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2012 Winnipeg Blue Bombers/CFL Thread

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Old
02-16-2012, 09:45 AM
  #1
s1g
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2012 Winnipeg Blue Bombers/CFL Thread

Well, free agency is upon us, and things aren't looking too good for the Blue. We lose Carr, Labatte, and Oramaisonwu. It's not like our O-line wasn't questionable already, so losing Labatte is tough. Seeing Carr go also hurts. I was really looking forward to seeing him this season, especially in Crowton's spread offense.

You'd think that with Doug Brown retiring, and the likelihood of Fred Reid getting cut, that the Bombers would have some leftover money/cap space to throw around to retain these guys.


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02-16-2012, 09:48 AM
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I still can't comprehend how they tied up that much money in three quaterbacks... especially Pierce. The guy is a bandaid, has he ever even played a full season in his career besides college? What a joke.

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02-16-2012, 09:50 AM
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Did he not play all last season

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02-16-2012, 09:51 AM
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Car is more "easily" replaceable then Labatte.

Our o line sucked with him

and with the glass qb back...

he wont make week 5.


AND

Oramaisonwu said he wasn't even offered a contract by the Bombers.
They never even talked since the grey cup.

Sad that management would do that.

At least tell the guy you are going in a different direction.

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02-16-2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dallas Stars View Post
I still can't comprehend how they tied up that much money in three quaterbacks... especially Pierce. The guy is a bandaid, has he ever even played a full season in his career besides college? What a joke.

Yup. It's like spending a ton of money to buy a nice car stereo, but then not having enough money left over to buy CDs to get the most out of stereo, and not shelling out any money for the alarm to prevent the car stereo from getting stolen. Mack better have some good free agents in mind to replace the guys who left.

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02-16-2012, 10:14 AM
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I like the work Mack has done to date in the last year or so. Not saying that I think Mack is a genius or anything, but I think we are going to have to wait and see the totallity of the changes before knowing if the Bombers improved or got worse.

Losing Labatte hurts the most. Canadian O linemen are the glue of a CFL roster, but I don't know if I blame Mack all that much as it seems like Labatte wanted to go home to Saskatchewan. Losing Carr sucks, but until we know what $ he wanted, and what kind of guy Mack can get in the US to replace him, I don't think we can know for sure if we can say it was a bad move.

If Mack can get a guy as good as Carr (or hopefully better ), at half the price, then overall it's a positive move because it allows us to use the extra money on other players.

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02-16-2012, 10:14 AM
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... you guys do know that Buck Pierce is the lowest paid starting QB in the league right?

We didn't tie up a lot of money in the QB position at all.

I should just stay out of this thread, no good can come from it.

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02-16-2012, 10:30 AM
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Losing Labatte really sucks- but if he wants to wear Rider green then so be it. See you at Banjo bowl
Pretty sure that Mack has a few cards he can play to replace these guys. Time will tell

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02-16-2012, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post
... you guys do know that Buck Pierce is the lowest paid starting QB in the league right?

We didn't tie up a lot of money in the QB position at all.
Exactly, which makes it even more baffling that Mack can't spend a little dough to keep Carr. What's $15K when you're paying Buck such a small amount in relation to the other QBs in this league?

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02-16-2012, 11:09 AM
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Looks like Carr went to Edmonton for $15,000 more then what we offered. I'm sorry but that is a traitor.

I think we *****ed up big time, but who knows what Mack has up his sleeve.

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02-16-2012, 11:56 AM
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Looks like Carr went to Edmonton for $15,000 more then what we offered. I'm sorry but that is a traitor.
I was ok with him leaving for $15K/year extra. However, it was only $5K/year over 3 years which he left us for. And the worst part about it - Tillman said the offer was only good for as long as he was on the phone, which meant Carr's agent didn't even come back to the Bombers to let Mack match (which I'm sure he would have done. What's $5K?).

If that story is true, then screw you Greg Carr. You're talented, but you had the work ethic of a sloth anyhow. Lazy *******.

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02-16-2012, 12:05 PM
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I was ok with him leaving for $15K/year extra. However, it was only $5K/year over 3 years which he left us for. And the worst part about it - Tillman said the offer was only good for as long as he was on the phone, which meant Carr's agent didn't even come back to the Bombers to let Mack match (which I'm sure he would have done. What's $5K?).

If that story is true, then screw you Greg Carr. You're talented, but you had the work ethic of a sloth anyhow. Lazy *******.
I see you read my posts on Ourbombers.

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02-16-2012, 12:11 PM
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You're talented, but you had the work ethic of a sloth anyhow. Lazy *******.
I hear this from everyone...maybe it was a good thing then. Shouldn't be hard to find a Import WR.

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02-16-2012, 12:13 PM
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I wish they shock the CFL by landing Fantuz, but I highly doubt they will

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02-16-2012, 12:34 PM
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I have little hope for next season, but at least we'll have somewhere nice to watch them play.

The problem once again is the QB. I like Buck, but the offense struggled with him at the helm. He's not at an age or point in career where he is going to show much improvement, we need to look beyond him.

A great defense and lackluster offense does not win the Grey Cup, and the evidence is fresh in our minds.

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02-16-2012, 12:36 PM
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I am super excited to watch January do his patented spin o-rama while touching nobody move while Pierce gets killed this upcoming season, now that we have no left guard to even help cover for his incompetence. Our o-line was bad last year and with Douglas and LaBatte gone, how exactly is it going to get better? Muamba better be ready to start since we now need another NI starting on defense. Oh yah, and the most unique talent in the CFL left as well (although I am less concerned about this, the Bombers ALWAYS find import receivers for some reason).

Mack really really really sucks at free agency. Like crazy bad.

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02-16-2012, 12:40 PM
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No worries with Mack's fantastic drafting skills we must have OL's coming we had 2 1st rounders last year.

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02-16-2012, 12:43 PM
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We lost Donny O, Labatte, and Carr on the first day of FA. Brutal that we couldn't keep (we didn't even try with Donny O) at least one of Labatte or Carr.

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02-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveRaven View Post
No worries with Mack's fantastic drafting skills we must have OL's coming we had 2 1st rounders last year.
Quit making stuff up. We had 3! Pipeline must be busting through with talent...wait we spent two on the same position...when we already had a star young NI in that position in the system...that can't right...

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02-16-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quit making stuff up. We had 3! Pipeline must be busting through with talent...wait we spent two on the same position...when we already had a star young NI in that position in the system...that can't right...
My appologies I forgot .... Oh well This years 1st rounder will be a OL for sure ....

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02-16-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I am super excited to watch January do his patented spin o-rama while touching nobody move while Pierce gets killed this upcoming season, now that we have no left guard to even help cover for his incompetence. Our o-line was bad last year and with Douglas and LaBatte gone, how exactly is it going to get better? Muamba better be ready to start since we now need another NI starting on defense. Oh yah, and the most unique talent in the CFL left as well (although I am less concerned about this, the Bombers ALWAYS find import receivers for some reason).

Mack really really really sucks at free agency. Like crazy bad.
What are you talking about....

We still have Butler..... oh wait..........

Bombers o-line will easily be the worst in the CFL this year

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02-16-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I am super excited to watch January do his patented spin o-rama while touching nobody move while Pierce gets killed this upcoming season, now that we have no left guard to even help cover for his incompetence. Our o-line was bad last year and with Douglas and LaBatte gone, how exactly is it going to get better? Muamba better be ready to start since we now need another NI starting on defense. Oh yah, and the most unique talent in the CFL left as well (although I am less concerned about this, the Bombers ALWAYS find import receivers for some reason).

Mack really really really sucks at free agency. Like crazy bad.
Why does he really really really suck at it? Because he doesn't view it as the best way to build his team?

Does that mean other GMs really really really suck at scouting Americans or drafting? Because that's how Mack builds his roster and he seems to be doing a pretty good job.

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02-16-2012, 01:37 PM
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I was ok with him leaving for $15K/year extra. However, it was only $5K/year over 3 years which he left us for. And the worst part about it - Tillman said the offer was only good for as long as he was on the phone, which meant Carr's agent didn't even come back to the Bombers to let Mack match (which I'm sure he would have done. What's $5K?).

If that story is true, then screw you Greg Carr. You're talented, but you had the work ethic of a sloth anyhow. Lazy *******.
What kind of an agent doesn't have more than one phone line?

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02-16-2012, 01:43 PM
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Why does he really really really suck at it? Because he doesn't view it as the best way to build his team?

Does that mean other GMs really really really suck at scouting Americans or drafting? Because that's how Mack builds his roster and he seems to be doing a pretty good job.
Last year we lost a bunch of key players and did not bring any quality in. This year he....lost a bunch of key players and has not brought anybody in.

After a very poor year two years ago, we improved to about middle of the pack this year at best. Got a couple wins into the Grey Cup, but there is no way we get that lucky again unless the offense improves significantly. To improve said offense, we have lost the most unique and one of the best receivers in the CFL, and a really solid NI lineman.

I am FAR from sold on Macks drafting. He passed on a big mobile NON-IMPORT LEFT TACKLE!!! for a unproven LB that couldn't stay healthy, and was just a special teamer at that. Then he passed on the 2-3 best receivers on the draft to reach way down and take Etienne, who did not even see the field on offense last year. I like the Poblah comp pick, he looks like a keeper, hopefully he can stay healthy. These guys are young and have time, but with his reachs in the draft he has put a lot pressure on himself and those guys to perform.

As for all this quality American talent, I am not seeing it. Clarence Denmark was a very solid pickup. Jason Vega got the job done on the end. Anybody else who is a Mack pickup? Right now I can't think of any. Maybe Alex Suber? Pretty much the rest was brought it before him, or from other CFL organizations. Do not see that as unreal American scouting.

He better be bringing in some more help. Right now, the o-line is a complete and utter mess. Who's back, pylon January, healthy scratch Khan and average at very best Morley. That is depressing. The receiving corps has just 2 imports and 1 proven starting NI. 2 injury prone QB's and a still young prospect in Brink (and one of the injury prone is a young prospect himself). I like Garrett, but not ready to put all my eggs in the basket yet. The offense still needs work. Not to mention we are losing a starting NI on defense since Ormasionwu is not being brought back and Brown is retiring. And we still need a new kicker and punter since neither of ours are very good.

In short, Mack has done an average jobat best, I expect more.


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02-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Last year we lost a bunch of key players and did not bring any quality in. This year he....lost a bunch of key players and has not brought anybody in.

After a very poor year two years ago, we improved to about middle of the pack this year at best. Got a couple wins into the Grey Cup, but there is no way we get that lucky again unless the offense improves significantly. To improve said offense, we have lost the most unique and one of the best receivers in the CFL, and a really solid NI lineman.

I am FAR from sold on Macks drafting. He passed on a big mobile NON-IMPORT LEFT TACKLE!!! for a unproven LB that couldn't stay healthy, and was just a special teamer at that. Then he passed on the 2-3 best receivers on the draft to reach way down and take Etienne, who did not even see the field on offense last year. I like the Poblah comp pick, he looks like a keeper, hopefully he can stay healthy. These guys are young and have time, but with his reachs in the draft he has put a lot pressure on himself and those guys to perform.

As for all this quality American talent, I am not seeing it. Clarence Denmark was a very solid pickup. Jason Vega got the job done on the end. Anybody else who is a Mack pickup? Right now I can't think of any. Maybe Alex Suber? Pretty much the rest was brought it before him, or from other CFL organizations. Do not see that as unreal American scouting.

He better be bringing in some more help. Right now, the o-line is a complete and utter mess. Who's back, pylon January, healthy scratch Khan and average at very best Morley. That is depressing. The receiving corps has just 2 imports and 1 proven starting NI. 2 injury prone QB's and a still young prospect in Brink (and one of the injury prone is a young prospect himself). I like Garrett, but not ready to put all my eggs in the basket yet. The offense still needs work. Not to mention we are losing a starting NI on defense since Ormasionwu is not being brought back and Brown is retiring. And we still need a new kicker and punter since neither of ours are very good.

In short, Mack has done an average jobat best, I expect more.
I don't mean to be rude, but if you're not seeing the level of import talent Mack has brought in, you're clearly missing the boat.

Who else besides Denmark and Vega? How about Deon Beasley? Or Alex Suber? Or Chris Garrett? Or Marcellus Bowman? Or Rodney Fritz? Or Kenny Mainor? Or Bryant Turner? Or Alex Brink? Or Joey Elliott? Or Clint Kent -- I'll even credit that to Mack, considering Kent was out of pro ball for several years when Mack found him.

Young players all recruited by Mack who showed very well in their playing time, whether it was limited or extended. All players who are very young with the potential to get better. Something that I'd expect you would appreciate given your level of intelligence related to hockey. It's weird replying to this post because I feel like if someone made this type of post about our Jets franchise, you would be the first one to step in and break it down -- and for good reason.

You know your Jets. I know my Bombers. The talent level on this Bomber team is deep and it's stocked with young talented players. Even the import talent that is no longer with us has found work elsewhere, guys like Greg Carr or TJ Harris or Remond Willis.

Donny Oramasionwu is a good football player, I don't think anyone would deny that. However, with the direction our defense is going in, he wasn't someone that fit our roster. He was a Canadian playing a position where we don't plan to play a Canadian. Think of it like trying to fit a top 6 winger into a checking line role. Would it be nice to have the luxury? Sure. But the money is better invested into a player that fits the role you are looking to fill. We're leaning towards using a rotation that includes a defensive end and a linebacking platoon for our final NI spot. Donny O didn't fit that and he didn't fit our desire to use Bryant Turner + another import at the two DT spots. That's not on Mack. That's on Tim Burke's decision to build his defense how he likes it and really, are we about to tell Tim Burke he doesn't know what he is doing?

As for passing on a big, mobile left tackle in Scott Mitchell ... ask me where he's starting this upcoming season? The answer? He isn't. Why do you think Edmonton signed Rottier to play offensive tackle if Scott Mitchell is ready? For the record, we drafted our own "big mobile offensive lineman" last year too. His name is Brendan Dunn and he's a converted defensive lineman who was a CIS all-star at offensive tackle despite it being only his second year EVER on the offensive side of the ball. Just because he doesn't come with the pretty bow and ribbon that all the shiny early round draft picks come with, it doesn't mean he doesn't have potential to become a solid lineman for us. Look at Chris Greaves. We converted him from DL to OL 2 years ago and he's going to be starting for us this year. He started a couple games for us last year and there was no drop-off whatsoever. I'd say that is EXCELLENT scouting - finding those gems that everyone else is missing. Dunn was a 3rd rounder. Greaves? A 6th rounder. Don't sleep on big Paul Swiston either, who was our 2011 4th rounder and would've gone a lot higher if he had not been recovering from an injury that affected his combine performance.

As for your criticism of the Jade Etienne pick, tell me what these other highly touted receivers that we passed over did for their respective teams this past season? I know you're referring to Nathan Coehoorn and Marco Iannuzzi so let's take a look.

Nathan Coehoorn - 2 catches, 29 yards
Marco Iannuzzi - 8 catches, 65 yards

Great performances. Except once again, look at things a little closer. Coehoorn is 25 years old and he'll be 26 in September. Iannuzzi? He turns 25 in May. Jade Etienne? Just turned 22 years old in October.

That's a huge difference. Coehoorn and Iannuzzi should've made WAY bigger impacts than they did considering where they are in their developmental process compared to Etienne. Did they? No. So let's wait and see what Etienne does. Not like it's ever fair to judge prospects before their 3rd year of play anyways, despite your desire to do it with Henoc Muamba. And blaming him because he was injured? Really? Not even fair. Muamba was more than just a special teams guy, I seem to remember him being very much involved in our defensive rotation for the latter part of the season (including the playoffs.) Just because he doesn't come out of the tunnel being announced as a starter doesn't mean he didn't participate and get valuable reps, especially not on our defense. Go back and watch tapes, you'll see him taking defensive snaps and not looking out of place. And that's in his rookie year. Show me what other non-import rookies made big impacts last year when you get a chance. I'm sure you'll find there wasn't very many, if any. Because it's rare.

In closing, I really think you put yourself out there with this post and I can't honestly say I agree with any of it other than your point that the offensive line is a mess as it currently stands. But that's the key part of it -- "as it currently stands" -- given that the season is several months away and the players we have are young and are going to have every opportunity to make themselves into something, I think it's fair to wait and see how they do. Hell, I remember that's exactly how Labatte got his start and now we're deeming him one of the best OL in the entire league. Because he got an opportunity, even when nobody was expecting him to do anything with it.

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