest moves GM Dean Lombardi can make. Jonathan Quick is an unrestricted free agent next summer (July 2013) and he's an east coast guy. Would he rather play for a team closer to home? Also, his career numbers are almost identical to Nashville's Pekka Rinne - who recently signed a seven year deal for $7-million per. Can the Kings afford to pay him that much? Trading Bernier now increases Quick's leverage in negotiations down the road and exposes the Kings if he was to walk away in a year. Even so, as risky as it is, he's likely moving if Lombardi can land a sniper in a return. Any deal like that though would need to include other players because, with as talented as Bernier may be, he's still only played 43 games in the NHL. And you're not getting a top line forward straight up for a guy with 'potential.'

- If Bernier was to leave in a trade, expect the Kings to get a veteran back-up in return (either via that same deal or a separate one). It's highly unlikely you'll see either Manchester goalie as Quick's understudy come playoff time.

- Indications are Willie Mitchell is set to sign a contract extension real soon. This is good news for a Kings defensive core that has been one of the best in the NHL over the last few seasons. Signed in the summer of 2010, Mitchell is set to be an unrestricted free agent in July if a deal can't be worked out. Retaining him makes the Kings 'D' a solid position of strength and increases the likelihood one of their young blueliners will be traded - either before the deadline on February 27th or over the summer.

- Jack Johnson. You can't talk about who has been the best defensemen for the Kings this season and not mention his name in the discussion. He continues to improve his game and he just turned 25-years old. Most defensemen mature around 25-26. People tend to forget how young he is because he's been in the league for five seasons. What makes Johnson a candidate to move more than anything else is his contract. He's locked up long-term to a very favorable deal. It's not that the Kings want to get rid of him. It's that they may have to move him to get a high-end offensive player.

- Continuing with that theme, never forget that fans tend to overvalue their own players. Everybody may love Kyle Clifford, but he's not getting you Zach Parise in return. A package of Trevor Lewis, Colin Fraser and Alec Martinez isn't going to get you Jarome Iginla. That's not a knock on any of those Kings' players. Everybody inside a locker room plays a role. However, if you want a top-six forward in return, you're usually going to be dealing a front line defenseman, a top-six forward or a package of draft picks/prospects the other way. The Kings don't have many draft picks to offer at the moment, as they're without a second and third this year - which means they'll probably want to hold onto their first rounder. On the prospect side, Tyler Toffoli (LA's second round pick in 2010) is highly unlikely to be moved. The Kings need at least one, if not two forwards, so moving somebody like Dustin Brown just creates another hole.

Add all of those factors up and you can start to see what it isn't as easy to make deals as one might hope. This isn't NHL 12 on XBOX. Lombardi can't go out and just pick up every $7-million player that he wants. There are salary cap issues to consider as well as line-up cards to fill out every game. Robbing from Peter to pay Paul is a circular exercise.

To top it all off, the trade market is extremely thin this year - with way more buyers than sellers. So, with not enough players to go around, the few that are available will probably cost you more than they're worth because so many teams are bidding on them.

Do the Kings want Nash? Of course they do! But, they aren't getting him for what's being floated around the internet. Not even close. Sources told us last month the Blue Jackets were looking at Brown, Johnson, Bernier and a pick/prospect. That's way too rich - even for an elite player like Nash.

So, the most likely scenario has LA picking up one or two depth forwards at the deadline and having to wait until the summer to make a major move.


Last edited by SuperAlmeida: 02-16-2012 at 03:48 AM.
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Old
02-16-2012, 03:53 AM
  #343
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I don't understand the rationale behind trading Quick unless it's for a top-5 forward in the game. Hopefully Dean has some kind of idea whether or not Quick will take a few mil discount, but either way, I think he clearly needs to budget the guy into our future cap picture. As much as I love Doughty, you don't give Drew 7 mil per and then let Quick walk if you're Lombardi and buy into his whole philosophy.

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Old
02-16-2012, 04:13 AM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
From MayorsManor:
Quick is amazing.... We all love him. But Quick needs the Kings and our defense system just as much as we need Quick and his awesome skills.

Getting a player like Nash more likely means that Brown is a goner sooner then Quick. Because obviously Brown is gonna get a big raise from what he is making now.

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:20 AM
  #345
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With Parenteau holding off talks of an extension with the Islanders, I would like to see the Kings acquire him for Martinez and another prospect (like Moller or Holloway or Kozun).

Parenteau would give Mike Richards an actually talented winger who can setup plays and also shoot the puck. I think the assets that would be required to acquire Parenteau would also be less significant that the ones that would be used to acquire more of an impact player as part of a bigger trade.

I think Parenteau will easily command up to $3M in the open market and would be worth retaining, depending on how he performs of course. But this is all a pipe dream...
I would love to get P.A. Parenteau. He's a better version of Justin Williams and would be a much better option than Ales Hemsky. All three are playmaking wingers. I believe that Parenteau would improve our powerplay drastically, with more puck posession. So far it has been shots from the perimeter and it has not worked well without Smyth, Simmonds and Handzus. Furthermore, I believe that Parenteau could help DD back to 2009/10 form.

I would offer Martinez(+) for Parenteau.

My list:
1) Rick Nash
2) PA Parenteau
3) Steve Downie

I hope we get one of them.


Last edited by SuperAlmeida: 02-16-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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02-16-2012, 08:27 AM
  #346
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I I believe that Parenteau would improve our powerplay drastically, with more puck posession. I believe that Parenteau could help DD back to 2009/10 form.
I believe in a few things too. I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. But I don't believe a late bloomer without any playoff experience is going to help this team more than JWilliams. ;p

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Old
02-16-2012, 09:25 AM
  #347
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What does that have to do with the Richards trade? So their defense sucks...that has nothing to do with Schenn or Simmonds unless they have been playing defense.
Because yes, all forwards are only responsibl;e for offense and the goalies and d-men are solely to keep the puck out. Mike Richards has never met Jonathan Quick yet apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKingsFan View Post
Also Simmonds I believed has score the majority of his goals parked in front of the net on the PP. Which he wasn't doing on the Kings due to Handzus and Smyth (who is consider one the greatest ever at this). If you have those two on your teams why would you put Simmonds over them?!? Simmonds is the same player he was in LA he's just in a different system and in different situations. That's why you see more goals from him. If we didn't have Zues and Smyth on our team last year Simmer would have put up better numbers in LA.
So far this year, Simmonds has seven powerplay goals and 18 in total, so 38.9% of his goals are on the powerplay. In LA, three of 39 career goals he had with the Kings were scored on the powerplay, or 7.7%. Over his final two years in LA, Simmonds had 30 goals, only one was on the powerplay. SO the numbers seem to back what you are saying here. Without the powerplay goals, Simmonds would have 11 goals right now, which would put him on pace for 16 over an 82 game schedule. Last year he had 14 goals and the year before he had 16. Doesn't seem like Simmonds offensive production has gone up at all outside of the PP duties.

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I'd guess Columbus would be able trade Mason or Sanford elsewhere for some talent. So he's not a throw-in.
I think you overvalue goalies here. Sanford has been a journeyman, mostly a minor league journeyman, for his career and this is the only real substantial production he's given at the NHL level in his career, at the age of 32 and a UFA to be as well. Any team that picks him up is going to be doing so as a back up only, and, because he's a UFA to be, only playoff teams needing a backup would want him. There's barely any playoff teams that need a backup, so the market isn't very strong. At most, his value is a 3rd round pick. Considering the magnitude of a Rick Nash and/or Jeff Carter trade, I doubt Columbus would quibble about wanting a 3rd/4th/5th for Sanford, thus making him pretty much a throw in in any deal like this.

Not to mention the Kings likely would demand he be in it as they would need a backup, I doubt Columbus would let a deal like that fall apart because they'd rather juggle three goalies and hope to flip Sanford someplace, all for a 3rd or 4th.

And there's no way Columbus flips Mason, he's got another year on his deal as is and they are already talking about buying him out because no one wants him for that price tag.

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02-16-2012, 09:32 AM
  #348
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Another of my bad guess'

Seems like each year DL signs a old vet for the playoff push. My guess this season is Knuble. Doubt he costs much and he could be a PP specialist, much in the same way they hoped Hunter would be this season.

Knuble
for
4th

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Old
02-16-2012, 09:48 AM
  #349
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Aaron Portzline reporting Jeff Carter, Rick Nash, and Fedor Tyutin are all absent from CBJ practice this morning.

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Old
02-16-2012, 09:56 AM
  #350
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Can't we keep the "Richards sucks/Schenn & Simmonds are awesome" talk to the Mike Richards thread? I'm tired of the same posters saying the same stuff over and over. I don't read the Richards thread anymore, and would like to avoid these posts, but don't want to put those posters on ignore. I'd like to read this thread about trade rumors, not trades that already happened this past summer.

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