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Trade Deadline Approaching: Defender?

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Old
02-16-2012, 07:47 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I have a question about trading injured players. If a team like Toronto would want JVR, even if injured, is that allowed? I doubt they ever would do that, but is that but can a team knowingly trade for an injured guy?
I'm pretty sure you can. It's certainly uncommon though.

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02-16-2012, 07:54 PM
  #402
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Yes it allowed. The player still has to have a medical however.

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02-16-2012, 11:24 PM
  #403
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I think it's only frowned upon if the other team isn't aware of the medical issues

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02-16-2012, 11:24 PM
  #404
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Alright boys, now that we got Grossman, he helps out big time in our own end. Now I believe we really need to sure up the future with a young stud dman. Dreger and Lebrun both said Jack Johnson is available and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. He could be had and be our number 2 behind Kimmo next year and our number 1 after that. Also if we do get him we would still have room to get Suter if we play our cards right in the summer. I love the trade deadline

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02-16-2012, 11:37 PM
  #405
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Honestly, I think we should stay. If Mez is okay, it will be nice to see what happens.

Timonen-Coburn
Grossman-Carle
Mez-MAB/Gus
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02-16-2012, 11:39 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Alright boys, now that we got Grossman, he helps out big time in our own end. Now I believe we really need to sure up the future with a young stud dman. Dreger and Lebrun both said Jack Johnson is available and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. He could be had and be our number 2 behind Kimmo next year and our number 1 after that. Also if we do get him we would still have room to get Suter if we play our cards right in the summer. I love the trade deadline
Hypothetically I might do JVR for him.
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
Read-Couturier/Talbot-Voracek
Rinaldo-Couturier/Talbot-Sestito

Timonen-Coburn
Grossman-Carle
Meszaros-Johnson

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02-16-2012, 11:44 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by NewYorkFlyerFan View Post
Hypothetically I might do JVR for him.
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
Read-Couturier/Talbot-Voracek
Rinaldo-Couturier/Talbot-Sestito

Timonen-Coburn
Grossman-Carle
Meszaros-Johnson
yea that's still a potent offense and we would have a good young d-group to build off of. Would it be a clean swap of JVR for JJ or would either team need to add?

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02-16-2012, 11:47 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
yea that's still a potent offense and we would have a good young d-group to build off of. Would it be a clean swap of JVR for JJ or would either team need to add?
I think as of now it's fair value wise. Both are still relatively young and inconsistent. Although JVR is a bit younger and I feel like his ceiling is a bit higher. Maybe LA adds some sort of pick or something

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02-16-2012, 11:53 PM
  #409
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Jack Johnson is so damn overrated, just like the rest of the"powerhouse" LA Kings. Do not want.

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02-16-2012, 11:55 PM
  #410
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I would ABSOLUTELY give up JVR for Jack Johnson. It would benefit both teams. Watching a kings game now, they need serious help with their offense.

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02-17-2012, 10:01 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Devastate View Post
I would ABSOLUTELY give up JVR for Jack Johnson. It would benefit both teams. Watching a kings game now, they need serious help with their offense.
This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. People underrate our players that frustrate the fans (like Carle) so much and overrate other teams' players even worse because they never see them play.

Jack Johnson is a horrendous defenseman. He gets by on name recognition alone. And to some extent playing with Drew Doughty.

His +/- the last 5 years is as follows:
-19 (last among defensemen on his team, 2nd to last on team to Handzus)
-18 (last on team)
-15 (last on team)
-21 (last on team)
-10 (last on team)

And for those who like Corsi, he's had a negative corsi every single year and has been last or 2nd to last in Corsi among Kings defensemen every single season.

Jack Johnson would make this team WORSE than it currently is.

But of course, he was a defenseman who was drafted highly and his name isn't Matt Carle so we should trade JVR for him!

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02-17-2012, 10:36 AM
  #412
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JMFJ does his best work on the power play, which doesn't necessarily help us that much. It might be more palatable if he had 1 or 2 years left on his deal, and not 6.

The Kings are tough to figure out though because they have the 10 most SF/60 and best shooting percentage 5-on-5 in the league, yet they're the 30th ranked offense.

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02-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. People underrate our players that frustrate the fans (like Carle) so much and overrate other teams' players even worse because they never see them play.

Jack Johnson is a horrendous defenseman. He gets by on name recognition alone. And to some extent playing with Drew Doughty.

His +/- the last 5 years is as follows:
-19 (last among defensemen on his team, 2nd to last on team to Handzus)
-18 (last on team)
-15 (last on team)
-21 (last on team)
-10 (last on team)

And for those who like Corsi, he's had a negative corsi every single year and has been last or 2nd to last in Corsi among Kings defensemen every single season.

Jack Johnson would make this team WORSE than it currently is.

But of course, he was a defenseman who was drafted highly and his name isn't Matt Carle so we should trade JVR for him!
This.

I could probably name 10-15 users on here at least, that I have seen state, at one time or another, that Carle can't play defense for the life of him, and that he will easily be replaced by a much better d-man in the offseason. Don't get your hopes up, because there's not many available players to come in and eat up the same minutes, put up the same points, and play fairly decent d at the same time that Carle is doing right now. Is he worth 5+ million? I'd say no, since the money can be spent towards Suter. The trouble is, that is essentially the only d-man that really standsout as a true improvement. But if he accepts 4.25, for 4-5 years, somewhere in the vicinity of Coburn, I'd probably re-sign him.

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02-17-2012, 10:39 AM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. People underrate our players that frustrate the fans (like Carle) so much and overrate other teams' players even worse because they never see them play.

Jack Johnson is a horrendous defenseman. He gets by on name recognition alone. And to some extent playing with Drew Doughty.

His +/- the last 5 years is as follows:
-19 (last among defensemen on his team, 2nd to last on team to Handzus)
-18 (last on team)
-15 (last on team)
-21 (last on team)
-10 (last on team)

And for those who like Corsi, he's had a negative corsi every single year and has been last or 2nd to last in Corsi among Kings defensemen every single season.

Jack Johnson would make this team WORSE than it currently is.

But of course, he was a defenseman who was drafted highly and his name isn't Matt Carle so we should trade JVR for him!
Dude, I already showed you all the advanced stats for Matt Carle. Carle, defensively, is the worse on the team. Dont know how one can deny that.

But I do agree on Jack Johnson. He does seem to be pretty overrated on these boards.

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02-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Alright boys, now that we got Grossman, he helps out big time in our own end. Now I believe we really need to sure up the future with a young stud dman. Dreger and Lebrun both said Jack Johnson is available and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. He could be had and be our number 2 behind Kimmo next year and our number 1 after that. Also if we do get him we would still have room to get Suter if we play our cards right in the summer. I love the trade deadline
Johnson isnt going to help this team. He's bad defensively

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02-17-2012, 11:14 AM
  #416
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Leafs Fan here....Pierre Lebrun mentioned that after the addition of Grossman that the Flyers are not done. Mentioned Luke Schenn as a potential target still for the Flyers (probably for JVR). Through reading post's from both Leafs fans and Flyers fans it seems as though both are reluctant to give their asset for the other (which could be a good thing as it makes the value seem fair). I like JVR and Schenn and feel it would be a fair trade.....If this happens how do Flyers fans feel?.....By the way if my Leafs don't make it I hope to see you Flyers Fans take it all....Always admired your Fanbase for its love of their Flyers!

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02-17-2012, 11:17 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by One Man Wolfpack View Post
Leafs Fan here....Pierre Lebrun mentioned that after the addition of Grossman that the Flyers are not done. Mentioned Luke Schenn as a potential target still for the Flyers (probably for JVR). Through reading post's from both Leafs fans and Flyers fans it seems as though both are reluctant to give their asset for the other (which could be a good thing as it makes the value seem fair). I like JVR and Schenn and feel it would be a fair trade.....If this happens how do Flyers fans feel?.....By the way if my Leafs don't make it I hope to see you Flyers Fans take it all....Always admired your Fanbase for its love of their Flyers!
L.Schenn for Voracek.

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02-17-2012, 11:19 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by One Man Wolfpack View Post
Leafs Fan here....Pierre Lebrun mentioned that after the addition of Grossman that the Flyers are not done. Mentioned Luke Schenn as a potential target still for the Flyers (probably for JVR). Through reading post's from both Leafs fans and Flyers fans it seems as though both are reluctant to give their asset for the other (which could be a good thing as it makes the value seem fair). I like JVR and Schenn and feel it would be a fair trade.....If this happens how do Flyers fans feel?.....By the way if my Leafs don't make it I hope to see you Flyers Fans take it all....Always admired your Fanbase for its love of their Flyers!
It's not a fair trade.

And that said, if Schenn costs us JVR, then Schenn should not be coming to Philadelphia. Plain and simple.

Picks for Gill? Sure.

A 1st+ for Schenn? Sure.

You're not getting JVR.

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02-17-2012, 11:19 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by One Man Wolfpack View Post
Leafs Fan here....Pierre Lebrun mentioned that after the addition of Grossman that the Flyers are not done. Mentioned Luke Schenn as a potential target still for the Flyers (probably for JVR). Through reading post's from both Leafs fans and Flyers fans it seems as though both are reluctant to give their asset for the other (which could be a good thing as it makes the value seem fair). I like JVR and Schenn and feel it would be a fair trade.....If this happens how do Flyers fans feel?.....By the way if my Leafs don't make it I hope to see you Flyers Fans take it all....Always admired your Fanbase for its love of their Flyers!
Heres how I see it. Schenn is overrated like hell by Leaf fans and JVR is overrated like hell by Flyers fans. That being said, I am somewhat scared of how he is currently playing. NOT LOOKING AT THE FUTURE, I dont know how much Schenn would help us out this season. He hasnt been good, and while JVR also hasnt been good while he has played, I dont know if this deal would help us now.

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02-17-2012, 11:26 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Johnson isnt going to help this team. He's bad defensively
Does he also have personality issues? I heard a few other people grumbling about character concerns on other boards in rumors involving him. But no one said specifically why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Man Wolfpack View Post
Leafs Fan here....Pierre Lebrun mentioned that after the addition of Grossman that the Flyers are not done. Mentioned Luke Schenn as a potential target still for the Flyers (probably for JVR). Through reading post's from both Leafs fans and Flyers fans it seems as though both are reluctant to give their asset for the other (which could be a good thing as it makes the value seem fair). I like JVR and Schenn and feel it would be a fair trade.....If this happens how do Flyers fans feel?.....By the way if my Leafs don't make it I hope to see you Flyers Fans take it all....Always admired your Fanbase for its love of their Flyers!
It's hard to say. Most Flyers fan will just talk about how Schenn is struggling and try to make a lowball offer without admitting JVR hasn't exactly accomplished anything in the NHL ether.

If Burke is overly desperate to move Schenn because he knows he doesn't have a place on the Leafs anymore and doesn't want to wait until his NTC kicks in he may give in though and have to settle for a different package. IMO if he comes to Philly he will go for JVR. Otherwise he will probably land somewhere else.

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02-17-2012, 11:35 AM
  #421
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It's not a fair trade.

And that said, if Schenn costs us JVR, then Schenn should not be coming to Philadelphia. Plain and simple.

Picks for Gill? Sure.

A 1st+ for Schenn? Sure.

You're not getting JVR.
May I have a look into your crystal ball, sir? Many people consider that trade to be fair for both parties. From the sounds of things, Homer was the one that backed out, and rightly so. But it was close. Perhaps adding a 2nd to Schenn equalizes it a bit.

I for one don't like the trade as much as many others do simply because it's trading potential for potential. There's a chance we'll be kicking ourselves when we see JVR putting it all together in Toronto and scoring 30-40 goals a year. On the other hand, we might get Foote replica in Schenn, who helps us win the Cup in the next couple seasons. You just never know... I'd rather see JVR get shipped out in a package for an established top 2 d-man in the offseason.

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02-17-2012, 11:46 AM
  #422
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I wouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuld love to move Carle to Chicago. I bet they can trade their 1st. No one else is on the market.

We trade Calre for 1st to Hawks and trade our 2nd for another UFA d-men like Kubina.

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02-17-2012, 11:59 AM
  #423
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May I have a look into your crystal ball, sir? Many people consider that trade to be fair for both parties. From the sounds of things, Homer was the one that backed out, and rightly so. But it was close. Perhaps adding a 2nd to Schenn equalizes it a bit.

I for one don't like the trade as much as many others do simply because it's trading potential for potential. There's a chance we'll be kicking ourselves when we see JVR putting it all together in Toronto and scoring 30-40 goals a year. On the other hand, we might get Foote replica in Schenn, who helps us win the Cup in the next couple seasons. You just never know... I'd rather see JVR get shipped out in a package for an established top 2 d-man in the offseason.
The just I get from articles and opinions from both sides is that the "Meat" is there for this trade to happen give or take pieces from either side going each way. I do not feel that this is a STEAL of a trade for the Leafs. Schenn has struggled this year however, not long ago at all was our "Untradeable Prospect". As I know JVR was to Philly. Philly is still looking for a defensmen of Schenn's mold. Leafs are still looking for a Big Bodied forward in JVR's mold (As experts agree on both). I think both parties walk away happy in a year or two down the road looking back on a trade like this. Without our " Orange or Blue tinted glasses on".

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02-17-2012, 12:08 PM
  #424
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Probably no need for Schenn with Grossman.

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02-17-2012, 12:10 PM
  #425
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The just I get from articles and opinions from both sides is that the "Meat" is there for this trade to happen give or take pieces from either side going each way. I do not feel that this is a STEAL of a trade for the Leafs. Schenn has struggled this year however, not long ago at all was our "Untradeable Prospect". As I know JVR was to Philly. Philly is still looking for a defensmen of Schenn's mold. Leafs are still looking for a Big Bodied forward in JVR's mold (As experts agree on both). I think both parties walk away happy in a year or two down the road looking back on a trade like this. Without our " Orange or Blue tinted glasses on".
Unlike many people, I definitely do understand this year is an off-year for Schenn, just like the season was for JVR until he got injured. He was really solid for you guys last season, and with more consistency that comes with age, he could be a really good top 3-4 defender for years to come. The whole brother thing is also making it more attractive. I'm sure Luke and Brayden would really thrive in that kind of environment. JVR has shown glimpses of what he can do. If you watched the playoffs at all, he was literally putting the team on his shoulders and embarassing Chara, arguably the best defender in the world.
If the deal does in fact go through, I'll reserve judgement for at least a couple of years as to who, if anyone, won.

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