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Jack Johnson Might Be Available

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Old
02-17-2012, 11:59 PM
  #201
TSA0402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
No it simply isn't. -10, oh my goodness he's terrible. The Kings are what, the 4th best defensive team in the league. They don't get scored on that often and it's not like JJ is a
-30. IF LA was top ten in scoring combined with there excellent D, JJ would have a better number.

+/- is the most overused worthless stat that people judge a player by, especially a player that seems to have pissed in their wheaties.
Thats because Quick doesn't let in enough goals to accurately portray his defensive woes. Duh. Look at LA Kings plus minus and compare it to Johnson. Its always the same thing, Johnson plus minus terrible compared to the rest of the team. +/- becomes relevant when there is a continuous pattern. Obviously situations fluctuate but its ignorant to think that Johnson is a victim of circumstance his entire career.

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02-18-2012, 12:01 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Zdeno Chara his first 3 years his plus minus

-8
-27
-27


Stats don't lie
Except that Chara's +/- in his first couple of years with NYI were much more comparable to the other NYI d-men on his team.

The gap between JJ's +/- and the +/- of other LA d-men literally JUMPS at you.

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02-18-2012, 12:05 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
Except that Chara's +/- in his first couple of years with NYI were much more comparable to the other NYI d-men on his team.

The gap between JJ's +/- and the +/- of other LA d-men literally JUMPS at you.
Let's test that.

Chara - 27

Jonsson - 15
Biron - 13
Brewer - 11
Heward - 9

Yea, those are closely related.

2nd season at -27

Jonsson - 22
Hamrlik - 20


Better the 2nd season, but you probably should have done your research first....

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02-18-2012, 12:06 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
Then why does Doughty have a much better +/- than JJ year after year after year?

This year.... Doughty = 0, JJ = -10

Last year.... Doughty = +13, JJ = -21

Two years ago..... Doughty = +20, JJ = -15

It isn't like the +/- gap is negligible. It's insanely significant.

Hell, we're not just talking Doughty here. Every other LA d-men has a significantly better +/- than JJ year after year after year.

More stats, cool.

I look at this and clearly see maybe Doughty is starting to regress or, Johnson is showing vast improvement. In fact difference between Johnson and the rest of his linemate has dropped significantly. I think they fall anywhere from 0 to minus 10.. And this in a year where the team is lowest scoring in the league, and he is 2nd in ice time.
How do you read it?

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02-18-2012, 12:07 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Let's test that.

Chara - 27

Jonsson - 15
Biron - 13
Brewer - 11
Heward - 9

Yea, those are closely related.

2nd season at -27

Jonsson - 22
Hamrlik - 20


Better the 2nd season, but you probably should have done your research first....
What did I say..... "much more comparable".

And it's true.

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02-18-2012, 12:08 AM
  #206
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I can't fathom DL trading Johnson

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02-18-2012, 12:09 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Let's test that.

Chara - 27

Jonsson - 15
Biron - 13
Brewer - 11
Heward - 9

Yea, those are closely related.

2nd season at -27

Jonsson - 22
Hamrlik - 20


Better the 2nd season, but you probably should have done your research first....
That jumps out at me. That first year I see a difference of about 18 best to worst..

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02-18-2012, 12:12 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
What did I say..... "much more comparable".

And it's true.
Much more comparable?

A swing of -12...ok....


Johnson, this year, -10

Martinez - 6
Scuderi - 2
Greene - 1
Doughty 0...

There you go....comparable to the other D on the team...

As you were saying about stats not lying?

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02-18-2012, 12:13 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
That jumps out at me. That first year I see a difference of about 18 best to worst..
-9 might not be the best.....I stopped after proving my point...

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02-18-2012, 12:15 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
More stats, cool.

I look at this and clearly see maybe Doughty is starting to regress or, Johnson is showing vast improvement. In fact difference between Johnson and the rest of his linemate has dropped significantly. I think they fall anywhere from 0 to minus 10.. And this in a year where the team is lowest scoring in the league, and he is 2nd in ice time.
How do you read it?
JJ is -10 right now and is on pace to be a -15 over the course of the full season.

Doughty had a slow start this season to the holdout, partly explaining his dip in +/-.

LA has improved defensively this year from 7th ranked last year to 3rd ranked this year.

So JJ's improvement from -21 to -15 could be attributable entirely to the Kings improving defensively.

However, I'm not going to argue that because based on watching JJ.... I do agree that he has improved slightly defensively this year. He still sucks though.

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02-18-2012, 12:17 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
-9 might not be the best.....I stopped after proving my point...
It would be nice if you actually got the point.

For the record, Alec Martinez was + 11 last year.

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02-18-2012, 12:19 AM
  #212
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I have watched approximately 98-99% of the games Johnson has played as King and I'm one of his biggest critics. With that said, I can't believe some of the ignorant posts in this thread. Johnson is a #5 defenseman? He's the King's worst defender? Watch more games before spouting that junk.

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02-18-2012, 12:19 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Much more comparable?

A swing of -12...ok....


Johnson, this year, -10

Martinez - 6
Scuderi - 2
Greene - 1
Doughty 0...

There you go....comparable to the other D on the team...

As you were saying about stats not lying?
A-Mart is a 7th defenseman.....borderline minor league d-man. Leave him out of it.

Jonsson, Hamrlik, etc. were all key d-men who got about as much ice time as Chara.

Also, the full season hasn't been played out yet.

JJ still has 25+ more games to pile up the minuses. He's on pace to be a -15.

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02-18-2012, 12:21 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Seems like Eklund does indeed have sources. Even though the trade didn't happen, he did say JJ was in a package for Nash.

I think LA is the best partner for CBJ. JJ is signed long term so there is no chance he can bolt, and LA gets Rick Nash, who is overpaid but could revive his career in LA.
Funny how people think Eklund was in on this. HHR _ Hockey reported LA speaking to CBJ for Nash before Eklund did.

HHR also said Jack Johnson was in play first. While Eklund said it was Hunter, Bernier, Penner ... in other words pathetic. Just find this all very funny.

Offer is belived to be : To CLB: Bernier, Johnson + 1st, 3rd. To LA: Nash + Sanford. Will check up on this with others


HHR _ Hockey is a good source

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02-18-2012, 12:21 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
A-Mart is a 7th defenseman.....borderline minor league d-man. Leave him out of it.

Jonsson, Hamrlik, etc. were all key d-men who got about as much ice time as Chara.

Also, the full season hasn't been played out yet.

JJ still has 25+ more games to pile up the minuses. He's on pace to be a -15.
So...

JJ will stay on his pace....but the other defenseman...won't

That is your argument?

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02-18-2012, 12:23 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
I have watched approximately 98-99% of the games Johnson's has played as King and I'm one of his biggest critics. With that said, I can't believe some of the ignorant posts in this thread. Johnson is a #5 defenseman? He's the King's worst defender? Watch more games before spouting that junk.
He's not the #5 defenseman for the Kings. He's higher.

And that's the problem.

He's a #5 defenseman on a cup contender with upside to be a #4.

If you want to call yourself a cup contender and you have JJ playing key minutes on your second pair, you're in trouble.

LA would be smart to run Doughty, Scuderi, Mitchell, Voynov in their top two pairings with JJ on the bottom pair with Greene...... which is exactly what they've done quite a bit this year.

On a cup contender, JJ should be on the bottom pair at even strength and on the top PP unit. He has upside in the sense that he'll improve enough defensively that he'll eventually be able to play on the second pairing for a legitimate cup contender.

But no.... right now.... there's no way he should be playing second pairing minutes at ES on a cup contender.

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02-18-2012, 12:24 AM
  #217
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if JJ was so bad why was on the olympic team......

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02-18-2012, 12:25 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
He's not the #5 defenseman for the Kings. He's higher.

And that's the problem.

He's a #5 defenseman on a cup contender with upside to be a #4.

If you want to call yourself a cup contender and you have JJ playing key minutes on your second pair, you're in trouble.

LA would be smart to run Doughty, Scuderi, Mitchell, Voynov in their top two pairings with JJ on the bottom pair with Greene...... which is exactly what they've done quite a bit this year.

On a cup contender, JJ should be on the bottom pair at even strength and on the top PP unit. He has upside in the sense that he'll improve enough defensively that he'll eventually be able to play on the second pairing for a legitimate cup contender.
You think Andrew McQuaid and Johnny Boychuk on Boston would take minutes away from Johnson?

Wow....

I've thought you have at least seen Johnson play, but apparently you are just going straight off the stat book....

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02-18-2012, 12:28 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
So...

JJ will stay on his pace....but the other defenseman...won't

That is your argument?
What the hell are you talking about???

Read my post.

A-mart doesn't get enough minutes, so it's not fair to compare him to JJ. JJ should be compared with other LA d-men who get as much ice time. Comparing JJ's +/- to A-mart's +/- doesn't tell you a whole lot. A-mart is a minor league/7th d-man.

If your argument is that look..... JJ's +/- while worse is at least somewhat comparable to a minor-league/7th d-man's +/-.... then I rest my case.

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02-18-2012, 12:29 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
You think Andrew McQuaid and Johnny Boychuk on Boston would take minutes away from Johnson?

Wow....

I've thought you have at least seen Johnson play, but apparently you are just going straight off the stat book....
At even strength, yepppp!!!!!

Boychuk and McQuaid are solid defensively.

On the PP, nope. JJ gets the ice time.

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02-18-2012, 12:30 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
What the hell are you talking about???

Read my post.

A-mart doesn't get enough minutes, so it's not fair to compare him to JJ. JJ should be compared with other LA d-men who get as much ice time. Comparing JJ's +/- to A-mart's +/- doesn't tell you a whole lot. A-mart is a minor league/7th d-man.

If your argument is that look..... JJ's +/- while worse is at least somewhat comparable to a minor-league/7th d-man's +/-.... then I rest my case.
I showed you the comparison down to Doughty was -10 AFTER you said that the -12 swing between Chara and Jonsson was comparable.

You then said...yea,,,but JJ is on pace for -15....like he is the only defenseman that is going to continue on pace.

But hey, don't let facts get in your way....

BTW, at least watch an LA game or two.....Martinez is a minor league Dman? Yea....lol ok.

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02-18-2012, 12:30 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
At even strength, yepppp!!!!!

Boychuk and McQuaid are solid defensively.

On the PP, nope. JJ gets the ice time.
LOL well, at least we know of two teams you don't watch.

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02-18-2012, 12:31 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
You think Andrew McQuaid and Johnny Boychuk on Boston would take minutes away from Johnson?

Wow....

I've thought you have at least seen Johnson play, but apparently you are just going straight off the stat book....
I watched a lot of hockey and I stand by everything I've said.

I can tell you don't watch McQuaid and Boychuk very much by the way you're underrating their defense.

I'd take McQuaid and Boychuk over JJ defensively.... any time, any day, no hesitation.

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02-18-2012, 12:32 AM
  #224
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LOL well, at least we know of two teams you don't watch.
No, I should be the one who's LOL at you.

You should go to the Kings private threads. Kings fans rip JJ defensively.

Out here on the public threads, they talk him up because they want to prop up his trade value.

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02-18-2012, 12:34 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by willch878 View Post
No, I should be the one who's LOL at you.

You should go to the Kings private threads. Kings fans rip JJ defensively.

Out here on the public threads, they talk him up because they want to prop up his trade value.
Sure do, I'm one of those guys........and you still have no idea what your talking about

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