Let's say the Flyers did not have an obscene amount of penalties, are weren't shorthanded so much compared to the rest of the NHL, and see how it would have impacted Parent's statistics. In 1973-74, the Flyers were shorthanded 422 times to the league average of 257. They gave up 49 shorthanded goals. The league average was 49 shorthanded goals. I find this statistic mind blowing. Shorthanded 165 more times, and gave up the same amount of goals as the league average. 74-75 is similar, but less impressive with the Flyers giving up 10 more PPG against in 150 more opportunities. I'm going to scale the Flyers PK% to the league average of times shorthanded(not including the Flyers), and see how many PP goals they would have given up in the years Parent played for the Flyers when they were considered the "Bullies".
73-74: 29 PPG against(instead of 49)
74-75: 49 PPG against(instead of 74)
76-77: 46 PPG against(instead of 57)
77-78: 48 PPG against(instead of 66)
78-79: 56 PPG against(instead of 73)
Parent's GAA would have gone from
73-74: 1.89GAA(best in the league by .15) to 1.61GAA
74-75: 2.04GAA(best in the leaugue by .21) to 1.65GAA
76-77: 2.71GAA(6th among starters, .57 behind leader) to 2.51(tied for 5th among starters)
77-78: 2.22GAA(2nd in league, .17 behind leader) to 1.84(first in league by .21)
78-79: 2.70GAA(3rd in league, .40 behind leader) to 2.18(first in league by .12)
So, theoretically, if the Flyers were shorthanded the league average amount instead of a massive amount, Parent would have led the league in GAA four times. Now, there are some positive effects that the "Broad Street Bully" mentality had on the Flyers' playing defense, like guys being afraid to go in front of the net, but I think I can conclusively say that the mentality caused more negative effects of pucks going in their net than positive.
1893 Montreal AAA are proud to select C Pierre Turgeon.
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The 1987 1st overall draft choice of the Buffalo Sabres scored 515 goals, 1,327 points in 1,294 games. Although he didn't have the reputation as a great playoff producer, he had a very respectable 97 points in 109 post season contests.
Garnish starts off their 3rd line by selecting, with pick 357 of the 2012 ATD, Centre Don Luce.
Some stats on Luce:
-26 Career Short Handed Goals (33rd all time in NHL history)
-1975 Masterston Trophy Winner, 1975 All Star Game Apperance
-554 Points in 894 Career Games
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Exhibit A as to how hockey doesn't matter on ESPN:
Last night an ESPN program was discussing how the Detroit Pistons needed a hero citing the heroes on the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions and no mention of the Detroit Red Wings. All this despite the Red Wings probably being the most succesful team in Detroit right now.
Isn't Jack Adams a center who sometimes moonlights as a winger? I mean, obviously 70s won the draft with him as a LW last time, but I don't think it's ideal
seventies, I'm sorry I got snappy last night, but it is one of my personal pet peeves to see the intangibles of modern players blown grossly out of proportion simply because we have seen them. I was mostly not reacting to you, but when you demanded that I provide a rating of every single defenseman in the draft...well, I think I had a right to be a bit ticked about that.
Anyway, Boyle is a good even strength defenseman in the real NHL. In the ATD, I think he is about average for a 2nd pairing puckmover. The only way he is a liability relative to the competition is if you wear modern era blinders.
I was waiting for this one. Offensively and overall speaking, there is no doubt that other two-way 80s wingers like Propp and Larmer are better than him.
But – Propp at 214, Larmer at 263, or Taylor in the 340 range? He might be the best value there.
didn't taylor have longevity for his career over propp and larmer
Yeah these are things I know (trust me I learned them last year drafting Sologubov. Good luck with that this year LL). I was just wondering more if it ran deeper than that even. Like it seems like if you insulated him and surrounded him correctly (then again I guess we'd need to find out how he played, I assume he was a massive puck hog and puck carrier) he'd be pretty useful in the 350 range...
Like for instance, if you put him with a Milt Schmidt and a RW who doesn't always need the puck, wouldn't selecting him here be fine, putting him on the first line, then building a strong second line be effective? I am fully aware how weak Soviet hockey was, it's just he was pretty damned dominant.
he was the bobby orr of his era in russia. I'll take a great revolutional player from any era despite the draw backs of flack from others in the draft. Just how good would he be if he played in the. He won gold at the olympics in 1956 and he also played to the mid 60's till he was 40!
He's a very solid pick at this point, but I think it's a stretch to call him a power forward based on the information we have. He's an excellent 2nd line goal scorer with grit. Maybe a "power forward light."
He's a very solid pick at this point, but I think it's a stretch to call him a power forward based on the information we have. He's an excellent 2nd line goal scorer with grit. Maybe a "power forward light."
The conclusion I reached is that he was the John Leclair of his day.
Edit: I'm going to bed now, so, no front page updates from me 'til tomorrow.
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Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
he was the bobby orr of his era in russia. I'll take a great revolutional player from any era despite the draw backs of flack from others in the draft. Just how good would he be if he played in the. He won gold at the olympics in 1956 and he also played to the mid 60's till he was 40!
No trust me I tend to side with you on the upper echelon of Soviets in the 50s and early 60s, you just won't convince many others I think!
He's a very solid pick at this point, but I think it's a stretch to call him a power forward based on the information we have. He's an excellent 2nd line goal scorer with grit. Maybe a "power forward light."
As for Boyle, I think everything you say about him in San Jose is true, but he spent the majority of his career (still) in Tampa Bay, where his defense ranged from poor to adequate (so averages out to somewhat below average). I think over the course of his career, his defense has been "pretty good" on average, but "pretty good" in the NHL is below average for an ATD top 4 defenseman.
Ok, just going chronologically, I think nobody really cares about Boyle's time in Florida. We don't punish players for their pre-peak years here, or at least, I don't. So that leaves Tampa and San Jose. As I understand it, the knock on Boyle in his first three years in Tampa was that he was a great puckmover, but was porous defensively, which is probably true. But his defensive improvement came in 06-07 season, when he placed 4th in Norris voting and established himself as a star. The next season he was injured...and then he arrived in San Jose.
Of the eight relevant peak seasons of Boyle's career, then (counting this one), I would say that he has been good defensively ("good" in a real NHL sense) for five of them, and not good for three. Yeah, I guess you could say his defense has been "pretty good" on average over the course of his prime, but you also have to give him credit for playing very well in the postseason. He led that Tampa cup winner in +/- and in defenseman scoring during their cup run with essentially co#1 icetime (three guys all got roughly equal icetime), and he has been the outstanding performer in San Jose over the past three playoff runs.
Defensive nits can be picked with a lot of offensive defensemen (Zubov was terrible defensively in New York in his best scoring season, for example, but no one brings it up), but everyone always piles onto the contemporary players because we have actually seen their mistakes. The overblowing of intangibles (both good and bad) among modern players just drives me nuts. It is in my opinion the single most persistent distortion in the draft. I predicted it would happen when Boyle was drafted, and we immediately saw "liability" and "hurr-durr...dumb penalties" get posted. It's like a broken record around here. Dan Boyle is like the anti-Adam Foote. One gets lionized for his defensive play, and the other torn apart - both grossly out of proportion to reality in an all-time sense.
Last edited by Sturminator: 02-17-2012 at 02:47 AM.
The Pittsburgh Bankers are pleased to select C/D Neil Colville.
Could someone PM the next GM up?
He's a great selection at this point, I don't understand why he fell that far this time around.
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
Isn't Jack Adams a center who sometimes moonlights as a winger? I mean, obviously 70s won the draft with him as a LW last time, but I don't think it's ideal
I believe so. He's far more suited as a centre. Same situation apply to Nels Stewart for example.
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever
I suppose I'll take power-forward LW Gord Roberts to complete my second line.
That's the player I believe was better than Odie Cleghorn in a All-Time sense, but had no spot for him available on my team. I thought late 200's, early 300's was a fair spot for him, so at this point great pick!
Isn't Jack Adams a center who sometimes moonlights as a winger? I mean, obviously 70s won the draft with him as a LW last time, but I don't think it's ideal
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour
I believe so. He's far more suited as a centre. Same situation apply to Nels Stewart for example.
According to the bio seventies created, and when he was questioned about this last draft, Adams played a good chunk of wing time:
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Adams actually played all over the place. When you look at the playoff games in The Trail in which he was not listed as a "sub" (1920-1925), it seems he could never stay at the same position: Rover, Rover, W (most likely LW based on the other W, the other team, and the order they are usually listed), W (most likely LW), RW, C, C, C, C, W (most likely LW), W (most likely LW), C, C, C, C, C, Rover, W (most likely LW), C, C.
It's possible that he was only such a switch hitter in the playoffs and not the regular season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was like this often during his career. When I get to further research, that may reveal more.
