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Rangers are interested in Nash (McKenzie: Rangers/Kings Strongest Suitors) PART II

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Old
02-17-2012, 06:43 PM
  #101
EpicDing
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Originally Posted by msg View Post
McKenzie said that the Colombus wants Del Zotto in a trade package.
I rather add Carter instead of Nash. He has a lower cap hit and you can probably get him for draft picks and B level prospects.
This, I've been anti-Nash since this all started. I think he wouldn't fit well here, while Carter seems like he would.

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02-17-2012, 06:46 PM
  #102
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If we can get Nash by giving up DZ instead of Dubi, I have to do it.

Del Zotto, Wolski, Thomas, 1st, 3rd

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02-17-2012, 06:47 PM
  #103
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^ I thought the consensus towards Carter was that he'd be a disaster too?

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02-17-2012, 06:50 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
If we can get Nash by giving up DZ instead of Dubi, I have to do it.

Del Zotto, Wolski, Thomas, 1st, 3rd
Wait, you'd rather give up DZ than Dubi? Or did I misunderstand. To me MDZ is untouchable. He's our only real puck moving defenseman and he actually plays defense well.

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02-17-2012, 06:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
If we can get Nash by giving up DZ instead of Dubi, I have to do it.

Del Zotto, Wolski, Thomas, 1st, 3rd
That's even worse.

MDZ>Dubi.

If they want MDZ only way I do is if it's MDZ and a 1st.

Honestly, if they want MDZ/Girardi/McD/Staal, I just hang up.

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02-17-2012, 06:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
If we can get Nash by giving up DZ instead of Dubi, I have to do it.

Del Zotto, Wolski, Thomas, 1st, 3rd


I think giving up that package for Nash would be a fairly large mistake considering Del Zotto's progress this year & Nash's cap hit. MDZ has played very very well in top 4 minutes, and sometimes it's easy to lose sight of the fact that he's still only 21.

At this point, I think MDZ has more value to the team than Dubinsky in both the short & long term. I'd prefer not to trade Dubinsky for Nash either, though.

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02-17-2012, 06:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Wait, you'd rather give up DZ than Dubi? Or did I misunderstand. To me MDZ is untouchable. He's our only real puck moving defenseman and he actually plays defense well.
Guess I'm in the minority but I value Dubi a lot higher to this team than DZ. He's not our only puck-mover. McDonagh is showing shades of Neidermeyer-esque two-way play, Stralman has been a revelation and will likely be re-signed, Erixon is a good puck mover, and Staal, Girardi, and Sauer are all above average in terms of starting a breakout. I recognize DZ's raw talent, but if it's between DZ or Dubi, it's no question for me. Dubinsky is the heart and soul of this team. He and Cally hold this team together. You guys seriously underrate what he brings that doesnt show up on the scoresheet.

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02-17-2012, 06:56 PM
  #108
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^ I thought the consensus towards Carter was that he'd be a disaster too?
Well, he'd be better here than Nash, if I had to pick between the two. He understands the pressure of playing in a bigger market, if nothing else.

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02-17-2012, 07:00 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by EpicDing View Post
Well, he'd be better here than Nash, if I had to pick between the two. He understands the pressure of playing in a bigger market, if nothing else.
Or if nothing else, he's showed he produces on stacked teams, including a lot of meaningless goals, according the flyers fans. Nash has shown he can produce on crap teams.

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02-17-2012, 07:00 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
You guys seriously underrate what he brings that doesnt show up on the scoresheet.

I don't think it's a serious underestimation of Dubinsky as much as a proper estimation of a 21 year old d-man playing top-4 minutes & playing them very well. Saying MDZ has more value doesn't inherently mean that people are dismissing Dubinsky.

They're both very valuable players, and I would not want to trade away either for Rick Nash.

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02-17-2012, 07:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
I don't think it's a serious underestimation of Dubinsky as much as a proper estimation of a 21 year old d-man playing top-4 minutes & playing them very well. Saying MDZ has more value doesn't inherently mean that people are dismissing Dubinsky.

They're both very valuable players, and I would not want to trade away either for Rick Nash.
It doesn't inherently mean that, but that is what's happening. All of a sudden everyone wants to trade Dubinsky.

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02-17-2012, 07:03 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
I don't think it's a serious underestimation of Dubinsky as much as a proper estimation of a 21 year old d-man playing top-4 minutes & playing them very well. Saying MDZ has more value doesn't inherently mean that people are dismissing Dubinsky.

They're both very valuable players, and I would not want to trade away either for Rick Nash.
If you wouldn't trade Dubinsky in a deal for Nash, I'd seriously have to question your knowledge of the game, no offense.

Nash is a beast. He's been on a HORRIFIC team, with no talent around him. Put him on this team and he would be frightening.

Dubinsky is a spare part.

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02-17-2012, 07:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
It doesn't inherently mean that, but that is what's happening. All of a sudden everyone wants to trade Dubinsky.


I do agree with you in that I believe it would be a mistake to trade Dubinsky at this point in time.

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02-17-2012, 07:04 PM
  #114
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Wow. What the hell is it with people wanting to trade Del Zotto?

Last year at this time we all wanted a PMD. Lots of people said we needed one. Now we have a great one, and he is all of 21 years old.

Someone said it yesterday: If they deal MDZ it will be Zubov all over again.

Truth.

Edit: I also agree with Dante about Dubinsky. That will come back to haunt them.

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02-17-2012, 07:04 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
It doesn't inherently mean that, but that is what's happening. All of a sudden everyone wants to trade Dubinsky.
Hardly sudden. People have been trading Dubinsky since before his holdout.

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02-17-2012, 07:06 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
If we can get Nash by giving up DZ instead of Dubi, I have to do it.

Del Zotto, Wolski, Thomas, 1st, 3rd
don't see how our D is gonna hold together. Lose MDZ and say hello to Woywitka and Eminger on our bottom pairing again. While those two have shown a certain level of competence and I'd be ok with that in the regular season, that's not the blue line I'd want to dress for our first legit cup run in ages. Not to mention our PP is already bad enough, is Nash enough to make up for the difference? Are we ready to dress 5 forwards for our PP because that's what I think it'd start looking like. Additionally, I'm pretty sure Sather considers MDZ a core player and he's said on many occasions that he wasn't gonna trade a core player.

McD-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Woywitka-Eminger

gotta say, Jeff Carter being a right handed shot makes him intriguing. His $5.273M is also waaaay more manageable.

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02-17-2012, 07:07 PM
  #117
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Really you'd move MDZ our one offensive threat from the back end over a redundant player like Dubinsky?

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02-17-2012, 07:07 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
don't see how our D is gonna hold together. Lose MDZ and say hello to Woywitka and Eminger on our bottom pairing again. While those two have shown a certain level of competence and I'd be ok with that in the regular season, that's not the blue line I'd want to dress for our first legit cup run in ages. Not to mention our PP is already bad enough, is Nash enough to make up for the difference? Are we ready to dress 5 forwards for our PP because that's what I think it'd start looking like. Additionally, I'm pretty sure Sather considers MDZ a core player.

McD-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Woywitka-Eminger
Agreed, MDZ is a non-starter. I would not touch the current d-core. If that means that Nash goes elsewhere, so be it. Due to Nash's cap hit, if the trade is not on our terms with us as the clear winners, there is absolutely no reason to make a deal.

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02-17-2012, 07:07 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
If we can get Nash by giving up DZ instead of Dubi, I have to do it.

Del Zotto, Wolski, Thomas, 1st, 3rd
and lets trade Miller and Hagelin for Pahlsson and Dorsett while were at it

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02-17-2012, 07:08 PM
  #120
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If you wouldn't trade Dubinsky in a deal for Nash, I'd seriously have to question your knowledge of the game, no offense.

Nash is a beast. He's been on a HORRIFIC team, with no talent around him. Put him on this team and he would be frightening.

Dubinsky is a spare part.

You would question my knowledge of the game? That's laughable.

There's more to a trade than just than just stats and offense. You have no idea how Nash would perform on this team. Neither do I, and neither does anyone. It's speculation at this point. He is an offensive beast, but the matter is not purely that simple.

What I do know is that I wouldn't give up Dubinsky+prospect+1st for Nash when Nash's contract is $7.8M for 6 more years. You have to take things like cap ramifications, defensive ability, and team chemistry (especially for this year's team) into account. You seem to be looking at the situation from a very narrow perspective. And calling Dubinsky a spare part sells his potential & ability short.

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02-17-2012, 07:09 PM
  #121
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It'd be stupid to trade Del Zotto.

Pass. No del zotto and kreider in trades

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02-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
It doesn't inherently mean that, but that is what's happening. All of a sudden everyone wants to trade Dubinsky.
I'm not in the camp of wanting Nash at all, but this kind of statement is misleading.

People don't want to trade Dubinsky because they want to get rid of him. They want to trade him because of the mindset of "you've got to give to get."

Here's the thing though. In what we think should be a normal season, Nash is going to be putting up about 15-20 more points than Dubinsky. Is it really worth paying Nash nearly twice the salary and giving up other assets for an extra 15-20 points?

I love Rick Nash. In the words of my dad, who I agree with, he's an enormous hockey player. The benefit of having him just doesn't justify the cost of acquiring him.

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02-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #123
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Yeah, let's trade our best offensive defenseman who is 21 and also has been one our best overall defensman on a 1st place team.

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02-17-2012, 07:13 PM
  #124
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Here's the thing though. In what we think should be a normal season, Nash is going to be putting up about 15-20 more points than Dubinsky. Is it really worth paying Nash nearly twice the salary and giving up other assets for an extra 15-20 points?

I love Rick Nash. In the words of my dad, who I agree with, he's an enormous hockey player. The benefit of having him just doesn't justify the cost of acquiring him.

I agree, well said.

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02-17-2012, 07:14 PM
  #125
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You would question my knowledge of the game? That's laughable.

There's more to a trade than just than just stats and offense. You have no idea how Nash would perform on this team. Neither do I, and neither does anyone. It's speculation at this point. He is an offensive beast, but the matter is not purely that simple.

What I do know is that I wouldn't give up Dubinsky+prospect+1st for Nash when Nash's contract is $7.8M for 6 more years. You have to take things like cap ramifications, defensive ability, and team chemistry (especially for this year's team) into account. You seem to be looking at the situation from a very narrow perspective. And calling Dubinsky a spare part sells his potential & ability short.
agreed, Dubinsky has played well in the playoffs..what if Nash cracks and doesnt produce when the pressure counts.. id rather have the Rangers trade for guys who has won a playoff series or 2...guys like Ray Whitney, Pavel Kubina, Eric Staal (if he actually was available) players like that...No to Nash Carter or anyone without a playoff history

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