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Rangers are interested in Nash (McKenzie: Rangers/Kings Strongest Suitors) PART II

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02-17-2012, 10:35 PM
  #201
Bob Richards
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Getting somewhat back on topic, I agree with Zenith's earlier post. I like Nash a lot, but I just can't justify his cap hit. I feel like trading for him would produce similar results to '94. Yeah we might win a Cup but we could possibly do it with these pieces and avoid handicapping the team for another 20 years.

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02-17-2012, 11:03 PM
  #202
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I really believe this is why an aging Sather is interested in acquiring Nash. And Im not saying he will deal Kreider because i dont think he will. But knowing his salary will hamstring us in a couple years, sather might be going all in for the next two years by acquiring Nash
GMs don't operate by themselves, though. They operate with a sizable staff.

And I believe Jeff Gorton's opinions weigh heavily in the decision making.

Gorton is being groomed as the successor to Sather. Im thoroughly convinced of it, anyway.

Gorton was heavily involved in the free agent signings the last couple of years and was heavily involved in contract negotiating.

That in mind, Gorton also runs the draft with Gordie Clark. So he has a very strong handle on where these prospects and young guys are at.

And if Gorton is in fact being groomed for the position, and he has clout in the decision processes, I don't believe he would vote in favor of any move that could put the team he could inevitably take control of as GM (while Sather remains President) in a bad spot regarding finances, cap situation, and assets.

This is speculation on my part.

I just don't believe making a deal for Nash is a direction the Rangers will go in, especially if the cost in assets is too great.

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02-17-2012, 11:07 PM
  #203
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Getting somewhat back on topic, I agree with Zenith's earlier post. I like Nash a lot, but I just can't justify his cap hit. I feel like trading for him would produce similar results to '94. Yeah we might win a Cup but we could possibly do it with these pieces and avoid handicapping the team for another 20 years.
I agree. A lot.

There is no such things as a guaranteed Cup, either. So, while it IS enticing, you can't make decisions towards a one-and-done type of scenario.

There IS a guarantee of future seasons. And the idea, at least in my mind, is to maintain success at the highest possible level for the longest period of time possible.

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02-17-2012, 11:09 PM
  #204
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02-17-2012, 11:09 PM
  #205
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I know a lot of posters have said that Parise won't be signing with the Rangers (although I don't know why they find it so unlikely.) But obviously if we were able to land him he would only cost cash, which is certainly easier to stomach than dealing players/prospects/picks. Seems to me we could go after Parise hard (assuming he makes it to July 1) by offering him pretty similar money to what Nash is making. If you look at their stats as far as points per game and goals per game over their careers the two are actually very similar (.82ppg ZP, .81ppg RN), although Nash does score at a slightly higher clip (.39gpg ZP, .43gpg RN.) I'm not sure what the market price will be for Parise, but I do wonder if he could be persuaded to sign with us for 7.5M/per structured in such a way as to only cost at most 7M a year against the cap? That's a 10% discount off of Nash, and it costs 0 assets. Obviously that doesn't help us for this playoff run. And yes, we might likely have to deal Dubinsky or similar a year down the road to fit everyone else in...but we could get some high end prospects and picks to maximize our return. Just food for thought.

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02-17-2012, 11:19 PM
  #206
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I know a lot of posters have said that Parise won't be signing with the Rangers (although I don't know why they find it so unlikely.) But obviously if we were able to land him he would only cost cash, which is certainly easier to stomach than dealing players/prospects/picks. Seems to me we could go after Parise hard (assuming he makes it to July 1) by offering him pretty similar money to what Nash is making. If you look at their stats as far as points per game and goals per game over their careers the two are actually very similar (.82ppg ZP, .81ppg RN), although Nash does score at a slightly higher clip (.39gpg ZP, .43gpg RN.) I'm not sure what the market price will be for Parise, but I do wonder if he could be persuaded to sign with us for 7.5M/per structured in such a way as to only cost at most 7M a year against the cap? That's a 10% discount off of Nash, and it costs 0 assets. Obviously that doesn't help us for this playoff run. And yes, we might likely have to deal Dubinsky or similar a year down the road to fit everyone else in...but we could get some high end prospects and picks to maximize our return. Just food for thought.
If we HAD to shell out money for another big/longterm contract, i'd rather stay the course and make a run at Parise than trade for Nash.

But, I don't want either. This team does not need another long term contract. As good as Parise is, it's not a definite he comes here and produces like his self. We've seen it multiple times. I'd rather just stand pat now and make a run at a Bobby Ryan trade in the offseason if the offense fails in the playoffs.

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02-17-2012, 11:21 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I know a lot of posters have said that Parise won't be signing with the Rangers (although I don't know why they find it so unlikely.) But obviously if we were able to land him he would only cost cash, which is certainly easier to stomach than dealing players/prospects/picks. Seems to me we could go after Parise hard (assuming he makes it to July 1) by offering him pretty similar money to what Nash is making. If you look at their stats as far as points per game and goals per game over their careers the two are actually very similar (.82ppg ZP, .81ppg RN), although Nash does score at a slightly higher clip (.39gpg ZP, .43gpg RN.) I'm not sure what the market price will be for Parise, but I do wonder if he could be persuaded to sign with us for 7.5M/per structured in such a way as to only cost at most 7M a year against the cap? That's a 10% discount off of Nash, and it costs 0 assets. Obviously that doesn't help us for this playoff run. And yes, we might likely have to deal Dubinsky or similar a year down the road to fit everyone else in...but we could get some high end prospects and picks to maximize our return. Just food for thought.
Parise is a team-first player. Wherever he goes, I bet he'll take a well-structured contract that will ensure whatever team he plays for has the cap flexibility to contend.

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02-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #208
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Parise is a team-first player. Wherever he goes, I bet he'll take a well-structured contract that will ensure whatever team he plays for has the cap flexibility to contend.
Yeah, instead of 8 mill per, he'll take 7.8.

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02-17-2012, 11:29 PM
  #209
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now that was one sexy goal ...

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02-17-2012, 11:33 PM
  #210
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Yeah. He's a pretty good player. But he's gonna cost a boat load and then there is his cap hit. I'd be lying if I said I'm not tempted, but the costs will out weigh the gain.

It would be one thing were they not coming together so well or they actually had more disposable trade chips.

It's always about fit and this aint it.

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02-18-2012, 12:28 AM
  #211
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I say do it..

Duby, Hopefully trade JT Miller instead of Krieder, Erixon, 1st rd?

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02-18-2012, 12:35 AM
  #212
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I say do it..

Duby, Hopefully trade JT Miller instead of Krieder, Erixon, 1st rd?
I say after the stunt Erixon pulled this past summer, he goes nowhere.

I say Rangers have earned right to go to war together.

Chemistry is far more important and we need cap flexibility after being in hell for past few seasons.

Don't see Torts signing off on trading Dubinsky either.

Dubi is his boy, and if Sather approached him about trading him, Torts would take it personally and feel as if he failed Dubinsky.

Torts would rather work 2 days straight around the clock trying to figure out what exactly it is that is holding Dubinsky back offensively.

A Dubinsky who plays his superior all-around game and is actually scoring, to me , would he one hell of a deadline "acquisition".

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02-18-2012, 01:47 AM
  #213
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When you look down the line the Rangers actually NEED a Nash like player. Who is to say when Gaboriks contract is up the team looks to resign him? He'll be 32-33 at the time and a player with a history of injuries. You can let Gabby walk and address the other needs of retaining our own guys and other depth moves while still building your forward corps around Nash. This is very doable cap wise. People are overreacting.

You can set your self up to win the cup for the next 2 years with Nash, Gaborik and Richards on the team; and after that you can let Gabby walk and Nash will be the replacement up front if your concerns are not being able to resign our own guys.

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02-18-2012, 02:16 AM
  #214
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This is a gamble the Rangers don't need to take. Lots more options during the summer with regards to UFA's and other trade options....

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02-18-2012, 02:19 AM
  #215
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This is a gamble the Rangers don't need to take. Lots more options during the summer with regards to UFA's and other trade options....
what UFAs? theres Parise, and nothing else.

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02-18-2012, 02:45 AM
  #216
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This is a gamble the Rangers don't need to take. Lots more options during the summer with regards to UFA's and other trade options....
yea but they want to win now, they do have a shot this yr based on their play

Also if you subtract Dubi and Wolski and add Nash the salaries even out

Why wait for Parise when ur not guaranteed to get him and its next yr

I would not give up certain players but if the deal was right I think about it for sure

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02-18-2012, 02:48 AM
  #217
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what UFAs? theres Parise, and nothing else.
I think he meant it as a collective, as in free agency and the trade market will give us more options in the summer than we have now. We could always do something like sign Suter and trade Staal in a package for someone like Bobby Ryan.

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02-18-2012, 02:56 AM
  #218
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Isn't breaking the bank for Nash the same kind of "buy championships" mentality that ****ed us over in the first place?

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02-18-2012, 03:00 AM
  #219
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If you could get him for dubi, Miller, Erixon and a 1st it would of Already been done. Get rid of wolski as well and the cap hit matches up. It's a no brainer. I would also like to see Richards get to play with him to see if he can get his game going in the right direction. Having 2 top lines would really put pressure on other teams top dman to try and choose who they will play against. I think if it's only 1 roster guy and a couple prospect it needs to be done. They have dealt with redden and drurys ridiculous contracts and still made it work and this guy can actually play.

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02-18-2012, 03:10 AM
  #220
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As long as the return is not too big I say do it. And Nash will be tradable if we desperately need the cap space. This year is a good time to make a run for the cup.

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02-18-2012, 03:18 AM
  #221
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Isn't breaking the bank for Nash the same kind of "buy championships" mentality that ****ed us over in the first place?
No. What bank are you breaking? Nash is already signed. Your adding a piece to a foundation. Nobody does this trade if it requires numerous roster pieces outside of just Dubi and maybe Sauer. This is a 27 year old player in his prime who has never played with a real center in his career. Gaboriks contract expires in 2 seasons. He'll be 32-33 if the team chooses not to resign him and instead use that money elsewhere -- you still know you have Nash in place. Sather is definitely looking at that aspect as well. I think the timing of acquiring Nash couldn't be any more perfect.

2 year window to make a strong run for the cup with Richy, Nash, and Gabby.

Then in the 3rd year if you can afford Gabby you resign him if not you let him walk and use that money elsewhere while knowing you still have Nash up front as a big game breaker.

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02-18-2012, 03:43 AM
  #222
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No. What bank are you breaking? Nash is already signed. Your adding a piece to a foundation. Nobody does this trade if it requires numerous roster pieces outside of just Dubi and maybe Sauer. This is a 27 year old player in his prime who has never played with a real center in his career. Gaboriks contract expires in 2 seasons. He'll be 32-33 if the team chooses not to resign him and instead use that money elsewhere -- you still know you have Nash in place. Sather is definitely looking at that aspect as well. I think the timing of acquiring Nash couldn't be any more perfect.

2 year window to make a strong run for the cup with Richy, Nash, and Gabby.

Then in the 3rd year if you can afford Gabby you resign him if not you let him walk and use that money elsewhere while knowing you still have Nash up front as a big game breaker.
That contract is really tough to swallow and if the cap goes down without salary rollbacks, then we're extremely ****ed. If Nash were a bit more of a clear-cut gamebreaker it'd be easier to accept, but he's clearly not. That said, if Sather can keep Kreider and roster players other than Dubinsky out of the deal, then it'd be hard to say no. If the contract was $7 million or less, I'd give up Dubinsky, McIlrath, Thomas, and a 1st without reservations. But that contract is just ridiculous.

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02-18-2012, 03:54 AM
  #223
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That contract is really tough to swallow and if the cap goes down without salary rollbacks, then we're extremely ****ed. If Nash were a bit more of a clear-cut gamebreaker it'd be easier to accept, but he's clearly not. That said, if Sather can keep Kreider and roster players other than Dubinsky out of the deal, then it'd be hard to say no. If the contract was $7 million or less, I'd give up Dubinsky, McIlrath, Thomas, and a 1st without reservations. But that contract is just ridiculous.
Gabby as a 4-5 time 30+ goal scorer with health issues was given 7.5 million by the team. Nash is a 6 time 30+ goal scorer w/ no health issues. I dont mind that type of money for players who put up numbers like that consistently. Gabby is off the books in a few years and Nash will replace.

Before that in 2012-13 you don't have to resign Fedotenko, eminger, wolski, woywitka, and bickell. Instead use that cash to reink Del Zotto if he's not traded for Nash.

In 2013-14 you got Anisimov, Stepan ,Hagelin, McDonagh and Sauer. That same year Drurys buyout is off the books and Sauer will probably not be a Ranger if it comes to making room. Mitchell and Prust are also UFA's. Mitchell might not be a MUST signing. Use some of that money to reink Arty, Steps, Hag and Mcdonagh.

I'm certain at worst the cap doesn't drop and stays the same. However you run a good chance for the ceiling to rise at least once in the next 1-3 years.

Finally in 2014-15 Gabby is a UFA. You can either choose to let him walk and spend the money elsewhere or you resign him if you can afford it. He'll be 32 and a player with a history of injuries.

Bottom line is we have come out of stinkers far worse then the possibility of having Nash on this team. And even with that possibility when you really look at it and dig deep it's very doable without giving away our core guys like Chicago was forced to do more or less after their cup. I see a lot of overreaction.

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02-18-2012, 04:11 AM
  #224
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Gabby as a 4-5 time 30+ goal scorer with health issues was given 7.5 million by the team. Nash is a 6 time 30+ goal scorer w/ no health issues. I dont mind that type of money for players who put up numbers like that consistently. Gabby is off the books in a few years and Nash will replace.
Gaborik has put up 620 points in 696 games (.89 ppg). Nash has put up 527 points in 649 games (.81 ppg). I consider Nash to be a definite notch below Gaborik offensively. Nash could always take off playing with Richards, but up to this point Gaborik is clearly better.

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Before that in 2012-13 you don't have to resign Fedotenko, eminger, wolski, woywitka, and bickell. Instead use that cash to reink Del Zotto if he's not traded for Nash.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You'd be ok with dealing Del Zotto for Nash? That's a non-starter as far as I'm concerned.

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In 2013-14 you got Anisimov, Stepan ,Hagelin, McDonagh and Sauer. That same year Drurys buyout is off the books and Sauer will probably not be a Ranger if it comes to making room. Mitchell and Prust are also UFA's. Mitchell might not be a MUST singing. Use some of that money to reink Arty, Steps, Hag and Mcdonagh.

I'm certain at worst the cap doesn't drop and stays the same. However you run a good chance for the ceiling to rise at least once in the next 1-3 years.
Almost every media source is saying the buzz is that the cap is going to go down. I don't know how you can say with certainty that it won't.

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Finally in 2014-15 Gabby is a UFA. You can either choose to let him walk and spend the money elsewhere or you resign him if you can afford it. He'll be 32 and a player with a history of injuries.

Bottom line is we have come out of stinkers far worse then the possibility of having Nash on this team. And even with that possibility when you really look at it and dig deep it's very doable without giving away our core guys like Chicago was forced to do more or less after their cup. I see a lot of overreaction.
Letting Gabby walk at that time is a fair point, however, "we've done worse in the past" doesn't strike me as a great reason to do something. The bottom line is that Sather should only consider taking that contract if he can get the deal absolutely on his terms. That means no Kreider and sure as hell no Del Zotto.

Addendum (this is not directed at HP): I see a lot of people throwing Erixon into this deal. I highly doubt he's even tradeable right now. He just told off Calgary and forced his way to us last summer. It's doubtful any team is going to jump at a chance to add him given how he might react, especially not a team like Columbus.

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02-18-2012, 04:22 AM
  #225
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Gaborik has put up 620 points in 696 games (.89 ppg). Nash has put up 527 points in 649 games (.81 ppg). I consider Nash to be a definite notch below Gaborik offensively. Nash could always take off playing with Richards, but up to this point Gaborik is clearly better.



Whoa, whoa, whoa. You'd be ok with dealing Del Zotto for Nash? That's a non-starter as far as I'm concerned.



Almost every media source is saying the buzz is that the cap is going to go down. I don't know how you can say with certainty that it won't.



Letting Gabby walk at that time is a fair point, however, "we've done worse in the past" doesn't strike me as a great reason to do something. The bottom line is that Sather should only consider taking that contract if he can get the deal absolutely on his terms. That means no Kreider and sure as hell no Del Zotto.

Addendum (this is not directed at HP): I see a lot of people throwing Erixon into this deal. I highly doubt he's even tradeable right now. He just told off Calgary and forced his way to us last summer. It's doubtful any team is going to jump at a chance to add him given how he might react, especially not a team like Columbus.
Gabby has played with better players throughout his career. He's also unable to stay as healthy as Nash has been. Both players have 6 30+ goal seasons on their resume. However, when we gave Gabby his 7.5 million contract he was at the time a 4-5 time 30+ goal scorer. Nash with his 7.8 million cap is currently a 6 time 30+ goal player. Had one season with 27 goals. So you compare those contracts and I don't see a HUGEEE difference.

I see you twisting my words. I didn't say I'd be willing to give up Del Zotto, I said if he's not part of a deal. He has been rumored and that doesn't mean I'm ok with it. I'm opposed to moving Del Zotto or Kreider so it's not cool to assume

The media has claimed the same thing in the past as well only to have the ceiling rise.

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