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A little experiment regarding hipchecks

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:28 AM
  #1
DUHockey9
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A little experiment regarding hipchecks

I hope the mods don't mind, but I kind of wanted to conduct a little experiment, and, of course, follow it up with some discussion.

I don't want to say much, because I don't want to let words sway anybody's natural reaction.

So I will just ask...

Out of these 5 clips, does anything stick out to you? If so, what is it, and why?






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02-16-2012, 08:51 AM
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RevUpThoseGolfCarts
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All except Doug Funny's involve taking out a player moving forward with the puck.

He went low on Subban too so I expect 3-5 games.

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02-16-2012, 09:09 AM
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Beef Invictus
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A bunch of good hits and then Marchand trying to take out a knee.

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02-16-2012, 09:23 AM
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DUHockey9
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I want to hear a few more opinions before I share my own (and my impetus for starting the thread).

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02-16-2012, 09:25 AM
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Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
A bunch of good hits and then Marchand trying to take out a knee.
Ditto.

Doughty and Scuderi both have thrown some gem hipchecks while on the Kings. I'm trying to think of who else is known for them.

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02-16-2012, 09:31 AM
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PAZUZU
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the marchand/emelin hit is the only one that is a player in his offensive zone trying to deliver the hip check, all others are being done by players in their defensive zones.

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02-16-2012, 09:35 AM
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DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
All except Doug Funny's involve taking out a player moving forward with the puck.

He went low on Subban too so I expect 3-5 games.
IMO, this is the key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
A bunch of good hits and then Marchand trying to take out a knee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Ditto.

Doughty and Scuderi both have thrown some gem hipchecks while on the Kings. I'm trying to think of who else is known for them.
I actually DON'T think it was too low. Therfore, I don't think it was clipping as defined in the rulebook.

However, I also don't think it is a hipcheck AT ALL. I think anyone calling it a hipcheck is being far too literal in their interpretation of rules and/or definitions.

Quoting myself from a few posts I made on the main boards:

To me (and if people disagree, that's ok), a hipcheck is thrown on somebody coming at you, and trying to get AROUND you. You throw a hip into someone who typically is lunging and/or jumping around you, typically because it's last second and you CAN'T get him with a shoulder.

I don't understand what Marchand seems to be repeatedly doing which is aggressively approaching the puck carrier (so being the aggressor, really), only to dramatically drop his level at the last second to throw a hip.

I just don't get it. That's not what I, personally, consider a hipcheck.

You just can't allow a player that is providing the momentum to the hit (I don't know exactly how to to say what I mean....being the aggressor? initiating the hit? providing the momentum?) to be able to drop their level at the last second. The player getting hit is bracing for a shoulder to shoulder hit.

I personally think the definitions of clipping and a hipcheck need to be refined to account for this.

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02-16-2012, 09:37 AM
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Beef Invictus
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I agree completely. Marchand has become notorious for this, and it needs to be addressed before he seriously injures someone. Or, before other players begin doing it as well.

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02-16-2012, 09:38 AM
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DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZUZU View Post
the marchand/emelin hit is the only one that is a player in his offensive zone trying to deliver the hip check, all others are being done by players in their defensive zones.
See, I don't think the zone where it occurs is actually the issue. The issue is in which direction is the puck carrier moving.

Is the hitter using the puck carrier's momentum to propel him? Or is the hitter PROVIDING the momentum (and changing levels in the process)?

It's tricky, and it's something that simply isn't explicitly accounted for in the rules. Although perhaps it could be considered intent to injure?

But again, I'd like to see this type of thing explicitly stated.

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02-16-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I actually DON'T think it was too low. Therfore, I don't think it was clipping as defined in the rulebook.
I do think it was too low, because of what you go on to say. When you stick your hip out as an obstacle to someone trying to get around you, their feet are moving and they typically just get upended and fall down, you look cool etc.

The reason I say Marchand's was too low is because when you initiate contact with your hip (or anything) that low on a stationary puck handler, his feet are planted. So he's not going to go end-over-end. He's going to fold in two at the knees. Marchand has gotta hit him higher if he's going to hit him when he's stationary.

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02-16-2012, 11:40 AM
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Marchand is a dirty SOB. I dont care what anyone says. thats twice this season he could have severely injured a player.
You know what they say, what goes around comes around. He will get his some day and you wont get any sympathy from me.

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02-16-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Marchand is a dirty SOB. I dont care what anyone says. thats twice this season he could have severely injured a player.
You know what they say, what goes around comes around. He will get his some day and you wont get any sympathy from me.
I'm shocked there was zero response from Montreal.

DU, I completely agree with your assessment: a hip check is all about getting into the advancing player's trajectory and using his momentum against him. Marchand tried to submarine Emelin, and that's right in line with what got him suspended already this season.

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Old
02-16-2012, 12:49 PM
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Totally agree. Marchand just goes around diving at guys knees, thats not cool.

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02-16-2012, 01:44 PM
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PAZUZU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
See, I don't think the zone where it occurs is actually the issue. The issue is in which direction is the puck carrier moving.

Is the hitter using the puck carrier's momentum to propel him? Or is the hitter PROVIDING the momentum (and changing levels in the process)?

It's tricky, and it's something that simply isn't explicitly accounted for in the rules. Although perhaps it could be considered intent to injure?

But again, I'd like to see this type of thing explicitly stated.
i was only trying to answer the question you initially posed, but you are right. the issue is in which direction the puck carrier is moving, but the zone where it occurs is what influences the direction of both marchand and emelin. in the other 4 examples, both players involved are skating in the same direction (both essentially going north or south, not head-on) when the hip check is delivered. for the marchand/emelin hit, one is heading north and the other heading south. it's definitely not necessary for marchand to hit emelin like that, especially since he was already suspended for a similar type of hit this year.

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02-16-2012, 01:47 PM
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sobrien
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Quiet simply all the others were applying defensive hip checks, where as Marchand went on the offensive to lay a hip check...which is clipping.

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02-16-2012, 02:03 PM
  #16
JXC
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To me, "hip check" implies a check thrown to impede progress, not merely making contact with one's hip.

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02-16-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I'm shocked there was zero response from Montreal.

DU, I completely agree with your assessment: a hip check is all about getting into the advancing player's trajectory and using his momentum against him. Marchand tried to submarine Emelin, and that's right in line with what got him suspended already this season.
Yeah, I agree as well. As a huge fan of the hip check, I'm a bit worried that it will soon be outlawed completely if guys like Marchand continues to do BS like this. He'll end someones career eventually.

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02-16-2012, 03:00 PM
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DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Yeah, I agree as well. As a huge fan of the hip check, I'm a bit worried that it will soon be outlawed completely if guys like Marchand continues to do BS like this. He'll end someones career eventually.
I agree, that's why I think the definition of clipping needs to be expanded. If it were me, I'd make sure what Marchand did falls under clipping; so that it can't be mistaken for a REAL hipcheck.

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