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Rangers are interested in Nash (McKenzie: Rangers/Kings Strongest Suitors)

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Old
02-16-2012, 10:39 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Why?

Seriously, Why?

I love Chris Kreider. I really do.

Unless you think Kreider is going to be a sure first 40/40 guy, then not trade him today for a sure fire 30/30 (more than likely a 40/40 playing with some skill up front) with a legitimate chance to win the cup not just this year, but for the next few years as well.

I love Kreider. I don't think he's going to be a 40/40 guy. i think he's going to be a 30/30 guy. I also think that this team as currently constructed most likely will not win the Cup.

I dont think they can take a Penguins team with Crosby in 7 games. I dont think they could take a Detroit team in 7 games. I dont think they could take a Vancouver team in 7 games, etc.


You want to match up against a Penguins team with Crosby? You need to get another superstar forward up front. Otherwise, that team is going to DESTROY this team in a 7 game series.
Im with you, to a degree. Less so on the 'put us over the top stuff.' This team has a window to compete, and I think an opportunity will come along for a much better option during that time than Nash and his bad deal.

Where we are 100% in agreement is the aggrivation of so many posters insisting that prospects with zero NHL minutes are non-starters in a conversation to improve the team. Talk about how Nash's contract and cap hit bother you. Talk about how you are concerned a deal would adversely effect the chemistry of this roster. Those are legitimate concerns.

But dont tell me that you wont make this deal because of Chris friggin Kreider, or Tim Erixon, or whatever prospect is the flavor of the month. By the time they're ready to contribute in a meaningful way, that window I was talking about earlier is close to closing.

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02-16-2012, 10:40 PM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
And why is that? Because they will demand him?
Financially.

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02-16-2012, 10:42 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
And why is that? Because they will demand him?
Because:

a) it's been reported that CBJ have been after him for years
b) LW to replace a LW
c) need to give up cap hit to make it work beyond this season
d) have to give to get

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Old
02-16-2012, 10:43 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im with you, to a degree. Less so on the 'put us over the top stuff.' This team has a window to compete, and I think an opportunity will come along for a much better option during that time than Nash and his bad deal.

Where we are 100% in agreement is the aggrivation of so many posters insisting that prospects with zero NHL minutes are non-starters in a conversation to improve the team. Talk about how Nash's contract and cap hit bother you. Talk about how you are concerned a deal would adversely effect the chemistry of this roster. Those are legitimate concerns.

But dont tell me that you wont make this deal because of Chris friggin Kreider, or Tim Erixon, or whatever prospect is the flavor of the month. By the time they're ready to contribute in a meaningful way, that window I was talking about earlier is close to closing.
That's not exactly true though. I mean this teams "window" hasn't even opened yet. So to say it will be nearly closed in say 2 years from now is a bit of a stretch. This team as currently configured is primed for a very nice run for the next half dozen years. Trading for Nash would actually increase our chances the next couple of years, but likely close that window earlier.

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02-16-2012, 10:45 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Yeah thats it! We must keep Kreider because he has legit 1st line upside instead of acquiring a player who is already a 1st liner on a god awful team! Makes tons of sense dude!



Im not for acquiring Rick Nash. However, I believe the notion of not trading Kreider to acquire a 1st line talent who is capable of putting up 35-40+ goals and is at least a 70 point player who has been stuck on a god awful team since he was drafted is absolutely asinine.
You're being deliberately obtuse. If you make a post scoffing at the notion that trading Kreider is a big deal, then expect backlash for it. Kreider has premium value not only because he might be that premium caliber forward we're all looking for, but also because he'd be giving us that performance for a fraction of the price cap-wise. That's not something you just throw away.

Second, nobody's giving us a first-liner straight up for Kreider. Stop acting like that's what we're turning down. If you're for trading Kreider, then you're for trading Kreider and multiple other assets. That is an even bigger deal.

Third, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRADING KREIDER NOW, THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRADING HIM FOR RICK NASH. Bobby Ryan isn't walking through that door. Don't hide behind some kind of "well I wouldn't do it for Nash, because of his contract and their demands"-type statement. Nash is the only first-liner remotely close to the trade market. Either back off the trading Kreider is no big deal rhetoric, or embrace the Nash ludicrousness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
First and foremost, Rick Nash is a 70 point player if you ignore his rookie season.

Secondly, only 1 New York Rangers is on pace to eclipse the 70 pt mark this season, Marian Gaborik (on pace to score 72 points, makes 7.5 mil a year).

Thirdly Nash does it basically single handedly for the bulk of his career.

If you hate on Nash, then I'd expect to hear some hate on Gaborik.
Gaborik was a free agent. Nash is not. It's a false parallel.


Last edited by Zil: 02-17-2012 at 01:35 AM.
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02-16-2012, 10:47 PM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Why?

Seriously, Why?

I love Chris Kreider. I really do.

Unless you think Kreider is going to be a sure first 40/40 guy, then not trade him today for a sure fire 30/30 (more than likely a 40/40 playing with some skill up front) with a legitimate chance to win the cup not just this year, but for the next few years as well.

I love Kreider. I don't think he's going to be a 40/40 guy. i think he's going to be a 30/30 guy. I also think that this team as currently constructed most likely will not win the Cup.

I dont think they can take a Penguins team with Crosby in 7 games. I dont think they could take a Detroit team in 7 games. I dont think they could take a Vancouver team in 7 games, etc.


You want to match up against a Penguins team with Crosby? You need to get another superstar forward up front. Otherwise, that team is going to DESTROY this team in a 7 game series.
Because of the salary cap. And not the want, but the need, to be able to fill out the roster with low cost efficient impact players. And as such players start earning more money, and more expensive free agents are signed, more low cost talent needs to be drafted and developed.

In a vacuum, yes, you trade Kreider for Nash ten times out of ten.

This isn't a vacuum.

Forget the name. This team's top prospect isn't getting dealt. He's needed, and soon, to fill a role on the NHL roster.

Miller, Thomas, Fasth, St. Croix. There's no one in the system that makes Kreider expendable.

And dealing for Nash doesn't make him expendable. It only makes players like him more necessary.

It's a pipe dream to just add a player like Nash. Without the consequences the follow such a deal.

Loss of assets + adding that much more to the cap + no equal fill ins in the system + no means to add equal fill ins in the system due to trading the 1st round pick...all plays a part in this.

What team post-lockout won the Stanley Cup while giving up those kinds of assets mid-season.

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02-16-2012, 10:47 PM
  #757
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Just for the hell of it, lets say they do a deal, lineup could look like:

Anisimov/Nash - Richards/Stepan - Gaborik
Anisimov/Nash - Richards/Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Prust
Rupp - Mitchell - Fedetenko


Sign me up if the deal doesnt screw us

try and get them to take a deal worked around dubi and thomas


Last edited by NYRangers77: 02-16-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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02-16-2012, 10:47 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
Financially.
Well Dubinsky certainly doesn't "have" to go the other way to make it work financially. He might have to be moved eventually to allow the team to re-sign several other key players...but we can fit Nash in now if we wanted to. I mean we have about 2.5M in available space...so we just need to clear up 5.5 more. Keeping Wolski in CT clears another ~4. So effectively you could trade Anisimov with picks and prospects for Nash and he fits fine.

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02-16-2012, 10:49 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
That's not exactly true though. I mean this teams "window" hasn't even opened yet. So to say it will be nearly closed in say 2 years from now is a bit of a stretch. This team as currently configured is primed for a very nice run for the next half dozen years. Trading for Nash would actually increase our chances the next couple of years, but likely close that window earlier.
This team, at the elite level, is Lundqvist....followed by Gaborik and Richards. Middle of the pack team without them, worse without Lundqvist. Everyone loves the Stepans and McDonaghs of the world, but I think its wishful thinking to project them to be anything more than very, very good support guys.

Youre telling me that team has a legit window with a 35 year old Lundqvist, 37 year old Richards, and likely no Gaborik in 6 years?

Im not going to knock the way this team was built. The younger guys form a very, very strong core. But this team goes as those 3 guys go. And I dont think that window is 6 years

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02-16-2012, 10:50 PM
  #760
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Guys, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I honestly believe that if the Rangers had been willing to move Kreider along with one of the young roster players that have been rumored (Dubi/AA/Sauer before he was hurt), they'd already have acquired Ryan/Nash/Carter/whomever they want by now.

Coming up to the trade deadline, my guess is that if the Rangers make a trade for a "name brand" player, it comes down to what other package works for a partner that doesn't include CK.

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02-16-2012, 10:50 PM
  #761
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I'd really be shocked if Howson doesn't demand one of DZ, Staal, McD, or Girardi. And, according to Elliotte Friedman, he doesn't think Garrioch's rumor of Dubi, Kreider, and a 1st is going to cut it at all:

Quote:
That report of Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a first-rounder? You might as well march the Blue Jackets to The Horseshoe, Ohio State's famed football stadium, and have Tom Tupa punt the franchise to another city. Columbus absolutely cannot afford to make a mistake.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...lications.html

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02-16-2012, 10:52 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by NYRangers77 View Post
Just for the hell of it, lets say they do a deal, lineup could look like:

Nash - Richards - Gaborik
Anisimov - Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Prust
Rupp - Mitchell - Fedetenko


Sign me up if the deal doesnt screw us

try and get them to take a deal worked around dubi and thomas
I really doubt that would be the lineup. I really believe that the Rangers will make a play for Gaustad whether they get Nash or not. But potentially:

Stepan-Anismov-Gaborik
Nash-Richards-Callahan
Hagelin-Boyle-Prust
Rupp-Gaustad-Fedotenko

Scratches: Bickel.

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Old
02-16-2012, 10:54 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
You're being deliberately obtuse. If you make a post scoffing at the notion that trading Kreider is a big deal, then expect backlash for it. Kreider has premium value not only because he might be that premium caliber forward we're all looking for, but also because he'd be giving us that performance for a fraction of the price cap-wise. That's not something you just throw away.

Second, nobody's giving us a first-liner straight up for Kreider. Stop acting like that's what we're turning down. If you're for trading Kreider, then you're for trading Kreider and multiple other assets. That is an even bigger deal.

Third, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRADING KREIDER NOW, THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRADING HIM FOR RICK NASH. Bobby Ryan isn't walking through that door. Don't hide behind some kind of "well I wouldn't do it for Nash, because of his contract and their demands"-type statement. Nash is the only first-liner remotely close to the trade market. Either back off the trading Kreider is no big deal rhetoric, or embrace the Nash ludicrousness.



I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where we traded four or five major assets to acquire Marian Gaborik. Oh wait, we didn't. We signed him as a free agent. Nice job creating a false equivalency though.
First off don't tell me what I should/shouldn't expect. That kind of arrogance gets you nowhere fast.

You use the key word. "Might be"

Second, where did I say anything about Bobby Ryan?

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02-16-2012, 10:54 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This team, at the elite level, is Lundqvist....followed by Gaborik and Richards. Middle of the pack team without them, worse without Lundqvist. Everyone loves the Stepans and McDonaghs of the world, but I think its wishful thinking to project them to be anything more than very, very good support guys.

Youre telling me that team has a legit window with a 35 year old Lundqvist, 37 year old Richards, and likely no Gaborik in 6 years?

Im not going to knock the way this team was built. The younger guys form a very, very strong core. But this team goes as those 3 guys go. And I dont think that window is 6 years
Are you saying Hank will be washed up at 35?
Are you saying Gaborik couldn't be replaced by another 7M UFA forward in 2 years?

I'm not trying to say that every single player on this team will be with us for the next 6 years. But the core will be...and performing at a very high level. All of a sudden people think that we have to win it all right now? I don't see the same level of urgency.

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02-16-2012, 10:55 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I'd really be shocked if Howson doesn't demand one of DZ, Staal, McD, or Girardi. And, according to Elliotte Friedman, he doesn't think Garrioch's rumor of Dubi, Kreider, and a 1st is going to cut it at all:



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...lications.html
then I would pass

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02-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #766
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then I would pass
Absolutely.

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02-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I'd really be shocked if Howson doesn't demand one of DZ, Staal, McD, or Girardi. And, according to Elliotte Friedman, he doesn't think Garrioch's rumor of Dubi, Kreider, and a 1st is going to cut it at all:



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...lications.html
I agree 100%, which is why I would be shocked if a deal happened.

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02-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I'd really be shocked if Howson doesn't demand one of DZ, Staal, McD, or Girardi. And, according to Elliotte Friedman, he doesn't think Garrioch's rumor of Dubi, Kreider, and a 1st is going to cut it at all:



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...lications.html
Honest question:

When's the last time that a player - star or otherwise, good contract or bad - garnered a BETTER return than that...?




EDIT: Exactly. We hear these ridiculous demands every trade deadline. But, if Nash gets moved (especially with that "please-please-please-stay-in-Ohio" contract), Elliotte should be prepared to be disappointed.

(Sorry, couldn't resist making it a rhetorical question.)


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 02-16-2012 at 11:10 PM.
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02-16-2012, 10:58 PM
  #769
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Too bad Elliote Freedman isn't the one conducting the negotiations. So I respectfully accept his opinion on it but he knows just as much about what names are involved as we do.

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02-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #770
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Honest question:

When's the last time that a player - star or otherwise, good contract or bad - garnered a BETTER return than that...?
Excellent question.

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02-16-2012, 11:03 PM
  #771
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First off don't tell me what I should/shouldn't expect. That kind of arrogance gets you nowhere fast.

You use the key word. "Might be"

Second, where did I say anything about Bobby Ryan?
I can't tell you what you should and shouldn't expect, but you can call me asinine? This is a part where someone with less cool than I might tell you to go jump in a lake or some other such rudeness, but I digress... You said you'd be for trading Kreider for an established NHL first-liner. Bobby Ryan was just an example of the many NHL first-liners who are NOT available and are therefore irrelevant to the discussion. The only established NHL first-liner we might be able to get for Kreider at the deadline is Nash. If we aren't talking about Nash, then we aren't talking about anything.

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02-16-2012, 11:09 PM
  #772
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I just don't see how any rational fan would be willing to dump Kreider and other assets for Nash.

Kreider will be a minimum 25/25 locked up on the cheap.

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02-16-2012, 11:12 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by NYRangers77 View Post
Just for the hell of it, lets say they do a deal, lineup could look like:

Anisimov/Nash - Richards/Stepan - Gaborik
Anisimov/Nash - Richards/Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Boyle - Prust
Rupp - Mitchell - Fedetenko


Sign me up if the deal doesnt screw us

try and get them to take a deal worked around dubi and thomas
Looks good until you realize that we would tie up nearly 1/3rd of our cap on 3 forwards.

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02-16-2012, 11:17 PM
  #774
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Nuhgnbdh


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02-16-2012, 11:20 PM
  #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Honest question:

When's the last time that a player - star or otherwise, good contract or bad - garnered a BETTER return than that...?

Exactly. We hear these ridiculous demands every trade deadline. But, if Nash gets moved (especially with that "please-please-please-stay-in-Ohio" contract), Elliotte should be prepared to be disappointed.
It's not even just about the quality of the return, it's that the needs don't even stack up. Dubinsky and Kreider are both left wingers, and Columbus already has a similar player to Dubinsky in Umberger. They desperately need help on defense and goaltending. LA is in dire need of more offense and not only could they potentially match or exceed Garrioch's rumored offer, but they could do so in a manner that fulfills Columbus' needs adequately.

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